Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[whitecrown]

I think it's very clear that most of the hate towards Hank the past few years is mainly because he deigned to have a life outside of the X-Men and apparently that's unacceptable here.

[Havok83]

Most of that history didn't materialize until the 2000s which is what established that he goes around casually brainwashing his students and erasing events out of existence. There wasn't really any precedent for that besides the Dark Xavier we briefly saw in Claremont's run, Fatal Attraction, and Onslaught, and most of those events dealt primarily with Magneto and Xavier's psychic breakdowns. The MCP story seems pretty irrelevant considering it seems completely forgotten and for good reason, it's a terrible retcon and one I would have expected to see in the likes of Deadly Genesis.

Keep in mind that Magneto also committed mass murders in Morrison's Run until editorial decided that it was way too extreme and OOC so they retconned that completely. Strange how this happened around the same time they were retconning Xavier's past with Danger and Deadly Genesis but the 2000s were all about seeming "dark."

The MCP story isnt a retcon; its a follow up to a 60s story. It hasnt been referenced repeatedly bc its very specific to Beast's origins and unlike Scott, thats not a well that needs to be constantly revisited

I think it's very clear that most of the hate towards Hank the past few years is mainly because he deigned to have a life outside of the X-Men and apparently that's unacceptable here.

No bc he had a life outside the X-men for a long time in the 70s and 80s, which was well looked back upon. He is hated on here bc of how hypocritical and dark in the past decade or so. That has nothing to do with him outside the X-men. Within the X-franchise, he's been a d--k with little accountability. Most characters eventually change but he changed for the worse. He used to be fun but he got too serious and depressing which doesnt make for an enjoyable character read. There have been several opportunities to bring back the fun loving Beast but its usualy fleeting and the writers double down with the unlikeable version as we are seeing in X-Force

[sunofdarkchild]

I think it's very clear that most of the hate towards Hank the past few years is mainly because he deigned to have a life outside of the X-Men and apparently that's unacceptable here.

He left the X-Men to join the Avengers before the All New team started. No one started hating on beast until decades later when he started being uber-judgmental and hypocritical. No one cares who else has been on the Avengers, Defenders, gone off to live in in Shiar, joined Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends, ect. It's crap like lying to the 05 to make them come to the future with him and scapegoating Colossus with a giant show-trial without ever taking responsibility for his actions that makes people hate Hank.

[Adam-X]

He's a surprise take - Adam is the best of the "Summers"

Shocking - given my user name, amirite?

[Will Evans]

Hank really needs someone to bounce off of. Like a Trish Tilby or Simon Williams. Or old school Iceman.

He needs to be less of a stick in the mud and more fun. But he may be too old for that now.

I can’t think of anyone current that would be a good match for him, minus bringing back old-school-616 Changeling with new Morph personality.

[whitecrown]

The MCP story isnt a retcon; its a follow up to a 60s story. It hasnt been referenced repeatedly bc its very specific to Beast's origins and unlike Scott, thats not a well that needs to be constantly revisited
No bc he had a life outside the X-men for a long time in the 70s and 80s, which was well looked back upon. He is hated on here bc of how hypocritical and dark in the past decade or so. That has nothing to do with him outside the X-men. Within the X-franchise, he's been a d--k with little accountability. Most characters eventually change but he changed for the worse. He used to be fun but he got too serious and depressing which doesnt make for an enjoyable character read. There have been several opportunities to bring back the fun loving Beast but its usualy fleeting and the writers double down with the unlikeable version as we are seeing in X-Force

He left the X-Men to join the Avengers before the All New team started. No one started hating on beast until decades later when he started being uber-judgmental and hypocritical. No one cares who else has been on the Avengers, Defenders, gone off to live in in Shiar, joined Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends, ect. It's crap like lying to the 05 to make them come to the future with him and scapegoating Colossus with a giant show-trial without ever taking responsibility for his actions that makes people hate Hank.

It is a retcon when it changes a previously existing story so that now Xavier didn't erase people's memories of Beast, he went as far as literally wiping Beast's identity away from his family and friends. It's definitely a retcon when Beast is upset about Xavier's actions in that MCP story and there's clearly some ill will but there was never any indication of that in any story prior, let alone in the 60s. Iceman and Jean's origins have been revisited (even though Bobby's origin in particularly wouldn't be characterized as super interesting) and there wasn't any major retcon to either of their stories (besides Jean being depicted as not joining the X-Men on their first mission). They could easily have referenced that story with Hank but I'm willing to bet that most writers aren't even familiar with that story and if they are, they've left it forgotten for good reason. X-Men: First Class or X-Men: Season One could also have brought that back but neither story did.

X-Fans are different now than they were in the 70s especially when the X-Men weren't even a popular book. Back then, more fans associated Beast as an Avenger than as an X-Man since Avengers was the more popular book. That's obviously not the status quo anymore since the 80s and especially 90s. Beast was getting flack from fans here as far back as Fraction's run because apparently King Cyclops is infallible and that was before any of the time travel or Inhuman stuff. Wolverine got the same flack for daring to break away from Cyclops' dictatorship and mutant cult of Utopia. I am Team Logan and Hank anyday.

[Omega Alpha]

It is a retcon when it changes a previously existing story so that now Xavier didn't erase people's memories of Beast, he went as far as literally wiping Beast's identity away from his family and friends. It's definitely a retcon when Beast is upset about Xavier's actions in that MCP story and there's clearly some ill will but there was never any indication of that in any story prior, let alone in the 60s. Iceman and Jean's origins have been revisited (even though Bobby's origin in particularly wouldn't be characterized as super interesting) and there wasn't any major retcon to either of their stories (besides Jean being depicted as not joining the X-Men on their first mission). They could easily have referenced that story with Hank but I'm willing to bet that most writers aren't even familiar with that story and if they are, they've left it forgotten for good reason. X-Men: First Class or X-Men: Season One could also have brought that back but neither story did.

X-Fans are different now than they were in the 70s especially when the X-Men weren't even a popular book. Back then, more fans associated Beast as an Avenger than as an X-Man since Avengers was the more popular book. That's obviously not the status quo anymore since the 80s and especially 90s. Beast was getting flack from fans here as far back as Fraction's run because apparently King Cyclops is infallible and that was before any of the time travel or Inhuman stuff. Wolverine got the same flack for daring to break away from Cyclops' dictatorship and mutant cult of Utopia. I am Team Logan and Hank anyday.

Ah, so the "X-Men fans hate Beast because he left" blatant lie didn't work, so you came out as yet another Cyclops hater that supports anyone that opposes him for any reason? OK, then.

[whitecrown]

Ah, so the "X-Men fans hate Beast because he left" blatant lie didn't work, so you came out as yet another Cyclops hater that supports anyone that opposes him for any reason? OK, then.

And you're one of his staunch defenders who thinks Wrongclops was always in the right? Two can play it that way.

It's true though about Beast or any other X-Man who defected from Cyke's regime and since Hank to this day has not sworn his allegiance to Cyke, he is still outright hated here. Wanda Maximoff isn't even an X-Man but she gets the same treatment. The same applied to any Marvel character who didn't bow down to Wrongclops like Captain America, Medusa and the Inhumans, Captain Marvel, etc. But the "X" related characters tend to get even more flack like it's a betrayal of sorts. I support Hank and Logan because I agreed with their actions and views whereas I didn't agree with Wrongclops.

[Havok83]

X-Fans are different now than they were in the 70s especially when the X-Men weren't even a popular book. Back then, more fans associated Beast as an Avenger than as an X-Man since Avengers was the more popular book. That's obviously not the status quo anymore since the 80s and especially 90s. Beast was getting flack from fans here as far back as Fraction's run because apparently King Cyclops is infallible and that was before any of the time travel or Inhuman stuff. Wolverine got the same flack for daring to break away from Cyclops' dictatorship and mutant cult of Utopia. I am Team Logan and Hank anyday.

Your statement doesnt make sense bc people didnt hate Storm for joining the Fantastic Four, Psylocke joining the Exiles, Kitty joining the Guardians of the Galaxy, Cyclops joining the Champions, or Cable, Rogue, Sunfire, and many others for joining the Avengers. Beast is hated for his own hypocrisy and questionable actions as an X-man

And you're one of his staunch defenders who thinks Wrongclops was always in the right? Two can play it that way.

It's true though about Beast or any other X-Man who defected from Cyke's regime and since Hank to this day has not sworn his allegiance to Cyke, he is still outright hated here. Wanda Maximoff isn't even an X-Man but she gets the same treatment. The same applied to any Marvel character who didn't bow down to Wrongclops like Captain America, Medusa and the Inhumans, Captain Marvel, etc. But the "X" related characters tend to get even more flack like it's a betrayal of sorts. I support Hank and Logan because I agreed with their actions and views whereas I didn't agree with Wrongclops.

This has nothing to do with Cyclops. To my knowledge they havent even interacted since 2015. Beast is despicable on his own merits

[whitecrown]

Your statement doesnt make sense bc people didnt hate Storm for joining the Fantastic Four, Psylocke joining the Exiles, Kitty joining the Guardians of the Galaxy, Cyclops joining the Champions, or Cable, Rogue, Sunfire, and many others for joining the Avengers. Beast is hated for his own hypocrisy and questionable actions as an X-man



This has nothing to do with Cyclops. To my knowledge they havent even interacted since 2015. Beast is despicable on his own merits

Storm didn't get much flack for joining the Avengers because it was a marketing stunt for a handful of issues and then she returned to the X-Men for the first half of AvX. She'd have gotten a very different reception had she sided with Logan and Hank and the Avengers from the get-go which is frankly what I thought was going to happen since Marvel had her join the Avengers right before AvX. The Exiles were still considered X-Books. Kitty joined the GOTG after she sided with Cyke's team and the All-New X-Men leaving the school which is why she didn't get much hate since in the fans' eyes, she was validating Cyclops. Teen Cyke got lots of flack from the very beginning for trying to distance himself from his older version. Rogue actually did get flack from X-Fans for leaving the X-Books but most of the hate was directed at writers rather than the character herself from what I remember, but I could be wrong about that and maybe she was attacked personally for leaving the team. Her situation was more akin to Storm in the 2000s when nobody blamed Storm for leaving the X-Men for Wakanda and the FF because it was editorially mandated. Uncanny Avengers did get a lot of flack, namely Havok and Wolverine. The former was hated for not aligning with his brother and acquiescing to Captain America which was viewed as a betrayal. In fact, I think it can be said that the hate for Havok even eclipsed the hate for Beast during this time. X-Fans already hated Logan for Schism and AvX so this was nothing new for him. Rogue didn't get as much undue hate here because X-Fans were pleased with how she treated Wanda since they've been pretty vocal about wanting to burn Wanda at the stake from the very beginning. Most Wanda fans I know feel very unsafe in the X-Boards with how their character is treated. I didn't follow Cable when he joined the UAs so don't know how he was treated.

Has Beast really not interacted with Cyclops at all since his return? Good, Hank is better off.

[Odd Rödney]

Chris Claremont should never have come back after the '80s.

This I agree with. I know there is some love for the X-Treme X-Men years but it wasn't for me.

[whitecrown]

Cyclops is better off dead for now. Bendis poisoned the well there, and made a disproportionate amount of all things X-Men directly revolve or be influenced by the manpain and depression of one - single - character. We all hated it when Wolverine was everywhere, but in most of his appearances he was a cameo artist. Cyclops somehow managed to overshadow an entire line whilst only appearing in 1 book regularly. It isn't, isn't healthy and stagnates any hope of growth for the franchise.

Gambit is...really not very good, and likely better off as an occasional-guest-appearances guy than a regular on any title.


Chris Claremont should never have come back after the '80s.

I don't really hate Beast. Just another Bendis victim in the end.

The Hellfire Club would make sense as villains if they were humans, a sort of Oxbridge gentlemens' club aiming to drag the world back to old-fashioned (and super racist) values. As mutants, they're just the Brotherhood in dandy outfits.

I agree with a lot of this.

1000% agree with your thoughts about Cyclops. Wolverine got so much flack for overtaking the X-Men in media like the movies and TV shows but in the comics, he's really just there. The X-Men in second half of the 2000s and the first half of the 2010s revolved entirely around Cyclops to the point that everyone who wasn't one of his flunkies was relegated to wallpaper. He's really not even that interesting of a character to revolve around imo. The X-Men seemed like they were starting to grow in a new direction after he was finally killed off but they didn't even hide the fact that he was coming right back and this current era feels like the Fraction era where Cyclops is at the head of everything...again.

I think Gambit is just okay but heavily overrated and I never felt he needed to be a permanent X-Man.

I've never heard of that take on the Hellfire Club before (besides the Hellfire Kids) but it definitely makes way more sense than what we got. Especially since Sebastian Shaw was masquerading as a human during Project Wideawake with the Sentinels which never made much sense to me, since past history has shown that the Sentinels can't be controlled and that Shaw would immediately be outed as a mutant. His character would make more sense if he wasn't a human or the Hellfire Club from the Classic X-Men backstory that was composed of anti-mutant human bigots.

Just don't agree with the take on CC. Imo, he should never have left, especially since Jim Lee ended up leaving not too long after him anyway.

[Rang10]

And you're one of his staunch defenders who thinks Wrongclops was always in the right? Two can play it that way.

It's true though about Beast or any other X-Man who defected from Cyke's regime and since Hank to this day has not sworn his allegiance to Cyke, he is still outright hated here. Wanda Maximoff isn't even an X-Man but she gets the same treatment. The same applied to any Marvel character who didn't bow down to Wrongclops like Captain America, Medusa and the Inhumans, Captain Marvel, etc. But the "X" related characters tend to get even more flack like it's a betrayal of sorts. I support Hank and Logan because I agreed with their actions and views whereas I didn't agree with Wrongclops.

I think there is a trend that no character can be against Cyclops. Scott isn't always right,, not everyone gonna buy what he was selling

[whitecrown]

I think there is a trend that no character can be against Cyclops. Scott isn't always right,, not everyone gonna buy what he was selling

That's been very characteristic of the X-Men and the fans for the longest time now and it's been a very toxic environment online. I really thought with Cyclops dead, the franchise could move onto a better direction, preferably with Ororo and Jean at the helm, but X-Men Disassembled was really just a brief interlude to make room for Hickman's run which has restored the status quo of the 2000s for the worse. We need more diverse and female writers.

[Kingdom X]

And you're one of his staunch defenders who thinks Wrongclops was always in the right? Two can play it that way.

It's true though about Beast or any other X-Man who defected from Cyke's regime and since Hank to this day has not sworn his allegiance to Cyke, he is still outright hated here. Wanda Maximoff isn't even an X-Man but she gets the same treatment. The same applied to any Marvel character who didn't bow down to Wrongclops like Captain America, Medusa and the Inhumans, Captain Marvel, etc. But the "X" related characters tend to get even more flack like it's a betrayal of sorts. I support Hank and Logan because I agreed with their actions and views whereas I didn't agree with Wrongclops.

Y'know Hank is currently leading a mutant CIA where he betrays his friends and gets innocent civilians killed like it's nothing? Stuff like that is why people don't like him anymore. Also I don't know why you keep saying "but this happened after 2000", as if that discredits a story. It's been two decades, you don't just win an argument because you didn't like or appreciate certain stories.

Believe me, I know a lot of X-Men modern stories aren't great. For example, I love Storm but unfortunately her not-so-great leadership during the Inhuman era is canon now, and that's simply something I have to deal with.

Edit: Totally agree with you about the franchise needing more diverse and female writers.