Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[Agent Z]

He should also apologize to Wanda for literally saying he wanted to burn her at the stake for M-Day. Where was this when his sexually assaulting, horse-killing, terrorist girlfriend later actually does commit genocide? What a massive hypocrite yet the fans eat this behavior right up.

I knew you had good taste when you brought up your SW views! Luke in TLJ vs Mando is exactly what I was referring to because of that double standard with toxic masculinity. Male fans were literally shedding tears because their power fantasy was finally fulfilled onscreen for them with Luke in Mando, whereas apparently anybody who ships Reylo or cried over Ben Solo's death is weak and not a real Star Wars fan. It's all right to bully and harass female SW fans in their eyes but the second anybody dissed them for their emotional outbursts over Luke, they literally complained online and demanded a public apology from Lucasfilm. I never realized how toxic Luke stans were until the last few years, such as claiming they hated Rey, not because she was a woman, but because she wasn't a Skywalker. Yet, when Leia suddenly beat Luke in a training session in the flashback in TROS, when George Lucas confirmed that he planned on revealing Leia was the real Chosen One, and when a new canon book had Yoda state that he wanted to train Leia and not Luke, the Luke stans showed their true colors and went after Leia as well. Leia's a Skywalker so there's no excuse here that she isn't of the same bloodline like Rey for them to get upset about, which means the only common denominator is the fact that they were just angry that a woman upstaged Luke, which they flat out admit to.

Cyclops fans are exactly alike and the hypocrisy of his writers, the ones who live vicariously through him, is living proof. Just like Star Wars is not allowed to expand beyond the Skywalkers, specifically Luke, the X-Men are not allowed to grow outside of Cyclops, a discount Captain America without any of the heart or the soul that Cap has.

Reylo fans weren't the ones being bullied, they were the ones doing the bullying.

Also, no one is living vicariously through Cyclops. Unless you think two failed marriages, being a fugitive and having more than half your friends turn against you is a power fantasy. You're confusing Cyclops with Logan.

[whitecrown]

That's pure non-sense. People keep complaining that Cyclops had a lot focus during the Utopia/post-Messiah Complex character, but he was the leader of the X-men, during a time where they were at war and constant risk of annihilation, who the hell was supposed to get a lot of most focus there? Some obscure D-lister? Was, I don't know, Dazzler, Colossus or Sunfire supposed to become the leader instead? And even then, Wolverine had a lot more focus than him, appearing in the main book, and being the lead character in X-force and his own solo. God forbid Cyclops getting a lot of focus, what's next? Captain America getting a lot of focus on the Avengers? Reed Richards getting a lot of focus on F4? Crazy talk!

Mind you, even during that era, Wolverine and the X-men when started was supposed to be the flagship and main book of the franchise- it's just that Gillen's book was and sold better than it, and any other at Marvel, which is not something they were expecting.

And it's bullshit that Cyclops had to leave the book and move on, like Claremont wanted. The reason Claremont wanted him to leave because Storm is his pet character (in his later years, to the point of near obsession) and he wanted her to lead the team, so much he had Cyclops marrying someone that looked like a clone of his dead girlfriend shortly after meeting her, with no one thinking there was anything wrong with that.

Also, right now, Cyclops doesn't even appear in half the issues in the only book he appears and is supposed to be the lead character, this idea he dominates the franchise is a blatant lie.

He was not the only leader of the X-Men but every other credible leader was dead or shafted to focus on him. Even Captain America has stepped down plenty of times and let other characters lead the Avengers instead of him (such as Monica Rambeau or Havok in Uncanny Avengers) which isn't something I could ever see occurring with Cyke around as the writers must always have him in the leading role.

UXM has always been historically the flagship book so I'm not surprised that it sold better, especially when the primary cast of UXM from the last few years was basically transplanted to this book minus Wolverine. Wolverine and the X-Men comes across as a Wolverine spin-off title just going by the name.

Claremont was upset that he had been forced to kill off Jean so Maddie was his way of giving Scott a happy ending, which I guess was more plausible in comics than it would be in the real world. Except by the time Claremont did this, it wasn't long before Jean was coming back and he had already made his peace with the status quo by then so that was another upheaval. Imo the mistake was not incorporating Maddie into Jean's return in FF 286 and X-Factor 1, rather than waiting it out for so long. Kurt Busiek had the whole concept of Jean in the cocoon projecting herself as Phoenix and Dark Phoenix, so they could have established Maddie as another psychic projection.

Read what you wrote. Emma was not his girlfriend when she killed the Inhumans. He was not around to react to what she did bc he was dead. Technically he already went through those vehement emotions about her when it came to that mess when he was a teenager. Jean helped him move past his anger towards her

Wanda was not his gf either (thankfully so she has better taste) but he had no issue branding her. So why wouldn't he do the same for someone he actually was involved with, especially when she performed those actions in his name? And regardless of whether they were together or not, she was his right-hand (or I should say left-hand) for years prior to his death, both when they were together and not. When he came back, he should have addressed it but he didn't so that's a blindspot there. And young Scott is not adult Scott as fans made abundant clearly on here when they used to go after young Scott for forswearing his older version.

Yet oddly, Claremont never showed signs of writing his favorites out of the book and into retirement. He tends to use the same batch, especially Storm, whenever he returns to the books, to diminishing returns.

Writing Scott out of the books, at least the way he did, never made any sense. It would have made far more sense for him to become headmaster and teacher of the New Mutants following Xavier's departure, that way he wouldn't be able to be full time field leader and Storm could step up there. Even if he wanted to keep the reformed Magneto as headmaster stuff, he and Scott could co-lead the school and there is a LOT of potential drama there. X-Factor, ditching his wife and son and the literal demonization of Maddie were all terrible, but the creation of Madelyn was a terrible idea in the first place and got the ball rolling on harming Scott's character. Which Claremont irrationally held against Scott when he had his share of the blame of damaging him, and didn't use his position to mitigate the damage and instead made it worse.

He lost all interest in Cyclops after Jean's return. Which is also why he wanted to split up Scott and Jean and pair Jean off with Logan in the 90s, which is what he sorta did in X-Men Forever. However, he did keep Scott around in X-Men Forever and I'm guessing that if he didn't include him in other books, like X-Treme X-Men, it's probably also because other writers claimed him already. However, I think his O5 favorites were clearly Jean and Hank by the 2000s.

He was also trying to retire Colossus before the Muir Island Saga but he was editorially mandated to bring him back, despite Peter's amnesia, so there's another example.

Scott's entire identity hinged upon the X-Men and Jean. It makes sense that after losing one, he'd try and reform himself without the other but we all know how that failed. He's never been Headmaster material (even Logan performed that role better) since his primary role was field leader of an active X-Men team, not teacher. Claremont had been building to Magneto's reformation since UXM 150 and the purpose was always for him to try and adopt Xavier's dream and see if it was a possible alternative to his own ideology. I don't know exactly when it was a done deal that Jean was coming back and the O5 would be reunited in X-Factor, but Claremont shoehorned Maddie's pregnancy right towards the end so I can't help but wonder if he did that on purpose because of Jean's return. Especially considering it's only a few issues before she gives birth, so really that should have been axed since it only makes Scott look like more of a cad.

[Havok83]

Wanda was not his gf either (thankfully so she has better taste) but he had no issue branding her. So why wouldn't he do the same for someone he actually was involved with, especially when she performed those actions in his name? And regardless of whether they were together or not, she was his right-hand (or I should say left-hand) for years prior to his death, both when they were together and not. When he came back, he should have addressed it but he didn't so that's a blindspot there. And young Scott is not adult Scott as fans made abundant clearly on here when they used to go after young Scott for forswearing his older version.
d.

A young Scott is still Scott as we learned in Extermination, he has all of those memories. Chronoligically IvX happened close to 25 years ago for him and he ALREADY addressed it and went through those emotions towards Emma. It would make no sense for him to now bring it up and hate her for it. Its not relevant. There was a whole 6-8 month gap between UXM and HOX where alot of things were addressed off panel for the sake of moving the franchise forward. Emma's issues with all the X-men happened there. Its not necesary to harp on that

[whitecrown]

Reylo fans weren't the ones being bullied, they were the ones doing the bullying.

Also, no one is living vicariously through Cyclops. Unless you think two failed marriages, being a fugitive and having more than half your friends turn against you is a power fantasy. You're confusing Cyclops with Logan.

Lol think what you want. Reylos are primarily women and especially POC women and Star Wars is infamous for harassing female fans, actresses and other creatives involved. Are you going to deny the harassment of Krystina Arielle, who was attacked solely on the basis of being a Black woman put in charge of a Star Wars project? It's not a coincidence that most of these male fanboys have never had an issue with male inverses of Reylo (namely Luke and Mara Jade or shipping Cal with the Second Sister) and some of them have flat out admitted they wouldn't have an issue with a gender-flipped Reylo. At the same time, most of the Anti-Reylos have right-wing ties and gone after any female character that threatens them, some for just existing. Besides real life cases like Krystina Arielle or Kathleen Kennedy, there's the characters like Rose or Holdo. It's even more obvious in the case of Reylos considering they're targeted for being a predominantly female fandom and so many SW "fans" love to gatekeep and claim that the ST has tried to "feminize" the franchise by turning it into space Twilight and how the female fans need to leave Star Wars alone and give it back to them. When Ben Shapiro of all people flat out says that Star Wars is geared towards males, you know there's a causal link. But keep spouting your propaganda since that's the narrative you prefer.

[whitecrown]

A young Scott is still Scott as we learned in Extermination, he has all of those memories. Chronoligically IvX happened close to 25 years ago for him and he ALREADY addressed it and went through those emotions towards Emma. It would make no sense for him to now bring it up and hate her for it. Its not relevant.

If we can get a blatant retcon story in the 90s about Beast's origin, which nobody asked for, (an example I bring up since you feel the need to keep shoving that down my threat every other post), we can get a story addressing Cyclops' double standard and blatant hypocrisy on how he treated a fake blonde he shacked up with versus Wanda Maximoff. He owes her an apology just like his supporters owe the Wanda fandom an apology.

[Omega Alpha]

If we can get a blatant retcon story in the 90s about Beast's origin, which nobody asked for, (an example I bring up since you feel the need to keep shoving that down my threat every other post), we can get a story addressing Cyclops' double standard and blatant hypocrisy on how he treated a fake blonde he shacked up with versus Wanda Maximoff. He owes her an apology just like his supporters owe the Wanda fandom an apology.

More non-sense. Wanda caused a genocide and was still protected by the Avengers. The same guys who tried to lock him up just for Xavier- which he, mind you, still accepted until people in his prison were murdered just to get to him. Meanwhile, Emma was fighting a war against the Inhumans they started, and were once again committing a genocide, without doing anything to stop it.

[Havok83]

If we can get a blatant retcon story in the 90s about Beast's origin, which nobody asked for, (an example I bring up since you feel the need to keep shoving that down my threat every other post), we can get a story addressing Cyclops' double standard and blatant hypocrisy on how he treated a fake blonde he shacked up with versus Wanda Maximoff. He owes her an apology just like his supporters owe the Wanda fandom an apology.

But Im not championing for them to revisit the Beast origin story (BTW, it happened in the 80s). That was merely brought on as an example of Xavier's dubious ways throughout history and its not mentioned every other post. You just brought it back up and you are ignoring the context

You think you deserve an apology (assuming you include yourself part of that Wanda fandom)? Haha....

[TheDeadSpace]

He was not the only leader of the X-Men but every other credible leader was dead or shafted to focus on him. Even Captain America has stepped down plenty of times and let other characters lead the Avengers instead of him (such as Monica Rambeau or Havok in Uncanny Avengers) which isn't something I could ever see occurring with Cyke around as the writers must always have him in the leading role.

UXM has always been historically the flagship book so I'm not surprised that it sold better, especially when the primary cast of UXM from the last few years was basically transplanted to this book minus Wolverine. Wolverine and the X-Men comes across as a Wolverine spin-off title just going by the name.

Claremont was upset that he had been forced to kill off Jean so Maddie was his way of giving Scott a happy ending, which I guess was more plausible in comics than it would be in the real world. Except by the time Claremont did this, it wasn't long before Jean was coming back and he had already made his peace with the status quo by then so that was another upheaval. Imo the mistake was not incorporating Maddie into Jean's return in FF 286 and X-Factor 1, rather than waiting it out for so long. Kurt Busiek had the whole concept of Jean in the cocoon projecting herself as Phoenix and Dark Phoenix, so they could have established Maddie as another psychic projection.


Wanda was not his gf either (thankfully so she has better taste) but he had no issue branding her. So why wouldn't he do the same for someone he actually was involved with, especially when she performed those actions in his name? And regardless of whether they were together or not, she was his right-hand (or I should say left-hand) for years prior to his death, both when they were together and not. When he came back, he should have addressed it but he didn't so that's a blindspot there. And young Scott is not adult Scott as fans made abundant clearly on here when they used to go after young Scott for forswearing his older version.



He lost all interest in Cyclops after Jean's return. Which is also why he wanted to split up Scott and Jean and pair Jean off with Logan in the 90s, which is what he sorta did in X-Men Forever. However, he did keep Scott around in X-Men Forever and I'm guessing that if he didn't include him in other books, like X-Treme X-Men, it's probably also because other writers claimed him already. However, I think his O5 favorites were clearly Jean and Hank by the 2000s.

He was also trying to retire Colossus before the Muir Island Saga but he was editorially mandated to bring him back, despite Peter's amnesia, so there's another example.

Scott's entire identity hinged upon the X-Men and Jean. It makes sense that after losing one, he'd try and reform himself without the other but we all know how that failed. He's never been Headmaster material (even Logan performed that role better) since his primary role was field leader of an active X-Men team, not teacher. Claremont had been building to Magneto's reformation since UXM 150 and the purpose was always for him to try and adopt Xavier's dream and see if it was a possible alternative to his own ideology. I don't know exactly when it was a done deal that Jean was coming back and the O5 would be reunited in X-Factor, but Claremont shoehorned Maddie's pregnancy right towards the end so I can't help but wonder if he did that on purpose because of Jean's return. Especially considering it's only a few issues before she gives birth, so really that should have been axed since it only makes Scott look like more of a cad.

Is the problem with the story focus because of the character or the decisions of the writers? It seems like the story they wanted to tell was about Cyclops at the time. Considering the father/son bond of Xavier and Cyclops, it makes sense considering the direction the story was going to go. You can't force writers to do something they don't want. He also has stepped down. Sometimes begrudgingly, but he has.

Emma was his only ally for a long time and his ex-gf. It makes sense he would forgive Emma over others more easily. Part of the issue was that he was dead and wasn't around. Why would he condemn Emma for something he didn't witness firsthand? People have biases. Besides, when she attempted to rekindle their love, he declined.

As for Claremont, he just hates the character to an extreme degree. He started writing him out the books for whatever reason, only to hate him later. He's admitted this openly and continues to make an effort to take jabs at him. I wouldn't necessarily take his opinion/direction on the character to heart.

[Kingdom X]

If we can get a blatant retcon story in the 90s about Beast's origin, which nobody asked for, (an example I bring up since you feel the need to keep shoving that down my threat every other post), we can get a story addressing Cyclops' double standard and blatant hypocrisy on how he treated a fake blonde he shacked up with versus Wanda Maximoff. He owes her an apology just like his supporters owe the Wanda fandom an apology.

What in the world? I’ll agree that Wanda wasn’t done right in HoM and a lot of the hate from fans is unnecessary, but you want him to apologize to the woman who ruined all their lives for close to a decade? Like regardless of whether Wanda did this intentionally or not, the amount of pain she caused is immeasurable.

Like I said earlier Emma totally went over the line with what she did to the Inhumans, but the mutants were actually the ones who were gonna go extinct cause of that story NOT the Inhumans. After that Emma was justifiably treated like a villain for several years. The next time they saw each other they weren’t even on speaking terms and mutants were facing ANOTHER extinction.

[sunofdarkchild]

When did Scott forgive Emma? When he came back from the dead he forgot that she existed and was pretty angry with her when they were finally reunited. In the Krakoa era it's Xavier and the nation's policy that all past crimes of every citizen are being forgiven, hence why everyone is cool with Emma again, not just Scott, and why people like Sinister, Apocalypse, and Gorgon are given positions of power with barely a fuss. The better example would be his tolerance for Magneto during the Utopia era at the very time he was so against Wanda.

[whitecrown]

More non-sense. Wanda caused a genocide and was still protected by the Avengers. The same guys who tried to lock him up just for Xavier- which he, mind you, still accepted until people in his prison were murdered just to get to him. Meanwhile, Emma was fighting a war against the Inhumans they started, and were once again committing a genocide, without doing anything to stop it.

No genocide, she took away the X-Gene, and she was possessed and under the control of Doctor Doom. The Avengers didn't come knocking on the door of the X-Men after the D'Bari incident with Dark Phoenix, so the X-Men have no right to do the same with the Avengers and Wanda. Especially when even before M-Day, you had X-Men wanting to put her down. Cyclops killed Xavier, he deserves to be locked up. He would have killed a lot more people had he not been stopped. The Inhumans were not committing a genocide, the Terrigen Mists are how their people function and it's a part of their culture. The fake blonde committed the real act of genocide, but that's not surprising considering how many children have died under her watch, the horse she has killed, and the vast number of people she has sexually assaulted whether physically or psychically.

[Havok83]

No genocide, she took away the X-Gene, and she was possessed and under the control of Doctor Doom. The Avengers didn't come knocking on the door of the X-Men after the D'Bari incident with Dark Phoenix, so the X-Men have no right to do the same with the Avengers and Wanda. Especially when even before M-Day, you had X-Men wanting to put her down. Cyclops killed Xavier, he deserves to be locked up. He would have killed a lot more people had he not been stopped. The Inhumans were not committing a genocide, the Terrigen Mists are how their people function and it's a part of their culture. The fake blonde committed the real act of genocide, but that's not surprising considering how many children have died under her watch, the horse she has killed, and the vast number of people she has sexually assaulted whether physically or psychically.

Why would the Avengers do that? They werent aware of what happened with the D'Bari and Jean was dead within 24 hours of that happening so it would have been a moot point

The Inhumans were committing genocide. For centuries they kept the Terrigen crystals locked up and only exposed other Inhumans to it bc they knew it was was potentially toxic with catastrophic effects on non-Inhumans. They held this sacred until Black Bolt released the mist into the atmosphere. Allowing a poisonous gas raom around Earth was not a part of their culture. That was something new and it terrible. At that point they were putting everyone at risk. Mutants were dying and they knew that. They could have either destroyed the cloud or contained it but instead they let it roam free and were hostile towards anyone (the mutants) that would dare try to get rid of it. They were dead wrong for that

[whitecrown]

Is the problem with the story focus because of the character or the decisions of the writers? It seems like the story they wanted to tell was about Cyclops at the time. Considering the father/son bond of Xavier and Cyclops, it makes sense considering the direction the story was going to go. You can't force writers to do something they don't want. He also has stepped down. Sometimes begrudgingly, but he has.

Emma was his only ally for a long time and his ex-gf. It makes sense he would forgive Emma over others more easily. Part of the issue was that he was dead and wasn't around. Why would he condemn Emma for something he didn't witness firsthand? People have biases. Besides, when she attempted to rekindle their love, he declined.

As for Claremont, he just hates the character to an extreme degree. He started writing him out the books for whatever reason, only to hate him later. He's admitted this openly and continues to make an effort to take jabs at him. I wouldn't necessarily take his opinion/direction on the character to heart.

Cyclops was pushed as the only suitable leader of the X-Men after M-Day, despite other characters existing like Xavier, Magneto, Storm, etc. And the X-Men and mutantkind have survived without him before. The father/son bond was only referenced in those stories as character assassination for Xavier and to prop up Cyclops and his band of villains he was running around with. Writers were only willing to express their own POV because as straight, white males, Cyclops is the character they associate with and live vicariously through, Fraction more than any other writer.

She was his only ally because she was the other terrorist and villain besides him. If he is as objective and skilled a leader as people make him out to be, he should be able to see her true colors and actions and judge without his emotions clouding his judgment but he was willing to accept her actions and let her live, whereas he tried to kill Wanda.

Most of Cyclops' development came from Claremont, particularly the classic iteration of the character, and while I used to disagree with him, after everything that has happened with the character, I'm inclined to Claremont's views now. If Claremont hadn't written Cyclops, we would not have the version of the character we have today so there is a level of respect that must be owed him.

But Im not championing for them to revisit the Beast origin story (BTW, it happened in the 80s). That was merely brought on as an example of Xavier's dubious ways throughout history and its not mentioned every other post. You just brought it back up and you are ignoring the context

You think you deserve an apology (assuming you include yourself part of that Wanda fandom)? Haha....

Almost all your posts to me have been about that silly story nobody even talks about.

I don't want or care about an apology. But I've seen Wanda fans demonized over here and not feel safe at all and they deserve an apology. Perhaps you should ask yourself if you are part of the problem, the way you are defending her haters.

[sunofdarkchild]

No genocide, she took away the X-Gene, and she was possessed and under the control of Doctor Doom. The Avengers didn't come knocking on the door of the X-Men after the D'Bari incident with Dark Phoenix, so the X-Men have no right to do the same with the Avengers and Wanda. Especially when even before M-Day, you had X-Men wanting to put her down. Cyclops killed Xavier, he deserves to be locked up. He would have killed a lot more people had he not been stopped. The Inhumans were not committing a genocide, the Terrigen Mists are how their people function and it's a part of their culture. The fake blonde committed the real act of genocide, but that's not surprising considering how many children have died under her watch, the horse she has killed, and the vast number of people she has sexually assaulted whether physically or psychically.

You're comparing apples and oranges a lot. The Avengers had no idea what happened with Dark Phoenix until Beast filed his report after Jean was already dead. There was no one to arrest and the situation was resolved without them. They did become concerned when Jean came back and had to determine that Jean was not still a threat. The better comparison is again Magneto, who the Avengers did 'knock on the X-Men's door' to arrest after he had reformed and become the school's headmaster.

[Havok83]

Almost all your posts to me have been about that silly story nobody even talks about.

I don't want or care about an apology. But I've seen Wanda fans demonized over here and not feel safe at all and they deserve an apology. Perhaps you should ask yourself if you are part of the problem, the way you are defending her haters.

Its called a discussion. We were both going back and forth on it in relation to Xavier's past. It was not randomly brought up and was put aside when the points were exhausted. Again you are the one that just brought it up. I left it alone and had already moved on.

No one is attacking any Wanda fans in here. The posts are about the characters involved, not the posters