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  1. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    Heck yeah. It's particularly annoying when it's someone like Cypher, who has perfectly awesome powers that could make them hugely successful in the real world.

    Thanks to Jean Grey being a telepath *and* a telekinetic, it seems like just being 'just' a telepath is also considered 'weak,' leading to massive changes to Psylocke, and even Emma Frost's secondary mutation.

    And yet 'telepathy' seems to be a catch all for tons of free powers.

    Mind-reading and mental communication, the basics that I'd *expect* from a telepath.
    Memory alteration.
    Astral projection (oh look, there's Scanner and Trance's entire powers!)
    Absorbing new skills and languages from others (oh look, there's both Prodigy and Cypher's entire powers!).
    Instantly teaching new skills and languages to others (and now I'm better at Prodigy and Cypher's powers than they are!).
    Mental switchboards (can you imagine trying to do something like this with vocal communication? Ug, the cross-chatter, stomping all over each other...).
    Body swapping (something Emma had to create a machine to do to Storm, and then later, with Bobby, could just do, on her own).
    Eidetic memory.
    Mind control (oh look, there's Karma's entire power!)
    Emotion control (oh look, there's Empath's entire power!)
    Make people see / hear / perceive things that aren't there (oh look, there's Mastermind's entire power!)
    Make people *not* see / hear / perceive things that *are* there (oh look, if there was a character at Marvel who could just turn invisible, that would be there entire power! Forget me Not?)
    Control people's bodies (Jean could stop someone's heart *telepathically,* so she could control parts of your body *that you couldn't,* and Emily/Synapse does this sort of thing all the time, this was Cerebra's mutant power, in X-Men 2099, and she was limited to a touch range, where the average telepath can do it across a battlefield, or perhaps even across a continent, for the big guns!)
    Psychic tracking.
    Locating people via mental signatures, either to find people during a disaster, or to find a specific person.
    Psychic assaults.
    Mental shields (both for themselves and to grant to others).
    Hijack sensory data, to eavesdrop on what someone is seeing/hearing/etc. in real time.

    Gosh, that's 'weak' all right. Quick, let's make the telepath *also* a telekinetic, or a ninja, or able to turn into diamond! :/
    The issue with telepathy isn't that it's viewed as weak. It's that it's one of the most broken super powers and thus writers have to come up with all kinds of contrivances to negate it. Look how many times we see people with natural immunity ti telepathy or machines that can protect from telepathy. Meaning that any character who solely just has telepathy is screwed once they meet something immune to that power. Jean, Emma and Betsy don't have this issue.

  2. #497
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    I hated Singer making them teachers and filling the school with tons of nobodies. You loose out on the fact that the X-Men are supposed to be a highly efficient action team, not sleepy teachers who can't even fight(which is how they come off in X1 for certain, good thing Logan showed up). Then Morrison brought that to the comics(editorially mandated I am sure), and we've been stuck with these dozens of filler characters since.

    The school part was mostly just a cover for the building, its not like they have people coming in all the time to check on them from the outside. And the most important thing the X-Men learn is HOW TO USE THEIR POWERS. Singer's films have NEVER shown actual training sequences in the Danger Room. NOT ONCE! And no, the ending of Apocalypse doesn't count. X3's version is of course all about Wolverine. First Class did it the best, but there's still a lot of room for improvement. In the O5 era, training sessions in the Danger Room were a consistent thing, and even the new team did it a lot too in the early days. Who cares about pretending to be flatscans?
    All it would take is one visit to this so called "school" to have them under investigation. The comics still use the Danger Room and why doesn't the ending to Apocalypse count?

  3. #498
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nabu View Post
    Also, I loved the Outback Era and I wish X-men had more bases throughout the world and their scope of work was more international than just USA-centered.
    One of the things I actually liked about Morrison's run was the X-Men expanding into the X-Corporation and doing just what you're talking about. It's the logical, obvious evolution of the X-Men as their numbers grow and, especially, once Xavier's identity as a mutant was revealed to the public.

    My preference would be that the X-Men remained a secret organization but with the Xavier Institute opening up campuses around the world. Like a kind of "shadow NGO." X-Men teams posted around the world, ready to find, protect, and recruit new mutants as well as, of course, fight bad guys while the Institute's public face remains that of an obscure scientific research organization.

  4. #499
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    I hated Singer making them teachers and filling the school with tons of nobodies. You loose out on the fact that the X-Men are supposed to be a highly efficient action team, not sleepy teachers who can't even fight(which is how they come off in X1 for certain, good thing Logan showed up). Then Morrison brought that to the comics(editorially mandated I am sure), and we've been stuck with these dozens of filler characters since.

    The school part was mostly just a cover for the building, its not like they have people coming in all the time to check on them from the outside. And the most important thing the X-Men learn is HOW TO USE THEIR POWERS. Singer's films have NEVER shown actual training sequences in the Danger Room. NOT ONCE! And no, the ending of Apocalypse doesn't count. X3's version is of course all about Wolverine. First Class did it the best, but there's still a lot of room for improvement. In the O5 era, training sessions in the Danger Room were a consistent thing, and even the new team did it a lot too in the early days. Who cares about pretending to be flatscans?
    The school concept works best when the X-Men are the teenage STUDENTS, not the teachers. Which is why I sometimes think something like X-Men: Evolution was underrated. It took the idea back to what it was in the O5 days but used a more interesting character combination. Also, having them go to public school part of the time meant they had to actually deal with regular people on a regular basis.

    The idea in general is flawed. Filling the background with no-name students is practically asking for them to be used as sacrificial lambs or cannon fodder. A set-up like New Mutants or Generation X where there is a student team is better but still not perfect. The thing is, not every X-Man should be a teacher. Not all of them are cut out to be teachers nor would they want to be. But if they're just hanging around the school and not doing anything but the fighting part, it seems a little awkward in a "why don't you do anything here?" kind of way.

    I know it's a long shot, but if the X-Men movies were ever rebooted I'd like to see it be a situation where the X-Men are the kids at the school. X-Men Apocalypse came so so close to doing something like that but all the characters in question mostly faded into the background while Apocalypse went on a recruiting drive.

  5. #500
    Mighty Member Valamist's Avatar
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    Not sure if I have read enough X-Men books to really make much of an opinion over all, but...

    * Laura is a better and more interesting character then Logan. Don't get me wrong, I like Logan, but I just prefer Laura...

    * Logan seems wasted outside of the X-books. In books such as X-Force he can have depth and character, but when he is with the Avengers, he just comes across as a mindless killer (For example, Age of Ultron where he never thinks about what killing Hank may do, or Avengers: The Children's Crusade where he seems to just want to kill Wiccan from the moment he sees him!)

    * I really liked the O5 and hope they continue to be apart of the MU for a long while yet.

    * I really am not keen on Havok and do not see why he is so popular... admittedly the only real exposure I have had of him is Uncanny Avengers and his appearance at Northstar's wedding so...

    * I am not sure what I think about Beast either. At times I see him as a happy science loving guy, the next he seems almost... hateful of being a mutant? I dunno. Perhaps I am reading too much into it all. Also, while I can understand his actions in IvX to a certain degree, I really hope him being so chummy with HydraCap is some sort of act...

    * Bobby should have a shot at leading the X-Men, or at least have a more senior position.

    * Having Bobby be secretly gay all these years makes him a more interesting character.

    * Oh, and I like Jubilee being a vampire...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    If anything, being a fan of both X-Men and Inhumans would make things even worse lol.
    I agree. I like both the X-Men and Inhumans for different reasons, but the event was just horrible thing for them both. It was less a story, but a mindless race war. I think the recent push to make the Inhumans more akin to traditional superheros was also a horrible thing too. They have always been best as weird aliens on the edge of the MU, but I digress...
    Last edited by Valamist; 08-04-2017 at 04:48 PM.
    Marvel: - Avengers, Fantastic Four, The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl, Uncanny X-Men, X-23, Old Man Logan, Thor, Captain Marvel, Runaways, West Coast Avengers.
    Image: - Paper Girls.
    Dynamite: - Red Sonja

  6. #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamFTF View Post
    The school concept works best when the X-Men are the teenage STUDENTS, not the teachers. Which is why I sometimes think something like X-Men: Evolution was underrated. It took the idea back to what it was in the O5 days but used a more interesting character combination. Also, having them go to public school part of the time meant they had to actually deal with regular people on a regular basis.

    The idea in general is flawed. Filling the background with no-name students is practically asking for them to be used as sacrificial lambs or cannon fodder. A set-up like New Mutants or Generation X where there is a student team is better but still not perfect. The thing is, not every X-Man should be a teacher. Not all of them are cut out to be teachers nor would they want to be. But if they're just hanging around the school and not doing anything but the fighting part, it seems a little awkward in a "why don't you do anything here?" kind of way.

    I know it's a long shot, but if the X-Men movies were ever rebooted I'd like to see it be a situation where the X-Men are the kids at the school. X-Men Apocalypse came so so close to doing something like that but all the characters in question mostly faded into the background while Apocalypse went on a recruiting drive.
    I think the school angle can still work, it just no longer needs to be the focus.
    Instead make the Xaiver Institute the unofficial headquarters for Mutants, and keep it as the home of the X-men. Have a team of X-men who just fight. Have another team that's there for PR. Another that's teachers/mentors. One that's mutants learning to control their powers, but are too old to be students, and another that are young and would still be students. It would allow for there still to be that school aspect while not needing there to be a bunch of nameless students. And it would explain the fact that most of the X-men we see at the Institute are adults.

  7. #502
    Certified Claremazon-stan Nabu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FUBAR007 View Post
    One of the things I actually liked about Morrison's run was the X-Men expanding into the X-Corporation and doing just what you're talking about. It's the logical, obvious evolution of the X-Men as their numbers grow and, especially, once Xavier's identity as a mutant was revealed to the public.

    My preference would be that the X-Men remained a secret organization but with the Xavier Institute opening up campuses around the world. Like a kind of "shadow NGO." X-Men teams posted around the world, ready to find, protect, and recruit new mutants as well as, of course, fight bad guys while the Institute's public face remains that of an obscure scientific research organization.
    Precisely this. Thank you for expanding on my thoughts and suggesting a brilliant vision which could fit thematically and still be realistic, as far as comic books go. I'd also love to have more X-Men, especially those of telephathic variety, to go into politics, lobbying, or just build and expand the web of allies in the influential socio-economic spheres. I'd totally buy a House of Cards-inspired issue!

  8. #503
    Fantastic Member davetvs's Avatar
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    Rachel, Bishop, the O5 and any other time-displaced character has overstayed their welcome and needs to be sent back to wherever they came from. Cable is the exception because he actually belongs in this timeline. The rest have run their course.

  9. #504

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    Heck yeah. It's particularly annoying when it's someone like Cypher, who has perfectly awesome powers that could make them hugely successful in the real world.

    Thanks to Jean Grey being a telepath *and* a telekinetic, it seems like just being 'just' a telepath is also considered 'weak,' leading to massive changes to Psylocke, and even Emma Frost's secondary mutation.

    And yet 'telepathy' seems to be a catch all for tons of free powers.

    Mind-reading and mental communication, the basics that I'd *expect* from a telepath.
    Memory alteration.
    Astral projection (oh look, there's Scanner and Trance's entire powers!)
    Absorbing new skills and languages from others (oh look, there's both Prodigy and Cypher's entire powers!).
    Instantly teaching new skills and languages to others (and now I'm better at Prodigy and Cypher's powers than they are!).
    Mental switchboards (can you imagine trying to do something like this with vocal communication? Ug, the cross-chatter, stomping all over each other...).
    Body swapping (something Emma had to create a machine to do to Storm, and then later, with Bobby, could just do, on her own).
    Eidetic memory.
    Mind control (oh look, there's Karma's entire power!)
    Emotion control (oh look, there's Empath's entire power!)
    Make people see / hear / perceive things that aren't there (oh look, there's Mastermind's entire power!)
    Make people *not* see / hear / perceive things that *are* there (oh look, if there was a character at Marvel who could just turn invisible, that would be there entire power! Forget me Not?)
    Control people's bodies (Jean could stop someone's heart *telepathically,* so she could control parts of your body *that you couldn't,* and Emily/Synapse does this sort of thing all the time, this was Cerebra's mutant power, in X-Men 2099, and she was limited to a touch range, where the average telepath can do it across a battlefield, or perhaps even across a continent, for the big guns!)
    Psychic tracking.
    Locating people via mental signatures, either to find people during a disaster, or to find a specific person.
    Psychic assaults.
    Mental shields (both for themselves and to grant to others).
    Hijack sensory data, to eavesdrop on what someone is seeing/hearing/etc. in real time.

    Gosh, that's 'weak' all right. Quick, let's make the telepath *also* a telekinetic, or a ninja, or able to turn into diamond! :/
    I write Psylocke Fanfiction and didn't turn her into the McNinja. I took her Telepathy and ran with a natural progression of it.
    Now I don't get paid to write my stories about her. I write them fromlove of the character.
    Which means I've done my research and did even more research.
    Telepathy is literally only limited by the writers inability to be creative, or have it hindered by editorial.

    My Psylocke is built purely as a support Telepath. But to give her a few advantages, I gave her Technopathy, the ability to speak to and control electronics. Why?
    Because Telepathy is going to be an actual Ability humans will have in the real world. It will be based on Electromagnetic signals we'll send from each other using Organic transmitters and receivers. So I studied that.
    Then I gave her an Eidetic memory, to allow her to remember the memories she's read over time. What she does best on a team is LEAD, she's tactics and communications.
    She doesn't need to be a badass in close combat, and can take on a robot or a living being for a short time solo. That's why she's part of a team.

    When she's solo, I focus on the Investigative aspect of Telepathy, using those abilities including Post Cognition to sense the immediate past.
    One of the best examples I've read recently of a woman with a passive ability and yet still badass without being a McNinja is LiveWire from Valiant.




    The KEY?

    Characterization, and the ability to IGNORE the dreaded power creep.
    Is always confused.....

    My Name is Psylocke, "Stabby stabby pew pew!"

    My Psylocke stories at Fanfiction.net (ignore the editing, it's bad on purpose) https://www.fanfiction.net/~tazirai
    My better edited versions on Comicvine. Just check profile and my forum posts in fan fiction section. http://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/tazirai/

  10. #505
    Incredible Member Victorian_Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tazirai View Post
    I write Psylocke Fanfiction and didn't turn her into the McNinja. I took her Telepathy and ran with a natural progression of it.
    Now I don't get paid to write my stories about her. I write them fromlove of the character.
    Which means I've done my research and did even more research.
    Telepathy is literally only limited by the writers inability to be creative, or have it hindered by editorial.

    My Psylocke is built purely as a support Telepath. But to give her a few advantages, I gave her Technopathy, the ability to speak to and control electronics. Why?
    Because Telepathy is going to be an actual Ability humans will have in the real world. It will be based on Electromagnetic signals we'll send from each other using Organic transmitters and receivers. So I studied that.
    Then I gave her an Eidetic memory, to allow her to remember the memories she's read over time. What she does best on a team is LEAD, she's tactics and communications.
    She doesn't need to be a badass in close combat, and can take on a robot or a living being for a short time solo. That's why she's part of a team.

    When she's solo, I focus on the Investigative aspect of Telepathy, using those abilities including Post Cognition to sense the immediate past.
    One of the best examples I've read recently of a woman with a passive ability and yet still badass without being a McNinja is LiveWire from Valiant.




    The KEY?

    Characterization, and the ability to IGNORE the dreaded power creep.
    It's kinda funny cause Jean used those three types of telepathy one time or another but writers seem to ignore it.

  11. #506
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    There are far too many mutants who are considered X-men, it's almost gotten to a point of being watered-down. There needs to be a core group of X-men with 8-10 members max, only use A-list mutants.There can be a secondary X-Factor type book featuring 6-7 B-list mutants. Bring back the classic villains like Apocalypse, Selene, Goblin Queen, early version of Mr Sinister and the Marauders, revamped Hellfire Club and throw in some good old fashion human villains. Having a tight, concise and strip down version of the X-men with only a select few members is just what the franchise needs.

  12. #507
    Peter Scott/Scott Peter SpiderClops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    Heck yeah. It's particularly annoying when it's someone like Cypher, who has perfectly awesome powers that could make them hugely successful in the real world.

    Thanks to Jean Grey being a telepath *and* a telekinetic, it seems like just being 'just' a telepath is also considered 'weak,' leading to massive changes to Psylocke, and even Emma Frost's secondary mutation.

    And yet 'telepathy' seems to be a catch all for tons of free powers.

    Mind-reading and mental communication, the basics that I'd *expect* from a telepath.
    Memory alteration.
    Astral projection (oh look, there's Scanner and Trance's entire powers!)
    Absorbing new skills and languages from others (oh look, there's both Prodigy and Cypher's entire powers!).
    Instantly teaching new skills and languages to others (and now I'm better at Prodigy and Cypher's powers than they are!).
    Mental switchboards (can you imagine trying to do something like this with vocal communication? Ug, the cross-chatter, stomping all over each other...).
    Body swapping (something Emma had to create a machine to do to Storm, and then later, with Bobby, could just do, on her own).
    Eidetic memory.
    Mind control (oh look, there's Karma's entire power!)
    Emotion control (oh look, there's Empath's entire power!)
    Make people see / hear / perceive things that aren't there (oh look, there's Mastermind's entire power!)
    Make people *not* see / hear / perceive things that *are* there (oh look, if there was a character at Marvel who could just turn invisible, that would be there entire power! Forget me Not?)
    Control people's bodies (Jean could stop someone's heart *telepathically,* so she could control parts of your body *that you couldn't,* and Emily/Synapse does this sort of thing all the time, this was Cerebra's mutant power, in X-Men 2099, and she was limited to a touch range, where the average telepath can do it across a battlefield, or perhaps even across a continent, for the big guns!)
    Psychic tracking.
    Locating people via mental signatures, either to find people during a disaster, or to find a specific person.
    Psychic assaults.
    Mental shields (both for themselves and to grant to others).
    Hijack sensory data, to eavesdrop on what someone is seeing/hearing/etc. in real time.

    Gosh, that's 'weak' all right. Quick, let's make the telepath *also* a telekinetic, or a ninja, or able to turn into diamond! :/
    THIS! This is why I said telepathy has become the worst powerset in MU.
    “Indifference and neglect often do much more damage than outright dislike.”
    -Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix

  13. #508
    Extraordinary Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Xavier was a Fraud and not a Mutant.
    Genosha was an Inside Job.
    Adamantium is a Myth created by Canadian Propaganda.
    Morlocks are really Aliens.
    Cyclops isn't dead he's vacationing with Logan, Mar-Vell, Elvis, and JFK in the Savage Land.
    The Government created Mutants as a Distraction.
    Mystique has been President since 69.
    Colossus faked his death to up his art's Value.

    Thought I'd create some Tin Hat Controversial X opinions which could exist in the Marvel Universe

  14. #509
    Peter Scott/Scott Peter SpiderClops's Avatar
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    Mohawk is the stupidest hairstyle for Storm, and pretty much anyone else. It's not cool, it's not edgy, it's not punk. It's just stupid.
    “Indifference and neglect often do much more damage than outright dislike.”
    -Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix

  15. #510

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    All it would take is one visit to this so called "school" to have them under investigation. The comics still use the Danger Room and why doesn't the ending to Apocalypse count?
    Xavier's school was a privately funded facility. They don't seek accreditation from any board or outside source. Why would they submit to any outsiders snooping around. Remember, Xavier would mindwipe whole towns, including police, when recruiting the O5. I doubt he would let anyone interrupt the proceedings.

    And no, standing around looking at a blue screen does not count as an active training sequence.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

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