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  1. #3991
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    I don't mind the idea of mutants making a home country, but I really hate the idea that every mutant lives there and all mutants are welcome.

    Really I don't even want the X-men living there. Leave that for a spin off book. I miss the X-men being superhero that protect a world that hates and fears them and tries to live peacefully with normal humans.
    The mutants of the world who *don't* want to self-deport themselves from the homes and families they were born to and move to Krakoa do need a team of their own. Perhaps there'll be an X-team, in the future, to address the mutants who have chosen not to segregate themselves away from the world, and help them to survive that choice.

    Meanwhile, Krakoa can continue to exist, and be relevant, no less able to function as part of the Marvel Earth than Wakanda or Atlantis or Latveria or Madripoor or Monster Island or Sub-Terra or the Savage Land, a 'fantastic' element on a more or less 'normal' Earth. It doesn't *have* to go the way of Genosha or Avalon. It could just be *one* of several options, a new and lasting development to an Earth that's already got plenty of fantastic exotic locales and features.

  2. #3992
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    The mutants of the world who *don't* want to self-deport themselves from the homes and families they were born to and move to Krakoa do need a team of their own. Perhaps there'll be an X-team, in the future, to address the mutants who have chosen not to segregate themselves away from the world, and help them to survive that choice.

    Meanwhile, Krakoa can continue to exist, and be relevant, no less able to function as part of the Marvel Earth than Wakanda or Atlantis or Latveria or Madripoor or Monster Island or Sub-Terra or the Savage Land, a 'fantastic' element on a more or less 'normal' Earth. It doesn't *have* to go the way of Genosha or Avalon. It could just be *one* of several options, a new and lasting development to an Earth that's already got plenty of fantastic exotic locales and features.
    cant wait for the never before seen sentinel atack that kills most of that metaphorical team

  3. #3993
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    I don't mind the idea of mutants making a home country, but I really hate the idea that every mutant lives there and all mutants are welcome.

    Really I don't even want the X-men living there. Leave that for a spin off book. I miss the X-men being superhero that protect a world that hates and fears them and tries to live peacefully with normal humans.
    Yeah, I cant agree, the x-men were stuck as martyrs and dummies that just expose themselves to constant suffering for basically no level of progression or even basic gratitude, at one point the ilusion that was a good story was gonna crack.
    and they still do all those things, but on a global scale and on an equal footing in terms of power to normal humans.

    the concept of the x-men has grown and evolved beyond a stinky pyromaniac mansion.
    Last edited by Ferro; 02-22-2020 at 09:12 PM.

  4. #3994
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    the concept of the x-men has grown and evolved beyond a stinky pyromaniac mansion.
    Now it's a stinky island full of people that only talk about how great their race is and how much better they are.

    I'd rather read about martyrs that try to make the world better than racists who only care about themselves.

    It just feels like to me that's what the X-men have become. They only care about mutants and how much better mutants are than anyone.

    It doesn't matter if you're a serial killer or a genocidal maniac as long as you're a mutant you're forgiven.

    I miss when the X-men has lives, personalities, and interests beyond simply being mutants.

  5. #3995
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    where were you for utopia? this isnt a new concept, and if you want to read about idiotic martyrs that constantly get kicked in the face, there's other ways for you to get it, or just reread lovely recent eras like austen, bendis, lemire, x-men gold

    if you just liked the x-men as the eternal victims and underdogs well im sorry, you had x-men gold and that was absolute trash, now its time for some evolution, progression and actual quality content.

    also the x-men have accepted their mutant villains since the dawn of time, noting new, noting old there
    Last edited by Ferro; 02-22-2020 at 10:04 PM.

  6. #3996
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    My problem is in DoX Exodus my fave mutant has just turned into a prop.On the one hand I like how he always seems to be the adult in the room,cool calm and collected and every word out of his mouth is weighed.On the other it's strange that Sinister has a subplot,he's key to Krakoa,Apocalypse has arrako children and Outworld plot,Magnus and X have their hands full in the politics.Mystique's plot has thickened.Jean is on Xforce,Shaw and Emma are fighting each other by proxies.Only Exodus has no plot whatsoever.At least if they gave him the character of a doubter about whether their whole idealism can last.That would be interesting.I mean he is centuries old he has seen kingdoms fall.So he could at least be an avenue for the level headed outsider to give wise counsel like how immortality affects a person. There's a lot Hickman can do with him, he could be an envoy to mutants who do not want to be part of Krakoa or at least an ambassador to the UN to always have a Krakoan pulse on world opinion.I feel it's a travesty how he is being used(underused more like)standing in Outworld like some librarian,is this what Exodus has been reduced to?
    Last edited by Rev9; 02-23-2020 at 08:07 AM.

  7. #3997
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    Now it's a stinky island full of people that only talk about how great their race is and how much better they are.

    I'd rather read about martyrs that try to make the world better than racists who only care about themselves.

    It just feels like to me that's what the X-men have become. They only care about mutants and how much better mutants are than anyone.

    It doesn't matter if you're a serial killer or a genocidal maniac as long as you're a mutant you're forgiven.

    I miss when the X-men has lives, personalities, and interests beyond simply being mutants.
    Same here… I miss where the X-men and the mutants in general were neither martyrs nor racists. I don't like them used for radical thesis.

    The X-men had adventures in space, in Savage land, faced villains… They were interested by people in general and didn't make differences between. If they face discrimination, they realized that other people faced discrimination for other reasons. Human's problems were also their problems because they weren't that different: they had feelings, empathy… I remember the look on Ororo's face when she visited this slum in Harlem: sadness and pity.

    Now, it's about navel-gazing and living in a bourgeois society surrounded by your fellow people…
    “Strength is the lot of but a few privileged men; but austere perseverance, harsh and continuous, may be employed by the smallest of us and rarely fails of its purpose, for its silent power grows irresistibly greater with time.” Goethe

  8. #3998
    Mighty Member houndsofluv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    The mutants of the world who *don't* want to self-deport themselves from the homes and families they were born to and move to Krakoa do need a team of their own. Perhaps there'll be an X-team, in the future, to address the mutants who have chosen not to segregate themselves away from the world, and help them to survive that choice.

    Meanwhile, Krakoa can continue to exist, and be relevant, no less able to function as part of the Marvel Earth than Wakanda or Atlantis or Latveria or Madripoor or Monster Island or Sub-Terra or the Savage Land, a 'fantastic' element on a more or less 'normal' Earth. It doesn't *have* to go the way of Genosha or Avalon. It could just be *one* of several options, a new and lasting development to an Earth that's already got plenty of fantastic exotic locales and features.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    Now it's a stinky island full of people that only talk about how great their race is and how much better they are.

    I'd rather read about martyrs that try to make the world better than racists who only care about themselves.

    It just feels like to me that's what the X-men have become. They only care about mutants and how much better mutants are than anyone.

    It doesn't matter if you're a serial killer or a genocidal maniac as long as you're a mutant you're forgiven.

    I miss when the X-men has lives, personalities, and interests beyond simply being mutants.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    Same here… I miss where the X-men and the mutants in general were neither martyrs nor racists. I don't like them used for radical thesis.

    The X-men had adventures in space, in Savage land, faced villains… They were interested by people in general and didn't make differences between. If they face discrimination, they realized that other people faced discrimination for other reasons. Human's problems were also their problems because they weren't that different: they had feelings, empathy… I remember the look on Ororo's face when she visited this slum in Harlem: sadness and pity.

    Now, it's about navel-gazing and living in a bourgeois society surrounded by your fellow people…
    I'm sensing a lot of these critiques are coming from people who aren't reading the books because a lot of the things brought up in these posts has been/is being covered

    team of mutants uncomfortable w/ Krakoa: fallen angels. Sure they operated out of Krakoa but their feelings were made clear, and in the last issue there was a moment where characters expressed very clearly the protecting human lives was as important as protecting mutant lives

    as recently as Wolverine #1 we've seen a discomfort with Krakoa expressed

    space/magic/etc. shenanigans: Hickman's new mutants arc was a fun space-set romp that had nothing to do w/ Krakoa aside from a few refs. none of this supremacy of which you speak. excalibur tackles its outlandish concept pretty similarly

    in X-Force, we've had a couple issues now where the mutant CIA is deployed specifically to help humans, like the people working for the non-profit who were massacred by anti-mutant terrorists and recently domino serving as a bodyguard for respected professor. The only time we've seen the team work solely in the interest of mutants was in the issue where beast was trying to eradicate those plant guys and readers were supposed to react to his actions with skepticism

    In terms of villains being on Krakoa: as the books have progressed we've not only seen characters uncomfortable with this, such as in Wolverine, but also seen th leaders of the nation explicitly state that they do not entirely trust these "former" threats - I think Xavier and Apocalypse had a moment like this after his resurrection in Excalibur and in X-Men #6 Xavier and Magneto continue to hold Mystique's former wrongdoings over her. Plus we've seen that Apocalypse, Mystique, Sinister and Shaw are all scheming against Krakoa/for their own benefit. This is meant to be a grey area that challenges readers to think about why characters are behaving as they are - we are clearly not meant to accept Shaw, Apocalypse, Mystique, etc. as goody-goody x-men now, even Xavier and magneto are not entirely comfortable around them but it is for the image of Krakoa as a paradise for all that they put up with them. As the storyline unfolds and all the plots and agendas intersect we will see these conflicts come to a head - its all in the serial nature of the stories

  9. #3999
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    I don't mind the idea of mutants making a home country, but I really hate the idea that every mutant lives there and all mutants are welcome.

    Really I don't even want the X-men living there. Leave that for a spin off book. I miss the X-men being superhero that protect a world that hates and fears them and tries to live peacefully with normal humans.
    That's been done to death though.

    After a while, them making peaceful co-existence a priority when their lives are in danger makes them look like morons.

  10. #4000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    Same here… I miss where the X-men and the mutants in general were neither martyrs nor racists. I don't like them used for radical thesis.

    The X-men had adventures in space, in Savage land, faced villains… They were interested by people in general and didn't make differences between. If they face discrimination, they realized that other people faced discrimination for other reasons. Human's problems were also their problems because they weren't that different: they had feelings, empathy… I remember the look on Ororo's face when she visited this slum in Harlem: sadness and pity.

    Now, it's about navel-gazing and living in a bourgeois society surrounded by your fellow people…
    read the books cause literally all of that has happened already.

  11. #4001
    BANNED spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    Same here… I miss where the X-men and the mutants in general were neither martyrs nor racists. I don't like them used for radical thesis.

    The X-men had adventures in space, in Savage land, faced villains… They were interested by people in general and didn't make differences between. If they face discrimination, they realized that other people faced discrimination for other reasons. Human's problems were also their problems because they weren't that different: they had feelings, empathy… I remember the look on Ororo's face when she visited this slum in Harlem: sadness and pity.

    Now, it's about navel-gazing and living in a bourgeois society surrounded by your fellow people…
    Now all humans are opressors and X-men doesn't care if they get hurt or screwed up on the proccess.

    Yeah mutants now are at the top of the world and doesn't care who they hurt while there

  12. #4002
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Now all humans are opressors and X-men doesn't care if they get hurt or screwed up on the proccess.

    Yeah mutants now are at the top of the world and doesn't care who they hurt while there
    So heroic of them...and noble...and other things.

  13. #4003
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    no one here claims that they are the patrons of heroism because they arent, they havent been for ages now, they are on a grey area of self love and is much more refreshing than staying in an ugly mansion, cleaning the shoes of biggots and helping with their groceries and get nothing but a slap in the face at best, or sentinels at worst.

    or that godawfull panel of bishop giving a protester his anti mutant sign, couldnt be me, cause peace is a two way road and its not the opressed's job to work for two
    Last edited by Ferro; 02-23-2020 at 08:47 AM.

  14. #4004
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    That's been done to death though.

    After a while, them making peaceful co-existence a priority when their lives are in danger makes them look like morons.
    Yes , you are absolutely right. Total idiots. To me it was like people marching peacefully to the gas chambers while whistling a merry tune. But in this case fighting to protect their executioners at the same time.

    Above all else it became so depressing .I don't read comics to be depressed , there is more than enough suffering in the real world.

  15. #4005
    Militantly Indifferent Kisinith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Now all humans are opressors and X-men doesn't care if they get hurt or screwed up on the proccess.

    Yeah mutants now are at the top of the world and doesn't care who they hurt while there
    Show proof, because this claim is a load of crap. They have been shown throughout HoX/PoX/DoX to take great pains not to harm innocents. Even the not so innocent when it came to the scientists in the Orchis mission. They have consistently show significant peaceful engagement with peaceful humans. The only people the X-Men have been hurting are bigots, soldiers and anti-mutant nut jobs who, in every single case, struck first.

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