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  1. #6616
    Astonishing Member ohsnapulon5000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    That would be terrible and problematic to do. Its as bad as Darwin's skin lightning for similar reasons. She's black. We shuldnt need to come up with excuses for why Marvel keeps failing her repeatedly coloring her light. It would set a bad precedence and would encourage her to continue to be colored like a white woman
    Yeah but I mean, she’s also in the realm of being a light skinned black woman as well and if we’re going to have a open dialogue on race then why not let it include the idea that there’s so many ways to be black. A lot of the black women in comics at least at marvel and outside of Storm tend to look very similar in how the artists tend to execute ‘natural blackness’ and that’s quite frankly fine and good but why not at least let the discussion on multi racial ethnicity, Colorism, etc be brought to the table by a mutant? It’s what the mutant metaphor is for. If this were Misty Knight or Riri or even Spectrum, it’d be different. They’re human archetypes, paragons of their origin. But X-men is all about facing the problematic and addressing it at least with nuance.

  2. #6617
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam-X View Post
    But. If you know you can easily be resurrected - why not say? "Kill me and resurrect me when my leg fixed, please."

    Where is the downside?

    That's been (one) of my issues with the current stance of X-Men. There's NO risk for our heroes.

    "Terrorists have taken over a building."
    "Send in everyone. Anyone who dies, we just resurrect."
    "Got it."
    Show ten X-Men dying.
    The rest save the day.
    Show ten X-Men awakening in pods, covered in gold.
    "Phew!"
    On the one hand, that's true. But just the act of dying is itself traumatic, I imagine, and that must have the potential of giving returnees PTSD from Hell, given how much PTSD *not* dying can give the rest of us.

    There's also been more than a few hints that at least *some* mutants do not trust the resurrection protocols. At one point, Rictor is dying of a disease from one of the Horsemen, and suggests just letting him die and coming back in a disease-free body and Apocalypse freaks the **** out and demands that he fight to survive, rather than allow himself to die and be resurrected.

    One the one hand, that's *totally* in-character for Apocalypse and his survival-of-the-fittest ethos, that he'd despise the idea of 'giving up' and not fighting till your last breath.

    On the other hand, he's absolutely fine with *other* mutants (like Gorgon or Melody Guthrie) dying and coming back. It's only when it's someone like Rictor, who, for whatever reason, matters to him, that he is willing to endanger his own life to try (refusing the Morlock Healers aid and ordering him to help Rictor instead) and keep Rictor from dying and being resurrected.

    Storm seems similarly hesitant at first to accept Callisto's request, and Kurt, IIRC, has seemed a little squiffy on the process, despite having gone through it himself!

  3. #6618
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam-X View Post
    But. If you know you can easily be resurrected - why not say? "Kill me and resurrect me when my leg fixed, please."

    Where is the downside?

    That's been (one) of my issues with the current stance of X-Men. There's NO risk for our heroes.

    "Terrorists have taken over a building."
    "Send in everyone. Anyone who dies, we just resurrect."
    "Got it."
    Show ten X-Men dying.
    The rest save the day.
    Show ten X-Men awakening in pods, covered in gold.
    "Phew!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    On the one hand, that's true. But just the act of dying is itself traumatic, I imagine, and that must have the potential of giving returnees PTSD from Hell, given how much PTSD *not* dying can give the rest of us.

    There's also been more than a few hints that at least *some* mutants do not trust the resurrection protocols. At one point, Rictor is dying of a disease from one of the Horsemen, and suggests just letting him die and coming back in a disease-free body and Apocalypse freaks the **** out and demands that he fight to survive, rather than allow himself to die and be resurrected.

    One the one hand, that's *totally* in-character for Apocalypse and his survival-of-the-fittest ethos, that he'd despise the idea of 'giving up' and not fighting till your last breath.

    On the other hand, he's absolutely fine with *other* mutants (like Gorgon or Melody Guthrie) dying and coming back. It's only when it's someone like Rictor, who, for whatever reason, matters to him, that he is willing to endanger his own life to try (refusing the Morlock Healers aid and ordering him to help Rictor instead) and keep Rictor from dying and being resurrected.

    Storm seems similarly hesitant at first to accept Callisto's request, and Kurt, IIRC, has seemed a little squiffy on the process, despite having gone through it himself!
    But they don't need to kill people and resurrect them to get limbs back. Elixer literally regrew Prodigy's heart in Limbo. Just line up people missing limbs like Karma, Hellion, Forge, etc...and just have Elixer regrow their limbs or whatever they need regrown.

  4. #6619
    Mighty Member Kingdom X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohsnapulon5000 View Post
    Yeah but I mean, she’s also in the realm of being a light skinned black woman as well and if we’re going to have a open dialogue on race then why not let it include the idea that there’s so many ways to be black. A lot of the black women in comics at least at marvel and outside of Storm tend to look very similar in how the artists tend to execute ‘natural blackness’ and that’s quite frankly fine and good but why not at least let the discussion on multi racial ethnicity, Colorism, etc be brought to the table by a mutant? It’s what the mutant metaphor is for. If this were Misty Knight or Riri or even Spectrum, it’d be different. They’re human archetypes, paragons of their origin. But X-men is all about facing the problematic and addressing it at least with nuance.
    I do not trust the vast majority of the X-writers to do justice to a story that tackles the complexities of colorism. You still have x-writers every couple years being like, “Minorities identify with mutants, who would have thunk?”

  5. #6620
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam-X View Post
    But. If you know you can easily be resurrected - why not say? "Kill me and resurrect me when my leg fixed, please."

    Where is the downside?

    That's been (one) of my issues with the current stance of X-Men. There's NO risk for our heroes.

    "Terrorists have taken over a building."
    "Send in everyone. Anyone who dies, we just resurrect."
    "Got it."
    Show ten X-Men dying.
    The rest save the day.
    Show ten X-Men awakening in pods, covered in gold.
    "Phew!"
    If she died, she would come back with her leg. This is a moot point bc she hasnt been killed yet which explains why her leg is still machine

  6. #6621
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam-X View Post
    But. If you know you can easily be resurrected - why not say? "Kill me and resurrect me when my leg fixed, please."

    Where is the downside?
    There's technically none, but then you bump into problems like mutants having the mentality that they're only valid if they're physically flawless. Which would create a culture that is an extrapolation of what we have today. The next step from there is having people propagate that you're only good enough if you're of a certain height, a certain body type, so on and so forth.

    That's been (one) of my issues with the current stance of X-Men. There's NO risk for our heroes.

    "Terrorists have taken over a building."
    "Send in everyone. Anyone who dies, we just resurrect."
    "Got it."
    Show ten X-Men dying.
    The rest save the day.
    Show ten X-Men awakening in pods, covered in gold.
    "Phew!"
    Well, short term risks are, indeed, way less present. Like, losing a limb or straight up dying. So they have to amp up on longer term issues, like more advanced anti-mutant AI and corruption within the state. It's a fair trade, IMO.

  7. #6622
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrezValentine View Post
    There's technically none, but then you bump into problems like mutants having the mentality that they're only valid if they're physically flawless. Which would create a culture that is an extrapolation of what we have today. The next step from there is having people propagate that you're only good enough if you're of a certain height, a certain body type, so on and so forth.
    Well they allready claim to be a society of immortals and the majority of the people in it have seemingly nothing to do when they aren't forming a big crowd around Storm and shout when she is playing the hypewoman for someone. The only actual productive activities seem to be reserved for those who have specific desirable powers or have relations to the people in charge who put them into productive positions (nepotism).

    So the big nameless grey mass of backround mutants is left with nothing to do but a possible eternity of just "be" and partying. Which would make it likely that they would sooner or later just attempt to be more "desirable" for the society by trying to get themself better powers or start to tweak around with their physical form as it's not a big deal anymore, because if anything happens to them they just get a new body printed out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    If she died, she would come back with her leg. This is a moot point bc she hasnt been killed yet which explains why her leg is still machine
    Give it time, everyone seems to get stupidly/cheaply killed in this current X-men run, because of the in universe respawn system and the writers abusing it, sooner or later her number will likely come up too. At which point we will see if they keep her artifical leg (old fashioned tech or krakoa based bio-tech) for sake of representation or if her organic leg is restored on the clone body.

    Maybe we should do an "anti-dead pool" in which we try to predict the characters which will go through the current run without getting killed.
    Last edited by Grunty; 02-25-2021 at 07:16 PM.

  8. #6623
    Spectacular Member Covetous_One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunty View Post
    Maybe we should do an "anti-dead pool" in which we try to predict the characters which will go through the current run without getting killed.
    I put 50 on Storm
    “There is no defense against the Scarlet Witch's HEX!

  9. #6624

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    On the one hand, that's true. But just the act of dying is itself traumatic, I imagine, and that must have the potential of giving returnees PTSD from Hell, given how much PTSD *not* dying can give the rest of us.
    I'd buy that - if I hadn't seen otherwise. Wind Dancer was shot and killed in X-Factor. Emerged from the sack, covered in gold. Was she traumatized? Not at all. What did she do? She took to the air and flew around - having her powers restored and free of Mojoworld. Didn't seem the least bit bothered that she'd just been shot and killed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    There's also been more than a few hints that at least *some* mutants do not trust the resurrection protocols. At one point, Rictor is dying of a disease from one of the Horsemen, and suggests just letting him die and coming back in a disease-free body and Apocalypse freaks the **** out and demands that he fight to survive, rather than allow himself to die and be resurrected.
    One the one hand, that's *totally* in-character for Apocalypse and his survival-of-the-fittest ethos, that he'd despise the idea of 'giving up' and not fighting till your last breath.
    I'd expect no less from Apocalypse - that's been his thing - since, like forever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    Storm seems similarly hesitant at first to accept Callisto's request, and Kurt, IIRC, has seemed a little squiffy on the process, despite having gone through it himself!
    As a religious person (I assume he still is), I am not at all surprised Kurt would seem hesitant. He was saved from Heaven (or something similar) once too.
    And Storm, I could see not being comfortable - as someone who has always appreciated the order of life and death.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    If she died, she would come back with her leg. This is a moot point bc she hasnt been killed yet which explains why her leg is still machine
    Right - that was my point though. If she wanted her leg - she could easily just die - and have it back. Seems silly that she'd want a bionic leg - even if she's "used to it" - she walked on a normal leg for at least 20 years of her life.

    Quote Originally Posted by PrezValentine View Post
    There's technically none, but then you bump into problems like mutants having the mentality that they're only valid if they're physically flawless. Which would create a culture that is an extrapolation of what we have today. The next step from there is having people propagate that you're only good enough if you're of a certain height, a certain body type, so on and so forth.
    You mean, like having a racist island where only mutants - and a very, very, very, very few select "non mutants" can live on?
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  10. #6625
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrezValentine View Post
    There's technically none, but then you bump into problems like mutants having the mentality that they're only valid if they're physically flawless. Which would create a culture that is an extrapolation of what we have today. The next step from there is having people propagate that you're only good enough if you're of a certain height, a certain body type, so on and so forth.
    Don’t they already consider that being a mutant is better than being a human?

    Why not going a step further? Aren’t the X-men with their dazzling powers much considered than those who are just green or having four eyes instead of two?

  11. #6626
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    Don’t they already consider that being a mutant is better than being a human?

    Why not going a step further? Aren’t the X-men with their dazzling powers much considered than those who are just green or having four eyes instead of two?
    Yes, because being proud of your personal identity surely must always lead to eugenics...?
    Last edited by nandes; 02-26-2021 at 06:28 AM.

  12. #6627
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nandes View Post
    Yes, because being proud of your personal identity surely must always lead to eugenics...?
    Aren’t they suppose to stop following bourgeois human rules and redefine their values?

  13. #6628
    Astonishing Member Frobisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nandes View Post
    Yes, because being proud of your personal identity surely must always lead to eugenics...?
    Well, some people seriously equate black pride and gay pride at having survived and thrived under centuries of persecution to Nazism. Because obviously.

  14. #6629
    Incredible Member frostedemma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohsnapulon5000 View Post
    I think it should be directly addressed if not strongly implied that part of Monet’s ‘perfect’ pwerset for some reason means that her skin tone naturally, and perhaps not consciously, lightens and darkens in certain situations. In the way that race is discussed with Storm in the Omniracial Storm Paradox, Monet’s mutant metaphor should also be a discussion on Colorism and multi-ethnic inclusion identity politics.

    And plus it would give good discourse on why some artists render her darker or lighter throughout her history AS WELL AS making it a conscious decision on the WRITER’s part as well when we see it crop up. Make these hoes own their accountability.
    That's a terrible idea. Monet's powers aren't even perfection, it's just that all her powersets happen to make her as close to a "perfect" mutant as there can be. Monet being muslim and franco-algerian is already an important topic and can be used as a parallel to the mutant metaphor but no writer ever bothered to actually delve into her Algerian identity except for G. Willow.

  15. #6630
    Incredible Member frostedemma's Avatar
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    This might come as a shock to some people, but not every disabled person views their disability as them "lacking" and would jump at the chance to "make them whole". Just in the real world there's many deaf people who choose to not get a cochlear implant.

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