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  1. #6661
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Your assumption is that every mutant that comes to Krakoa did so for altruistic reasons...and we know that is not true. We have not been made privy to the motivations of every single one of them so we don't know.
    Politely?

    There's not really any assumption.

    Everyone who decided to become a citizen was given the same ground rules.

    The idea that some sort of "Tony Montana..." character turned up, and went right back to "Business As Usual..." without anyone noticing or addressing it...

    What has been on the pages of the books that have actually been published that points to anything like that even being an outside possibility?

  2. #6662
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunty View Post
    Correct me if i remember it incorrectly. But didn't Xavier proclaim all mutants are now automatically citizen of Krakoa by default (even if they don't know it) and are therefor under their juristriction and their's alone? Which was their excuse for taking Sabtertooh away from a court of law, since under said claim he has to be sentenced under Krakoan law?

    I have been thinking for a while it would be interesting to have mutants who don't just live outside Krakoa but actualy reject it and their citizenship. Because it would be quite strange if really everyone would be on board with getting a citizenship forced upon them out of the blue or getting replicated against their will.
    That's been an issue for me since the beginning...where are those mutants who want nothing to do with Krakoa?

    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Politely?

    There's not really any assumption.

    Everyone who decided to become a citizen was given the same ground rules.

    The idea that some sort of "Tony Montana..." character turned up, and went right back to "Business As Usual..." without anyone noticing or addressing it...

    What has been on the pages of the books that have actually been published that points to anything like that even being an outside possibility?
    Shaw? Sinister?? Apocalypse??? Jamie Braddock???? They are not all there for the betterment of mutantkind...they are there for their own ends.

    And what is Farouk up to with those kids?? Has he all of a sudden learned the error of his evil ways and is just trying to be helpful and nurturing??

    Even Magneto and Xavier and not being wholly altruistic...they are manipulating Mystique by promising to bring Destiny back...even though they have no intention to do so...and seem to be willing to ignore "murder no man" if it is someone who works for Orchis.
    Last edited by Chris0013; 02-27-2021 at 04:31 PM.

  3. #6663
    Astonishing Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    That's been an issue for me since the beginning...where are those mutants who want nothing to do with Krakoa?
    In their own countries.

  4. #6664
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grunty View Post
    Correct me if i remember it incorrectly. But didn't Xavier proclaim all mutants are now automatically citizen of Krakoa by default (even if they don't know it) and are therefor under their juristriction and their's alone? Which was their excuse for taking Sabtertooh away from a court of law, since under said claim he has to be sentenced under Krakoan law?

    I have been thinking for a while it would be interesting to have mutants who don't just live outside Krakoa but actualy reject it and their citizenship. Because it would be quite strange if really everyone would be on board with getting a citizenship forced upon them out of the blue or getting replicated against their will.
    Sabertooth had been on a mission at Krakoa's behest.

    Not really like he was just some rando or had been living on the island before deciding he was going to use the gates to pull a Tony Montana.

  5. #6665
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    ...

    Shaw? Sinister?? Apocalypse??? Jamie Braddock???? They are not all there for the betterment of mutantkind...they are there for their own ends.
    That's four names.

    Two out of those four are not even currently residing on Earth. Never mind using Krakoan gates to take a run at being Tony Montana.

    Again, there's just nothing in the actual books on the stands that points to anything like this even being an outside possibility.

  6. #6666
    Astonishing Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    That's four names.

    Two out of those four are not even currently residing on Earth. Never mind using Krakoan gates to take a run at being Tony Montana.

    Again, there's just nothing in the actual books on the stands that points to anything like this even being an outside possibility.
    There is millions of mutants and thousands of gates, of course some are using them to commit crimes. We already have omega red, mastermind commiting crimes
    We saw a rando doing crimes on the she-hulk one-shot.

  7. #6667
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    In their own countries.
    I want to see them on page and hear their reasons. Is there a mutant who disagrees with the amnesty and for that reason does not want to be part of it? Is there someone who was abused by some of the people in power like what Emma did to Firestar and will not go because putting someone like that in government is abhorrent to them.

  8. #6668
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    There is millions of mutants and thousands of gates, of course some are using them to commit crimes. We already have omega red, mastermind commiting crimes
    We saw a rando doing crimes on the she-hulk one-shot.
    Again...

    There's apparently millions of mutants, and I see two names and a third mentioned.

    First off?

    That's a non-issue.

    Second?

    The other two names are taking part in crimes against other mutants.

    Still a non-issue in the premise that we are being asked to entertain.

  9. #6669
    Astonishing Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Again...

    There's apparently millions of mutants, and I see two names and a third mentioned.

    First off?

    That's a non-issue.

    Second?

    The other two names are taking part in crimes against other mutants.

    Still a non-issue in the premise that we are being asked to entertain.
    There is millions of mutants and only like 10 books focusing on less than 100 mutants. There is a lot that we don't see nd we alredy saw using the gate to commit crimes

  10. #6670
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    There is millions of mutants and only like 10 books focusing on less than 100 mutants. There is a lot that we don't see nd we alredy saw using the gate to commit crimes
    You've got a lone instance.

    If you turned up with a lone instance as your "Proof..." that voter fraud had to be even a minor issue(never mind that it was an indicator of something on a "Tony Montana..."-level existing...)?

    How seriously would that assertion be taken?

  11. #6671
    Astonishing Member Rang10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    You've got a lone instance.

    If you turned up with a lone instance as your "Proof..." that voter fraud had to be even a minor issue(never mind that it was an indicator of something on a "Tony Montana..."-level existing...)?

    How seriously would that assertion be taken?
    3 instances on a small sample. That mean that more stuff is going, not gonna pretend everyone on krakoa is nice

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    I want to see them on page and hear their reasons. Is there a mutant who disagrees with the amnesty and for that reason does not want to be part of it? Is there someone who was abused by some of the people in power like what Emma did to Firestar and will not go because putting someone like that in government is abhorrent to them.
    I think it is a good idea. It's already very weird seeing every mutant (the most wel known ones) on Krakoa, after Xavier did some really bad stuff over the years

  12. #6672
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rang10 View Post
    3 instances on a small sample. That mean that more stuff is going, not gonna pretend everyone on krakoa is nice

    ...
    Since two of those crimes are mutants taking part in crimes against their fellow mutants?

    You don't even have three instances.

    You have a lone instance of something rather petty(as I recall...)

    Again, a lone instance of voter fraud being your proof that voter fraud is happening on even a very small scale.

    Just how seriously will that be taken?

  13. #6673

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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    You've got a lone instance.
    If you turned up with a lone instance as your "Proof..." that voter fraud had to be even a minor issue(never mind that it was an indicator of something on a "Tony Montana..."-level existing...)?
    How seriously would that assertion be taken?
    Oi - with the voter fraud.

    I think the idea is - where there's smoke there's fire.

    Obviously, in these X-Books - the writers have no interest in showing "Hey here's some mutants abusing the gates" - because it's not relevant to their story. But I'd imagine in a living world, that something like that probably is happening.

    It interesting that - on this island - they house mutants who have committed crimes - even against the fellow mutants they're sitting next to.

    Folks like Shaw, Apocalypse, Magneto, Sinister, to name a few - who, I am surprised that even their fellow mutants forgive.

    And what would happen if a nation (such as the United States) demanded that the citizens of Krakoa hand over Shaw/Apocalypse/Sinister over to "normal humans" to be prosecuted for their (past) crimes?
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  14. #6674
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam-X View Post
    Oi - with the voter fraud.

    I think the idea is - where there's smoke there's fire.

    Obviously, in these X-Books - the writers have no interest in showing "Hey here's some mutants abusing the gates" - because it's not relevant to their story. But I'd imagine in a living world, that something like that probably is happening.

    It interesting that - on this island - they house mutants who have committed crimes - even against the fellow mutants they're sitting next to.

    Folks like Shaw, Apocalypse, Magneto, Sinister, to name a few - who, I am surprised that even their fellow mutants forgive.

    And what would happen if a nation (such as the United States) demanded that the citizens of Krakoa hand over Shaw/Apocalypse/Sinister over to "normal humans" to be prosecuted for their (past) crimes?
    Without so much as a bit of a wisp of smoke as the proof that a tiny fire might exist somewhere.

    Never mind someone trying to build a "Tony Montana..."-sized drug smuggling operation.

    Again, there's nothing in the books that points to that anything like this is actually taking place.

  15. #6675
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam-X View Post
    Oi - with the voter fraud.

    I think the idea is - where there's smoke there's fire.

    Obviously, in these X-Books - the writers have no interest in showing "Hey here's some mutants abusing the gates" - because it's not relevant to their story. But I'd imagine in a living world, that something like that probably is happening.

    It interesting that - on this island - they house mutants who have committed crimes - even against the fellow mutants they're sitting next to.

    Folks like Shaw, Apocalypse, Magneto, Sinister, to name a few - who, I am surprised that even their fellow mutants forgive.

    And what would happen if a nation (such as the United States) demanded that the citizens of Krakoa hand over Shaw/Apocalypse/Sinister over to "normal humans" to be prosecuted for their (past) crimes?
    Past crimes are null and void due to amnesty...but new crimes would be fair game....and that is what I am talking about. A serial case with international repurcussions. FBI, MI5, Interpol, nation-wide LE organizations and since they suspect a superhuman criminal maybe even the Avengers have a few representatives on the task force. When they catch the guy...what will Krakoa do?

    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Without so much as a bit of a wisp of smoke as the proof that a tiny fire might exist somewhere.

    Never mind someone trying to build a "Tony Montana..."-sized drug smuggling operation.

    Again, there's nothing in the books that points to that anything like this is actually taking place.
    You are focused on a "Tony Montana..." but what about just a guy muling drugs for a cartel...instead of having to risk going across borders normally he just uses the gates?

    Or a serial rapist who uses the gates to get around the world??

    And no...it has not been shown...but that does not mean it is not happening or is not going to happen.

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