Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[Havok83]

Storm, Cyclops, Jean and Wolverine are the Core Four of the X-men. There is something so right about seeing any combination of them plus 1-3 more characters. They form the most recognizable backbone of the team

[Gigantor]

Just a reminder that none of us have any real sales data. The online numbers are estimates from a third party. No one has online sales info and websites don’t always use sales to make their ‘best selling’ lists. There can be many other factors involved in those algorithms. That is all, carry on...

Actually there is one piece of data that while anecdotal has been consistent with comic book surveys since the 90s and that is when a buyer is asked why they are purchasing a comic book. Only about 10% say it’s to read it. The majority either get it for collecting or for displaying. So yes X-men does sell 100k units a month or around there but maybe only 10k actually care about what happens in the story. It’s why the push to digital is so slow, the audience for these books as entertainment is actually not very big

[baxer]

Actually there is one piece of data that while anecdotal has been consistent with comic book surveys since the 90s and that is when a buyer is asked why they are purchasing a comic book. Only about 10% say it’s to read it. The majority either get it for collecting or for displaying. So yes X-men does sell 100k units a month or around there but maybe only 10k actually care about what happens in the story. It’s why the push to digital is so slow, the audience for these books as entertainment is actually not very big

There isn't much funny and value collecting in digital, it is better to read old runs in the unlimited format. If you want to get autographed it has to be phisical. You can't get variant covers on digital

I think today it is probably 50% to read, specualator market is very smaller compared to 90s

[Gigantor]

There isn't much funny and value collecting in digital, it is better to read old runs in the unlimited format. If you want to get autographed it has to be phisical. You can't get variant covers on digital

I think today it is probably 50% to read, specualator market is very smaller compared to 90s

Ah you misunderstand me I said the surveys have been consistent SINCE the 90s stores still do them and the 90% buying and 10% reading has remained consistent throughout the 2010s. Now again I say these come from stores and there owners so it’s not hard data but I have spoken to shop owners and they say it’s still mostly a collectors market.

[From The Shadows]

Storm, Cyclops, Jean and Wolverine are the Core Four of the X-men. There is something so right about seeing any combination of them plus 1-3 more characters. They form the most recognizable backbone of the team

That's perhaps my favorite Storm costume and maybe my fave for Cyclops - close around there. Jean in her classic Pheonix costume and baby Iceman. Aaand Biker Logan.

[KC]

Bringing back the original 5 X-Men was a good idea at the time and that era started off well and with a lot of promise.

[Kingdom X]

Bringing back the original 5 X-Men was a good idea at the time and that era started off well and with a lot of promise.

Part of me always had an issue with existing characters taking up double the screen time and getting character development that could have been given to the actual students. At the same time, those initial issues were really promising and it was a nice inversion of the usual X-Men time travel tropes.

[Grunty]

Ah you misunderstand me I said the surveys have been consistent SINCE the 90s stores still do them and the 90% buying and 10% reading has remained consistent throughout the 2010s. Now again I say these come from stores and there owners so it’s not hard data but I have spoken to shop owners and they say it’s still mostly a collectors market.

It's no secret that the modern single issue system (highly priced for 20 pages, full of advertisments, only found in specialized shops, requiring knowledge of continuity to really get a feel for the story) is repulsing a lot of people with casual interest in the super hero comics or first time readers who want to read some stories related to the super heros they know from cartoons, toys or movies.

Leaving only dedicated buyers who invested themself into this system or become adjusted to it, as those who buy single issues and this group is not only relatively small but also having little to no growth. While individual series sales can vary the overall number of single issues in general has remained static over decades.

Stories of this dedicated group being in turn largely made up of people who don't care about the stories and instead only look for arbitrary collectors value of books fits into the other stories told about the issues of the current super hero comic market.

Which makes it no suprise that many comic selling book stores only have trade paperbacks and many dedicated comic shops put the trades into a better position to see by the people who step in. Because allready wrapped up stories or runs are a lot more welcoming to people who just want to check out some super hero comics without the hassle of single issues or having to wait months for the next part of the story to come out.

Leaving it to trades to actualy give a good impression on how well runs or stories are recieved by a general actualy story reading audience, but that would also involve having to track sales of trades over months, rather than looking at the sales number after one month and deeming something a failure or a success with the "readership".

[Ambaryerno]

Bringing back the original 5 X-Men was a good idea at the time and that era started off well and with a lot of promise.

The problem wasn't so much the idea as it was the execution. Especially the fact that what SHOULD have been restricted to a single event or miniseries ended up dragged out for several years.

[KC]

The problem wasn't so much the idea as it was the execution. Especially the fact that what SHOULD have been restricted to a single event or miniseries ended up dragged out for several years.

I don't think making it an event would have been a good idea especially as the original 5 returning came off the back of a big event involving the X-Men and a miniseries would have just made it look like a flash in the pan that was here for a couple of months and then gone just as quickly. the O5 returning was meant to be a status quo for the X-Men and I think giving the O5 their own book was a good way to show that.

[Omega Alpha]

I don't think making it an event would have been a good idea especially as the original 5 returning came off the back of a big event involving the X-Men and a miniseries would have just made it look like a flash in the pan that was here for a couple of months and then gone just as quickly. the O5 returning was meant to be a status quo for the X-Men and I think giving the O5 their own book was a good way to show that.

But that is just a stupid premise for a long form series- teenage superheroes look at how things a few years later. OK, great. So what? They have to go back to the past eventually and forget all about it, and every single minute they are around they risk BILLIONS of lives.

Another issue is that Bendis had to make it seem like the 05 actually came out of the 60's to make the contrast work, because, due to the sliding timescale, things didn't change that much- sure you would have a lot of shock if you came from 2007-2008 to the present, but it's not like you're coming out of 1945 or the middle-ages- you know about the Internet, social media, the wars of Afghanistan and Iraq, reality shows, the presence of cell phones in our every day lives, TV, you already know who most of the major political figures are around the world (even if the Orange Menace becoming president would have a big shock), etc.

[KC]

But that is just a stupid premise for a long form series- teenage superheroes look at how things a few years later. OK, great. So what? They have to go back to the past eventually and forget all about it, and every single minute they are around they risk BILLIONS of lives.

Another issue is that Bendis had to make it seem like the 05 actually came out of the 60's to make the contrast work, because, due to the sliding timescale, things didn't change that much- sure you would have a lot of shock if you came from 2007-2008 to the present, but it's not like you're coming out of 1945 or the middle-ages- you know about the Internet, social media, the wars of Afghanistan and Iraq, reality shows, the presence of cell phones in our every day lives, TV, you already know who most of the major political figures are around the world (even if the Orange Menace becoming president would have a big shock), etc.

I don't think it is a stupid premise for a long-form series. A lot had happened to the X-Men since the time of the O5 especially at the time the series was coming out and the series was about the 05 reacting to their future and how messed up it had become and the X-Men from the present reacting to that and seeing just how much had changed for the better and for worse. And I think that was best explored in a long-form way of two ongoing X-Men books that are tied in some way to the O5 coming back.

[Kisinith]

Bringing forward the 05 wasn't itself a bad idea, and for a while it was actually pretty good. Both All New and Uncanny under Bendis (If you could deal with Bendis-isms) were solidly entertaining titles for a while. The problem is, that kind of story needs a full, well-defined arc with a planned end. It fails if it gets left open ended, which is what happened then the longer it goes on the stupider it got.

[Omega Alpha]

Bringing forward the 05 wasn't itself a bad idea, and for a while it was actually pretty good. Both All New and Uncanny under Bendis (If you could deal with Bendis-isms) were solidly entertaining titles for a while. The problem is, that kind of story needs a full, well-defined arc with a planned end. It fails if it gets left open ended, which is what happened then the longer it goes on the stupider it got.

Exactly. Again, every second they are in the present they risk billions of lives. If you don't have a well defined plan on what to do with them and where it ends, then you just make them and every other character look stupid and selfish.

Most importantly, it's a symptom of lack of imagination-if you're bringing characters from the past to react that stuff that happened in the (relatively) more recent past, then you're looking backwards, rather than forward. Ask yourself if Hickman, Morrison or Claremont in his heyday would bother with a plot point like this, and the problem becomes obvious.

[KC]

Exactly. Again, every second they are in the present they risk billions of lives. If you don't have a well defined plan on what to do with them and where it ends, then you just make them and every other character look stupid and selfish.

Most importantly, it's a symptom of lack of imagination-if you're bringing characters from the past to react that stuff that happened in the (relatively) more recent past, then you're looking backwards, rather than forward. Ask yourself if Hickman, Morrison or Claremont in his heyday would bother with a plot point like this, and the problem becomes obvious.

There is nothing wrong with looking backwards. Especially if it is used to look forward and question where characters are when compared to who they were and what they will be. Due to the sliding time scale, a lot has happened to all the X-Men in the time of the original 5 to after Avengers vs X-Men (and this is especially true for the 05 X-Men) and it was a good way for the X-Men to look at themselves and grow from that.

It started off well like this but they didn't have a larger plan and it fell apart. But the start and how they executed it was good and had a lot of potential.