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  1. #5911
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    Quote Originally Posted by LogosPundit View Post
    There have been some terrible X-crossovers in the past, but X of Swords is unquestionably the worst. I felt like I was reading someone's plot point checklist rather than an actual story with weight and meaning. As far as I'm concerned, Jonathan Hickman is a half-talented hack who doesn't understand his own story. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact that Storm almost caused an international incident to claim a sword whose purpose was, ultimately, to be used in a manner no different than any other polished, reflective sword by any idiot who's watched Clash of the Titans. Doug Ramsey is now in love with and married to someone he hadn't known until five minutes ago just because he can't understand her? And how exactly did refusing to yield in a one-on-one duel turn into an all-out war? Apocalypse's children were supposed to be his most powerful Horsemen ever, yet two of them were defeated by mutants who didn't even have their powers at the time? I didn't have high expectations for this run, but I expected better than this.
    Storm is a buffoon, no way you can be a Krakoan diplomat after what she did.To think you can kill 'death' kind of says it all.Instead of finding out if he is actually killable ,she was busy waltzing with him ,to prove how unafraid she is of the name... The event started off strong but the middle was really bad, the end was good up till the point Saturnyne turned Amenth's face/mask into an Egyptian fly swatter..that is just mind blowing if she could do that then Amenth ain't that big of a dog is it? Why need the tournament ,if she could do that to such a powerful entity? She was under no threat from it..obviously some may say Amenth was weakened when it couldn't control Apoc fair enough ,but if Genesis had agency to remove the mask and do so in Stasis in view of Sat9, why not act then? Saturnyne was ready to tear the entire world and realms all to try and win a married man's heart? Wow
    Last edited by Rev9; 11-26-2020 at 12:49 PM.

  2. #5912
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    A no-killing rule makes no sense for the X-Men. Any team that has the likes of Wolverine, X-23, Bishop, Cable, Emma Frost, Feral, Psylocke or Mystique on it clearly has no issue with lethal force.

  3. #5913
    Mighty Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    That Kurt issue with the Crucible confused me, because it came across less how he felt about literally voting on it (I'm not sure if we ever found out how he voted on that issue) and more like he suddenly came across the concept. The council as a whole feels like the Illuminati 2.0, only with less attention paid to them and with even less scruples. Jean leaving should be a bid deal, except we've seen her do nothing and have no idea if she actually contributed to anything or even be any kind of voice of reason. Its just one of a couple dozen plot points being dropped and ignored for months on end. I'm on the team of calling it bad writing, because it mistakes moral complexity for situations that frankly aren't that complex, and further mistakes those situations as ones that can carry a story. The council just aren't interesting, and are more interesting as villains than protagonists. But since nobody is acting like themselves, seeing them come to conclusions like 'this is pretty sketchy/evil' feels like they're realizing something that was obvious for readers since day 1. And that's not a story I'm interested in spending money to follow for months, if not years.

    Everything about this relaunch has felt like a colossal waste of time. Its all just spinning its wheels and pretending that's the same as buildup or progress. Until Moira, Mystique and Xavier are addressed its nigh impossible to say how much of this is supposed to be taken seriously. This whole thing could get wiped away just as quickly and easily as it appeared.

  4. #5914
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrSurf View Post
    There is really no need to just wholesale copy and paste your posts between threads. Folks'll see it.
    Thanks for the heads up. Didn't think something posted in one thread would necessarily be seen in another related one.

  5. #5915
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    Storm is a buffoon, no way you can be a Krakoan diplomat after what she did.To think you can kill 'death' kind of says it all.Instead of finding out if he is actually killable ,she was busy waltzing with him ,to prove how unafraid she is of the name...

    The sad thing is Storm is portrayed as a buffoon by today's writers who neither understand the character specifically, nor how to correctly write warrior/leaders in general.

    The event started off strong but the middle was really bad, the end was good up till the point Saturnyne turned Amenth's face/mask into an Egyptian fly swatter..that is just mind blowing if she could do that then Amenth ain't that big of a dog is it? Why need the tournament ,if she could do that to such a powerful entity? She was under no threat from it..obviously some may say Amenth was weakened when it couldn't control Apoc fair enough ,but if Genesis had agency to remove the mask and do so in Stasis in view of Sat9, why not act then? Saturnyne was ready to tear the entire world and realms all to try and win a married man's heart? Wow
    I disagree. No part of this event was good. The beginning was far too predictable. I have a hard time believing someone as old and wise as Apocalypse couldn't see that he was going to be betrayed. Worse, the idea that someone considered a master strategist like him didn't take better precautions is mind-blowing. Excalibur showed that he took great pains to make sure an omega-level reality-altering mutant was installed on the throne of one of the kingdoms of Otherworld, but where was the ultimate payoff for that in the story? They keep going on and on about how being a mutant makes them superior to humans, but at every turn, they kept making obvious strategic, tactical, and even basic historical blunders that no half-competent human leader would make. What kind of idiot doesn't think to pass on the knowledge of how to maintain or rebuild the structures you put in place to protect society? If what Genesis and Summoner said about the history of Arakko is true then that means those "superior" people never heard of the concept of writing. The middle was indeed absolutely terrible but the end was some of the most contrived unnecessary nonsense I've ever seen, much like Empyre. Hickman's white pages have gone on and on about the importance of cultivating omega-level mutants, enhanced combat techniques, and conjoined power sets, yet when we get the perfect moment to see some of these ideas in action such as the arrival of the X-Men to the final battlefield with their new space station, instead, we get Hickman's stupid rip off of Lord of the Rings: Return of the King. Hell, the final sword duel pitted two of the oldest, most powerful mutants against each other and yet neither of them even used their powers during the duel! What's the point of reading X-Men comics if the characters aren't even shown using their powers?

  6. #5916
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LogosPundit View Post
    I disagree. No part of this event was good. The beginning was far too predictable. I have a hard time believing someone as old and wise as Apocalypse couldn't see that he was going to be betrayed. Worse, the idea that someone considered a master strategist like him didn't take better precautions is mind-blowing. Excalibur showed that he took great pains to make sure an omega-level reality-altering mutant was installed on the throne of one of the kingdoms of Otherworld, but where was the ultimate payoff for that in the story? They keep going on and on about how being a mutant makes them superior to humans, but at every turn, they kept making obvious strategic, tactical, and even basic historical blunders that no half-competent human leader would make. What kind of idiot doesn't think to pass on the knowledge of how to maintain or rebuild the structures you put in place to protect society? If what Genesis and Summoner said about the history of Arakko is true then that means those "superior" people never heard of the concept of writing. The middle was indeed absolutely terrible but the end was some of the most contrived unnecessary nonsense I've ever seen, much like Empyre. Hickman's white pages have gone on and on about the importance of cultivating omega-level mutants, enhanced combat techniques, and conjoined power sets, yet when we get the perfect moment to see some of these ideas in action such as the arrival of the X-Men to the final battlefield with their new space station, instead, we get Hickman's stupid rip off of Lord of the Rings: Return of the King. Hell, the final sword duel pitted two of the oldest, most powerful mutants against each other and yet neither of them even used their powers during the duel! What's the point of reading X-Men comics if the characters aren't even shown using their powers?
    Absolutely none!!!
    You are right...we should ALL stop reading every current X-Men comic, immediately! And we should ALL burn our x-books from HoX to XoS to show just how serious we are.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa and Arakko, FOREVER!!!

  7. #5917
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    so since that other thread got closed, I guess this is the closest one to fit this topic on how do you guys think will be the X-men books will be going forward?

    well on the topic of the X-books we have currently ongoing, I can see Marauders and Cable ending at some point, maybe even soon, at least before the others I believe. I think the Marauders group will still exist but I don't see there being much big plots left for them since at some point they should have gotten all/most in the places that are keeping their mutants and Shaw seems to be dealt with soon. Cable unless the original comes back, I don't think it'll be that hot for most readers and he seems to be likely to play a prominent role for SWORD.

    meanwhile the books I can see that are going to last for quite a long time, maybe even until Hickman's run is over, are X-men, Excalibur, X-force, Hellions and X-factor. X-men for obvious reasons, flagship book and can do pretty much anything and go in any direction. If it weren't for the event id have said Excalibur would be ending soon too after they'll confront Saturnyne but now we've got 7 Otherworld realms to be checking out. X-force probably isn't gonna run out of dealing with different groups of humans trying to mess with Krakoa even after the current one is dealt with, along with this kind of book usually lasting. Hellions is turning out to be quite a hit and can really shuffle around its members at some point and has a lot of potential development for the characters here. X-factor is gonna be relevant for having to deal with constant mutant deaths and the Mojo arc we seem to be in has me belief they have potential to be also going through Otherworld.

    then for Wolverine and New Mutants, those books I can see going for quite a while but also end soon. Wolverine has his popularity but his fame has waned a bit and there's the X-force book to do some of his stories/arcs. New Mutants I can see them just ending to replace for another book, like maybe a New X-men or Generation X, to deal with a different group of teen mutants.

  8. #5918
    Astonishing Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LogosPundit View Post
    I disagree. No part of this event was good. The beginning was far too predictable. I have a hard time believing someone as old and wise as Apocalypse couldn't see that he was going to be betrayed. Worse, the idea that someone considered a master strategist like him didn't take better precautions is mind-blowing. Excalibur showed that he took great pains to make sure an omega-level reality-altering mutant was installed on the throne of one of the kingdoms of Otherworld, but where was the ultimate payoff for that in the story? They keep going on and on about how being a mutant makes them superior to humans, but at every turn, they kept making obvious strategic, tactical, and even basic historical blunders that no half-competent human leader would make. What kind of idiot doesn't think to pass on the knowledge of how to maintain or rebuild the structures you put in place to protect society? If what Genesis and Summoner said about the history of Arakko is true then that means those "superior" people never heard of the concept of writing. The middle was indeed absolutely terrible but the end was some of the most contrived unnecessary nonsense I've ever seen, much like Empyre. Hickman's white pages have gone on and on about the importance of cultivating omega-level mutants, enhanced combat techniques, and conjoined power sets, yet when we get the perfect moment to see some of these ideas in action such as the arrival of the X-Men to the final battlefield with their new space station, instead, we get Hickman's stupid rip off of Lord of the Rings: Return of the King. Hell, the final sword duel pitted two of the oldest, most powerful mutants against each other and yet neither of them even used their powers during the duel! What's the point of reading X-Men comics if the characters aren't even shown using their powers?
    I haven't read a majority of the event, but what spoilers I've seen, the issues of X-Men that I still picked up and other books that I leafed through at my LCS, and posts on here have me thinking you are on the right track.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  9. #5919
    Astonishing Member Hizashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    Absolutely none!!!
    You are right...we should ALL stop reading every current X-Men comic, immediately! And we should ALL burn our x-books from HoX to XoS to show just how serious we are.
    It's not unreasonable to expect superpowered characters to use those powers in the context of combat.
    Does it need doing?
    Yes.
    Then it will be done.

  10. #5920
    Astonishing Member cranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    A no-killing rule makes no sense for the X-Men. Any team that has the likes of Wolverine, X-23, Bishop, Cable, Emma Frost, Feral, Psylocke or Mystique on it clearly has no issue with lethal force.
    Didn't this only become a 'rule' because Storm lectured Wolverine and Cyclops? As is, it was really just writers trying to make those two edgy and he other one a moral role model. Other than Cannonball not liking killing in the recent X-Force run, I don't really remember this being something mentioned.

  11. #5921
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    Personally i think all straight clones should be connected to the same "id" and have an overwhelming desire to protect the original or closet to if still alive as an instinctual natural preservation instinct as in anything created from a diluted sample can never hope to be as good as the original. Clones should be aware of the splice of their id.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  12. #5922

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    Id-Ego-Superego(Freud) isn't the same theory/concept as 'anima'(Jung). If anything, each clone would have their own idiosyncratic id, specific to their own bodies/experiences, and they might share one transcendent super ego. But Freud was just a phallus obsessed cokehead, so I wouldn't think too hard on it.
    Last edited by yogaflame; 11-30-2020 at 09:38 PM.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  13. #5923
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    Quote Originally Posted by cranger View Post
    Didn't this only become a 'rule' because Storm lectured Wolverine and Cyclops? As is, it was really just writers trying to make those two edgy and he other one a moral role model. Other than Cannonball not liking killing in the recent X-Force run, I don't really remember this being something mentioned.
    Storm tried to shoot Viper in X-Treme X-Men and was stopped by Bishop. Logan also stopped Rachel from killing Selene... by stabbing her in the gut. It comes up from time to time.

  14. #5924
    Mighty Member Frobisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Storm tried to shoot Viper in X-Treme X-Men and was stopped by Bishop. Logan also stopped Rachel from killing Selene... by stabbing her in the gut. It comes up from time to time.
    Almost certainly the worst and least justifiable thing Logan ever did.

  15. #5925
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Storm tried to shoot Viper in X-Treme X-Men and was stopped by Bishop. Logan also stopped Rachel from killing Selene... by stabbing her in the gut. It comes up from time to time.
    One of the strangest acts Wolverine has ever done: Selene was living by killing other people. It would have deserved more than uttering a well-learned sentence… and hurting Rachel, of course.

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