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  1. #5731
    Militantly Indifferent Kisinith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baxer View Post
    I'm not sure why you are using August? I posted September and Cable was on 84th position, behind Captain America, Catwoman, Batman's Grave.
    Because I was looking at more than just 1 point of data before coming to any sweeping conclusions and the August data tells a very different story than the one you are trying to sell.

    Quote Originally Posted by baxer View Post
    You are right about X-factor #4, but it is inflated by the event. X-factor #3 without event to help was in 79th, a bit better than Cable.
    These two books can recover, of course.
    That also 2 issues in a month also...
    Quote Originally Posted by baxer View Post
    even with a event.
    your original claim was that it was going down in-spite of the event, now its suddenly an excuse? That looks like you're changing the goal posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by baxer View Post
    x-men is not on top 10 since July, usually star writers have to perform a lot better
    Thats only 2 months of data and did you look at what else was there? In August there were 4 Batman titles, The 3 Jokers and Dark Knights Death Metal. Context Matters.

    Quote Originally Posted by baxer View Post
    you are right about not having enough data, but the start seems not great and not hearing good things from retailers
    Thats not evidence, thats anecdotal utterances at best, unverifiable and which retailers? You're local comic shop? Comic stores in New York? California? Europe? Also point of order; the "Start" was HoX/PoX which did really really well.

    Quote Originally Posted by baxer View Post
    Usually Big Two use to cancel books under 20k, but it isn't only about sales. Many books sell worse than this and still going for many reasons: editors like, trade sales...
    Digital Sales, recovering markets and demand as a result of worldwide lockdowns and a global pandemic... Yeah maybe there are other considerations.
    There is also the fact that you are making judgements on the overall success of the line by judging only its weakest selling books. Your argument says "Oh look these two books are underperforming (based upon criteria that I don't fully understand and that predates the pandemic) therefore the whole thing is a failure."

    Quote Originally Posted by baxer View Post
    Nice things that x-men sales are really bad, even with a event.
    In point of fact there is no significant evidence that the overall line or Hickman or his "Hickminions" are in any danger at all. Maybe one or two of the books are on the chopping block, but so what? Thats like arguing that Batman is in danger because Batman and the Outsiders is ranked at 126 and Red Hood Outlaw is at 136.

  2. #5732
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kisinith View Post
    Because I was looking at more than just 1 point of data before coming to any sweeping conclusions and the August data tells a very different story than the one you are trying to sell.


    That also 2 issues in a month also... your original claim was that it was going down in-spite of the event, now its suddenly an excuse? That looks like you're changing the goal posts.


    Thats only 2 months of data and did you look at what else was there? In August there were 4 Batman titles, The 3 Jokers and Dark Knights Death Metal. Context Matters.


    Thats not evidence, thats anecdotal utterances at best, unverifiable and which retailers? You're local comic shop? Comic stores in New York? California? Europe? Also point of order; the "Start" was HoX/PoX which did really really well.


    Digital Sales, recovering markets and demand as a result of worldwide lockdowns and a global pandemic... Yeah maybe there are other considerations.
    There is also the fact that you are making judgements on the overall success of the line by judging only its weakest selling books. Your argument says "Oh look these two books are underperforming (based upon criteria that I don't fully understand and that predates the pandemic) therefore the whole thing is a failure."


    In point of fact there is no significant evidence that the overall line or Hickman or his "Hickminions" are in any danger at all. Maybe one or two of the books are on the chopping block, but so what? Thats like arguing that Batman is in danger because Batman and the Outsiders is ranked at 126 and Red Hood Outlaw is at 136.
    We are in the middle an event inside an event! all of the X-men are in a never ending event right now and it’s insane that everyone is just fine with it. I should not have to read 12 ongoing twice monthly books just to understand what’s going on with the X-men. How is this ok?

  3. #5733
    Extraordinary Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantor View Post
    We are in the middle an event inside an event! all of the X-men are in a never ending event right now and it’s insane that everyone is just fine with it. I should not have to read 12 ongoing twice monthly books just to understand what’s going on with the X-men. How is this ok?
    Yep, this thing is a bloated mess.

    As far as sales go, y’all correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t that website only show what’s shipped to LCS’s and not what’s actually sold?
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  4. #5734
    Ultimate Member Fokken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baxer View Post
    This is freaking dumb, why would somebody trade LGBT characters, for a dumb hint/hint of a poly amorous that never develops?

    Nice things that x-men sales are really bad, even with a event.
    Pardon but when/where did I state anything about trading LGBT characters?

    Additionally, this is literally the Unpopular/Controversial opinion thread, and I simply shared mine on the Scott/Jean/Logan dynamic.

  5. #5735
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    Yep, this thing is a bloated mess.

    As far as sales go, y’all correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t that website only show what’s shipped to LCS’s and not what’s actually sold?
    That used to be the case, they now include the dollar value to give an idea of where comics rank in terms of 'actually sold'

  6. #5736
    Militantly Indifferent Kisinith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantor View Post
    We are in the middle an event inside an event! all of the X-men are in a never ending event right now and it’s insane that everyone is just fine with it. I should not have to read 12 ongoing twice monthly books just to understand what’s going on with the X-men. How is this ok?
    You mean like Fall of the Mutants (9 issues across the whole X-line) , Extinction Agenda (9 issues across the whole X-line) Age of Apocalypse (something crazy like 34 issues), Mutant Massacre (9 issues across the whole X-line) or X-Cutioner's Song (12 issues across the whole X-line) or the many other times they've done this...

  7. #5737
    Ultimate Member Fokken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantor View Post
    We are in the middle an event inside an event! all of the X-men are in a never ending event right now and it’s insane that everyone is just fine with it. I should not have to read 12 ongoing twice monthly books just to understand what’s going on with the X-men. How is this ok?
    Respectfully, if anyone doesn't wish to follow/purchase every title involved but wish to also "understand what's going on" we have endless internet sources that will provide details/spoilers/information on anything you've chosen to ignore.

    We are communicating right now on such a source.
    I don't read Wolverine. Thank you fellow CBR-ians for your collective content.

    Not every title is essential, but this also a business that is often known for encouraging readers to dive into back issues and/or satellite titles for additional info/background.
    Last edited by Fokken; 11-03-2020 at 05:58 AM.

  8. #5738
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    I do wish I had known to ignore the last Excalibur issue beforehand. At least since I buy digital I didn't waste any trees reading that issue, just time.

  9. #5739
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Nevermind...
    Last edited by Devaishwarya; 11-03-2020 at 06:41 AM.
    My Summer rain. My rooftop in Japan. My quiet in the storm. *cries* Al Ewing is GOD...Praise His name! Uplift Him in song! Glorify His works!

  10. #5740
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    Not every title is essential, but this also a business that is often known for encouraging readers to dive into back issues and/or satellite titles for additional info/background.
    Ditto. I am loving this new event, but not enough to buy Cable or Wolverine books, and yet the story seems perfectly cogent without them.

    And I don't begrudge the existence of a few titles I don't fancy. Not everything has to be written specifically for *me* after all.
    Last edited by Sutekh; 11-03-2020 at 06:42 AM.

  11. #5741
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantor View Post
    We are in the middle an event inside an event! all of the X-men are in a never ending event right now and it’s insane that everyone is just fine with it. I should not have to read 12 ongoing twice monthly books just to understand what’s going on with the X-men. How is this ok?
    Put simply...

    We are living in a world where there is relatively easy access to pretty detailed breakdown/discussion of every single one of the issues in question.

    Politely...

    If you want to "Just Understand What's Going..." on?

    You have most likely never been in a better position to be able to in the course of comic book publication. What you are trying to lay out as "Insanity..." is almost a complete non-issue.

  12. #5742
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    Ditto. I am loving this new event, but not enough to buy Cable or Wolverine books, and yet the story seems perfectly cogent without them.
    Exactatiously.
    I'm not buying Wolverine, Cable and X-Factor (it's actually 9 books all told, now) and yet still you, me and many others manage to understand quite clearly what's going on with the X-Men. The issue is not with the number of books published....
    My Summer rain. My rooftop in Japan. My quiet in the storm. *cries* Al Ewing is GOD...Praise His name! Uplift Him in song! Glorify His works!

  13. #5743
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kisinith View Post
    You mean like Fall of the Mutants (9 issues across the whole X-line) , Extinction Agenda (9 issues across the whole X-line) Age of Apocalypse (something crazy like 34 issues), Mutant Massacre (9 issues across the whole X-line) or X-Cutioner's Song (12 issues across the whole X-line) or the many other times they've done this...
    9 issues, XOS has 22 issues + 2 preludes so it is 24 parts. That is more than double os the events listed.

    Age of Apocalypse and Onslaught are giant, but any x-men comic on 90s sold 100k

    Quote Originally Posted by Hizashi View Post
    Yep, this thing is a bloated mess.

    As far as sales go, y’all correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t that website only show what’s shipped to LCS’s and not what’s actually sold?
    Yes, they are orders

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisinith View Post
    Because I was looking at more than just 1 point of data before coming to any sweeping conclusions and the August data tells a very different story than the one you are trying to sell.


    That also 2 issues in a month also... your original claim was that it was going down in-spite of the event, now its suddenly an excuse? That looks like you're changing the goal posts.


    Thats only 2 months of data and did you look at what else was there? In August there were 4 Batman titles, The 3 Jokers and Dark Knights Death Metal. Context Matters.


    Thats not evidence, thats anecdotal utterances at best, unverifiable and which retailers? You're local comic shop? Comic stores in New York? California? Europe? Also point of order; the "Start" was HoX/PoX which did really really well.


    Digital Sales, recovering markets and demand as a result of worldwide lockdowns and a global pandemic... Yeah maybe there are other considerations.
    There is also the fact that you are making judgements on the overall success of the line by judging only its weakest selling books. Your argument says "Oh look these two books are underperforming (based upon criteria that I don't fully understand and that predates the pandemic) therefore the whole thing is a failure."


    In point of fact there is no significant evidence that the overall line or Hickman or his "Hickminions" are in any danger at all. Maybe one or two of the books are on the chopping block, but so what? Thats like arguing that Batman is in danger because Batman and the Outsiders is ranked at 126 and Red Hood Outlaw is at 136.
    I'm not looking on two books underperforming, I'm looking on almost all the line underperforming. People were pointing out that ressurrection performed even better or the same. Hickman x-men is the only one getting a good performance that could be better

    August doesn't matter as September sales fell. For cancelations they look forward and not backward, that is how sales department work: They do sales projections.

    "That also 2 issues in a month also... your original claim was that it was going down in-spite of the event, now its suddenly an excuse? That looks like you're changing the goal posts. "

    A event can inflate numbers, but it still be low. First issue of XOS pre-ordered 140k and the second issue on X-factor was 60k. It lost 80k issues from first to 2nd issue.
    After events numbers return to what they were before the event
    Last edited by baxer; 11-03-2020 at 07:37 AM.

  14. #5744
    Incredible Member frostedemma's Avatar
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    I don't understand why people always bring up sales as if that's an actual qualifier to gauge the worth of a comic. Print media has been on a downward slop since the the start of the 21st century and we're in the middle of a global pandemic where money is tight for a lot of people so it's not really a shocker that sales aren't currently at their highest peak...

  15. #5745
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    Quote Originally Posted by frostedemma View Post
    I don't understand why people always bring up sales as if that's an actual qualifier to gauge the worth of a comic. Print media has been on a downward slop since the the start of the 21st century and we're in the middle of a global pandemic where money is tight for a lot of people so it's not really a shocker that sales aren't currently at their highest peak...
    THIS! i buy digital
    "Everything doesn't have to be about fear. There's room in our line of work for hope, too"- Stephanie Brown, Batgirl Vol 3 #5

    "Quit? Like hell I will"- Bette Kane, Beast Boy #3

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