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  1. #6631
    Astonishing Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Just doesnt make sense to be ressurrect whole and them be asked to lose a leg

  2. #6632

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    Quote Originally Posted by nandes View Post
    Yes, because being proud of your personal identity surely must always lead to eugenics...?
    Being proud is one thing - making an island that is for one type of person only - goes beyond that.

    A certain person in Germany wanted to be devoid of "lesser" people, too.

    Because he was proud of his personal identity too.
    Last edited by Adam-X; 02-26-2021 at 03:26 PM.
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  3. #6633
    Incredible Member frostedemma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam-X View Post
    Being proud is one thing - making an island that is for one type of person only - goes beyond that.

    Hitler wanted Germany to be devoid of Jews and other "lesser" people, too.

    Because he was proud of his personal identity too.
    Holy bad faith argument!

    Krakoa is open to humans and has quite a few living on the island and/or frequently visiting: Kyle, Brian, the human parents of several young mutants, the human significant others of some mutants and etc. Mutants making an Island for themselves away from save from the numerous countries and governments that have discriminatory and hostile laws against mutants, that have massacred mutants in the past and have done nothing against the numerous mutant hate groups who carried terrorist acts against mutants is in no way equivalent to Hitler making jewish, roma, sinti, emigrants, gays and etc wear badges of shame and the final solution.

  4. #6634
    Astonishing Member Omega Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam-X View Post
    Being proud is one thing - making an island that is for one type of person only - goes beyond that.

    Hitler wanted Germany to be devoid of Jews and other "lesser" people, too.

    Because he was proud of his personal identity too.
    Here we go again:




  5. #6635

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    Quote Originally Posted by frostedemma View Post
    Holy bad faith argument!

    Krakoa is open to humans and has quite a few living on the island and/or frequently visiting: Kyle, Brian, the human parents of several young mutants, the human significant others of some mutants and etc. Mutants making an Island for themselves away from save from the numerous countries and governments that have discriminatory and hostile laws against mutants, that have massacred mutants in the past and have done nothing against the numerous mutant hate groups who carried terrorist acts against mutants is in no way equivalent to Hitler making jewish, roma, sinti, emigrants, gays and etc wear badges of shame and the final solution.
    I am not saying that it's the same as the monster from Germany. I am merely saying it's a blurry line.

    Because if you think about it - what does Krakora have? Mutants. Yes, some "normal humans" - but majority of the population is mutants.

    And for the very reason you said - countries and such discriminating against mutants. Why not live on your own island?

    And that'd be fine - if they just stayed on the island.

    But they don't. They go outside of the island. And what do they have? Powers. A lot of the mutants have very potentially destructive powers. And they use their powers to throw their weight around.

    So you have this untouchable island of super weapons; who for the most part, is an island almost exclusively mutants (fair to say about 99% of the population is mutants?)

    And to be fair - if humans lived in a world with super powered people (mutant and otherwise) - I'd say the fear is justified - because way too often - even with the best intentions - ("normal/non powered") human settlements get destroyed during epic fights.

    EDIT -

    I will add, I think part of it comes from the fact they're on this island. So it feels like they're this "country" on its own - rather than being at a school, where they tried to keep a low profile, secret identities, etc.

    The current story - with the resurrections, no risk of death, no risk to characters, etc - just tastes foul in my mouth - so it makes me extra saucy. I know this about myself.

    So I need to apologize if it came off as an attempt to be a thread killer.
    Last edited by Adam-X; 02-26-2021 at 04:43 PM.
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  6. #6636
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam-X View Post
    I am not saying that it's the same as the monster from Germany. I am merely saying it's a blurry line.

    Because if you think about it - what does Krakora have? Mutants. Yes, some "normal humans" - but majority of the population is mutants.

    And for the very reason you said - countries and such discriminating against mutants. Why not live on your own island?

    And that'd be fine - if they just stayed on the island.

    But they don't. They go outside of the island. And what do they have? Powers. A lot of the mutants have very potentially destructive powers. And they use their powers to throw their weight around.

    So you have this untouchable island of super weapons; who for the most part, is an island almost exclusively mutants (fair to say about 99% of the population is mutants?)

    And to be fair - if humans lived in a world with super powered people (mutant and otherwise) - I'd say the fear is justified - because way too often - even with the best intentions - ("normal/non powered") human settlements get destroyed during epic fights.

    EDIT -

    I will add, I think part of it comes from the fact they're on this island. So it feels like they're this "country" on its own - rather than being at a school, where they tried to keep a low profile, secret identities, etc.

    The current story - with the resurrections, no risk of death, no risk to characters, etc - just tastes foul in my mouth - so it makes me extra saucy. I know this about myself.

    So I need to apologize if it came off as an attempt to be a thread killer.
    YES!!!!

    And their gates allow them to go where ever in the world they want with no regard for borders or laws.

    I really want to see some of this bite them in the ass...Let's see some mutant get arrested for breaking some serious laws like transporting drugs (or if we go really dark a serial rapist) they Krakoan gates. What is Krakoa going to do...try to protect this criminal or have to issue a public statement that the criminal is going to have to face the music on their own.

  7. #6637
    Incredible Member Outburstz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    YES!!!!

    And their gates allow them to go where ever in the world they want with no regard for borders or laws.

    I really want to see some of this bite them in the ass...Let's see some mutant get arrested for breaking some serious laws like transporting drugs (or if we go really dark a serial rapist) they Krakoan gates. What is Krakoa going to do...try to protect this criminal or have to issue a public statement that the criminal is going to have to face the music on their own.
    Do the same thing they did to Sabretooth take the mutant who broke one of the 3 laws and punish them on Krakoa. If they don't break one of the 3 laws then they have diplomatic immunity.

  8. #6638
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    the unrealistic thing about Krakoa is that there should be many mutants married to humans that don't want to move to Krakoa
    Krakoa can only be justified in a world where mutants are persecuted all over the planet in every country, in a world in which mutants like Sabra who is a patriotic Israeli are very rare

  9. #6639
    Incredible Member Outburstz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lurkerforyears View Post
    the unrealistic thing about Krakoa is that there should be many mutants married to humans that don't want to move to Krakoa
    Krakoa can only be justified in a world where mutants are persecuted all over the planet in every country, in a world in which mutants like Sabra who is a patriotic Israeli are very rare
    There are mutants who don't go to Krakoa
    They are persecuted all over the world
    and mutant nationalist are rare

  10. #6640
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outburstz View Post
    Do the same thing they did to Sabretooth take the mutant who broke one of the 3 laws and punish them on Krakoa. If they don't break one of the 3 laws then they have diplomatic immunity.
    Make More Mutants
    Murder No Man
    Respect This Sacred Land

    If a mutant is using (abusing?) the Krakoan Gates to mule drugs...is he breaking any of the rules?

    Or a serial rapist....who is purposely trying to impregnate his victims...does he claim he is obeying the law to make more mutants so Krakoa is going to help him avoid being punished?

    Diplomatic Immunity does not apply to everyone...and if Krakoa tried to protect them they will look bad on the world stage.

    This goes beyond the simplistic "all mutants are persecuted and need protection...mmmkay..." plot line. It puts real ethical decisions in the hands of the Krakoan government.

  11. #6641
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    I dunno if it falls under unpopular opinions or not. But Percy put forward that Russia may be filled with Mutants that Krakoa is totally unaware of...

    And we've not once returned to that point.

  12. #6642
    Astonishing Member Omega Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrSurf View Post
    I dunno if it falls under unpopular opinions or not. But Percy put forward that Russia may be filled with Mutants that Krakoa is totally unaware of...

    And we've not once returned to that point.
    Maybe because that's a very stupid point, since that ignores a little something called Cerebro. They might not know exactly who those mutants are, but they know exactly how many mutants are there.

  13. #6643
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    Lockjaw let's the inhumans go anywhere and the mu had no problem with them taking over land and citizens so I can't get worked up about the same about them having a problem with their victims having an island and teleporters. Heck val just opened a portal that can take somebody anywhere anytime with the forever gate in FF. Sounds far more dangerous than controlled gates. Anyone can sneak into the forever gate and destroy time.
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  14. #6644
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Make More Mutants
    Murder No Man
    Respect This Sacred Land

    If a mutant is using (abusing?) the Krakoan Gates to mule drugs...is he breaking any of the rules?
    Yes especially if he/she is a citizen of krakoa, they would be judged acording to Krakoaīs laws,laws that involve more than this three principles. I just doenīt expect marvel to publish the entire Krakoan constitution, fans are already annoyed with the info pages.

    Or a serial rapist....who is purposely trying to impregnate his victims...does he claim he is obeying the law to make more mutants so Krakoa is going to help him avoid being punished?Diplomatic Immunity does not apply to everyone...and if Krakoa tried to protect them they will look bad on the world stage.
    Itīs not diplomatic inmmunity, itīs simply that any mutant who asks to be a citizen of Krakoa will be judged by Krakoaīs laws,this isnīt even something new, this happens all the time in the real world where some citizens from different country are either send to be judged by their own goverment or if they have reason to ask for asylum they may or may not get it granted by another country.

    This goes beyond the simplistic "all mutants are persecuted and need protection...mmmkay..." plot line. It puts real ethical decisions in the hands of the Krakoan government.
    Yes, there are ethical and more importantly law decisions that will be in the hands of Krakoaīs goverment, it works just like in any other goverment on earth.


    All this obssesion with wanting to give reduction ad absurd arguments just to paint Krakoa as the most evil place on earth ever just makes me want to root more for Hickmanīs run out of annoyance
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 02-27-2021 at 04:20 AM.
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  15. #6645
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    Yes especially if he/she is a citizen of krakoa, they would be judged acording to Krakoaīs laws,laws that involve more than this three principles. I just doenīt expect marvel to publish the entire Krakoan constitution, fans are already annoyed with the info pages.



    Itīs not diplomatic inmmunity, itīs simply that any mutant who asks to be a citizen of Krakoa will be judged by Krakoaīs laws,this isnīt even something new, this happens all the time in the real world where some citizens from different country are either send to be judged by their own goverment or if they have reason to ask for asylum they may or may not get it granted by another country.



    Yes, there are ethical and more importantly law decisions that will be in the hands of Krakoaīs goverment, it works just like in any other goverment on earth.


    All this obssesion with wanting to give reduction ad absurd arguments just to paint Krakoa as the most evil place on earth ever just makes me want to root more for Hickmanīs run just to be contrary
    Ummm...no...

    A foreign national who breaks the law in the US is subject to US law and jurisdiction....they are not sent back to their home country to be tried by their home government. Just a a US citizen abroad is subject to the laws of the country they are visiting.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_principle

    The territorial principle (also territoriality principle) is a principle of public international law which enables a sovereign state to exercise exclusive jurisdiction over individuals and other legal persons within its territory. It includes both the right to prosecute individuals for criminal offenses committed within its borders, as well as the right to arrest and apprehend individuals within its territory.
    So in the situation of serious crimes being committed by a mutant...and the country in which the crimes are committed are refusing to give the criminal up to Krakoa...what is Krakoa going to do? Send the X-Men to break them out of prison? Have Magic or Pixie or Vanisher teleport them away?

    Or are they going to look at the seriousness of the crimes and just make sure he has a lawyer and wash their hands of it.

    And I am not saying that Krakoa is the most evil place on Earth...I just want more complexity to the story.

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