Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[Sutekh]

Having said that maybe the writers instead of making everything close to perfect like with Synch could explore the other end of the spectrum, mutants being resurrected with a different adjustment to their powers or memories, kind of coz they skipped a lot of their maturation process, but I guess that would only come later as the number of resurrection cycles stack up per character. There is certainly room to explore that

Oh, there's a ton of stuff that, IMO, wants exploring on the less-well-adjusted side.

Jay Guthrie is alive and winged again. He friggin' cut his own wings off because he hated being a mutant so much and betrayed the other students to Stryker's nutjobs (who went on to kill Wallflower and blow up a bus full of de-powered students and murder him). A) What does *he* think about being alive and mutant and surrounded by other mutants in a mutant society and told he can never really die and escape this hell? B) What does everyone else, including people like Wallflower and Tag and Dryad who may have been killed because of information Stryker got from him think of him being back? C) What do the rest of his family, Sam and Paige and Melody (who friggin' died just to get her powers back!) think of Jay being back?

There's one hell of a story there. And the longer it goes without any suggestion of drama occurring in the background, the more credence it lends to the notion that Xavier is somehow messing with everyone's minds to make them compliant and accepting of this new Krakoan reality.

And that's literally just one side-story about a secondary (at best) character. There are plenty of stress points waiting to fracture and blow Krakoa wide open. Big, big drama. And far more personal than some crap about Moira, who, like, 80% of the mutants on this island have probably never even heard of, and, if told about, would be like, so what?

"So wait. Proteus' mom wasn't a mutant, but then she was, and she was dead, and now she's alive, but in hiding in a cave under the island and some sort of secret mastermind who... ultimately means absolutely nothing to me, and never has? Whatever. I'm still fat and nobody takes me seriously. Cry me a river. Buy a beer or get out." - the Blob.

[Ambaryerno]

Jay Guthrie is alive and winged again. He friggin' cut his own wings off because he hated being a mutant so much and betrayed the other students to Stryker's nutjobs (who went on to kill Wallflower and blow up a bus full of de-powered students and murder him). A) What does *he* think about being alive and mutant and surrounded by other mutants in a mutant society and told he can never really die and escape this hell? B) What does everyone else, including people like Wallflower and Tag and Dryad who may have been killed because of information Stryker got from him think of him being back? C) What do the rest of his family, Sam and Paige and Melody (who friggin' died just to get her powers back!) think of Jay being back?

But see, that would require acknowledging that the New X-Men aren't just generic background teen wallpaper, and actually had their own unique story and identity. The entire class of the New X-Men SHOULD have told Xavier and the O5+ to hit bricks a LONG time ago, and gone their separate ways at the very least after Utopia came crashing down. But Marvel has been dead-set on stripping that away.

[Zelena]

Jay Guthrie is alive and winged again. He friggin' cut his own wings off because he hated being a mutant so much and betrayed the other students to Stryker's nutjobs (who went on to kill Wallflower and blow up a bus full of de-powered students and murder him). A) What does *he* think about being alive and mutant and surrounded by other mutants in a mutant society and told he can never really die and escape this hell? B) What does everyone else, including people like Wallflower and Tag and Dryad who may have been killed because of information Stryker got from him think of him being back? C) What do the rest of his family, Sam and Paige and Melody (who friggin' died just to get her powers back!) think of Jay being back?

It must be confusing to be a reader with a memory…

[Havok83]

Oh, there's a ton of stuff that, IMO, wants exploring on the less-well-adjusted side.

Jay Guthrie is alive and winged again. He friggin' cut his own wings off because he hated being a mutant so much and betrayed the other students to Stryker's nutjobs (who went on to kill Wallflower and blow up a bus full of de-powered students and murder him). A) What does *he* think about being alive and mutant and surrounded by other mutants in a mutant society and told he can never really die and escape this hell? B) What does everyone else, including people like Wallflower and Tag and Dryad who may have been killed because of information Stryker got from him think of him being back? C) What do the rest of his family, Sam and Paige and Melody (who friggin' died just to get her powers back!) think of Jay being back?

There's one hell of a story there. And the longer it goes without any suggestion of drama occurring in the background, the more credence it lends to the notion that Xavier is somehow messing with everyone's minds to make them compliant and accepting of this new Krakoan reality.

And that's literally just one side-story about a secondary (at best) character. There are plenty of stress points waiting to fracture and blow Krakoa wide open. Big, big drama. And far more personal than some crap about Moira, who, like, 80% of the mutants on this island have probably never even heard of, and, if told about, would be like, so what?

"So wait. Proteus' mom wasn't a mutant, but then she was, and she was dead, and now she's alive, but in hiding in a cave under the island and some sort of secret mastermind who... ultimately means absolutely nothing to me, and never has? Whatever. I'm still fat and nobody takes me seriously. Cry me a river. Buy a beer or get out." - the Blob.

Jay is a D-Lister. This story isnt being told bc he's not someone that most creaters care about. They havent even played up dynamics with much more prominent mutants lik Hope interacting with Kid Cable, so its no surprised nothing is being done with jay and his former peers

[themasething]

After reading the current line of X-Men books, I'm beginning to wonder if the whole thing has brought all the mutants to being something they hate. Instead of acceptance, they've isolated, they've adopted a "superior species" mentality, they will force anyone who is born a mutant to either join them in their isolation or end up in their jail, they believe they are above all laws and are now a law unto themselves. All of this sounds like a thing that the Brotherhood of Mutants would have done back 20-30 years ago and been hated for it.

Honestly, this sounds like both sides of the political spectrum mashed together. You have the hivemind thought process and anti-society mentality to ignore laws of the American Political "Left" combined with the militant, superiority thought process of the American Political "Right". Both sides existing in an isolation from the other removed completely from the reality of the outside world (Twitter, QAnon Boards, Reddit, etc).

Stan Lee said that "Marvel will always be a window into the world around us", and if this is what the X-Men writers see, then man are we in trouble.

[Havok83]

After reading the current line of X-Men books, I'm beginning to wonder if the whole thing has brought all the mutants to being something they hate. Instead of acceptance, they've isolated, they've adopted a "superior species" mentality, they will force anyone who is born a mutant to either join them in their isolation or end up in their jail, they believe they are above all laws and are now a law unto themselves. All of this sounds like a thing that the Brotherhood of Mutants would have done back 20-30 years ago and been hated for it.

Honestly, this sounds like both sides of the political spectrum mashed together. You have the hivemind thought process and anti-society mentality to ignore laws of the American Political "Left" combined with the militant, superiority thought process of the American Political "Right". Both sides existing in an isolation from the other removed completely from the reality of the outside world (Twitter, QAnon Boards, Reddit, etc).

Stan Lee said that "Marvel will always be a window into the world around us", and if this is what the X-Men writers see, then man are we in trouble.

No mutant is forced to be on Krakoa. There are plenty of mutants in the MU that arent and the X-men have not gone around jailing anyone that has refused to join them

Krakoa exists as a haven for mutants bc time and time again the existing government structures in place in other countries have failed to protect mutants. Right before Krakoa, the U.S. passed the law to vaccinate people to eradicate the X-gene as a way to eliminate mutants. The vaccine was also given to existing mutants and it killed them. In X-men Gold, there was movement to try and deport mutants. Before this, there was the Terrigen cloud going around Earth killing mutants and not a single government stood up to protect its mutant citizens. Whats happening now isnt as simple as mutants isolating themselves as that ignores all the context surrounding the decision to value the strength in numbers approach

[Killerbee911]

After reading the current line of X-Men books, I'm beginning to wonder if the whole thing has brought all the mutants to being something they hate. Instead of acceptance, they've isolated, they've adopted a "superior species" mentality, they will force anyone who is born a mutant to either join them in their isolation or end up in their jail, they believe they are above all laws and are now a law unto themselves. All of this sounds like a thing that the Brotherhood of Mutants would have done back 20-30 years ago and been hated for it.

Honestly, this sounds like both sides of the political spectrum mashed together. You have the hivemind thought process and anti-society mentality to ignore laws of the American Political "Left" combined with the militant, superiority thought process of the American Political "Right". Both sides existing in an isolation from the other removed completely from the reality of the outside world (Twitter, QAnon Boards, Reddit, etc).

Stan Lee said that "Marvel will always be a window into the world around us", and if this is what the X-Men writers see, then man are we in trouble.

I mean if that was happening it would be horrible but what you are talking about is your head canon and is not what is going on in the books. If the X-men adopted a "superior species" mentality they would be expanding not sitting on island away from everyone. Krakoa is not perfect and its flaws is big part of this run.

I don't miss these types post which was super common at the beginning of the run and which have pretty much disappeared because Krakoa isn't some sinister thing 90% of problems on Krakoa exist from inviting villains to come on the island and those guys have their own agendas, 5% of other problems comes Beast over stepping his reach as their CIA head, 4% comes X-men themselves over stepping their reach into countries that are unfriendly to mutants, 1% is the Moria stuff is ticking timebomb. The one clear thing Krakoa its self isn't bad idea but the execution of concept/idea might be the problem. The point is Krakoa could have done with far less drama but would it have as fun to read for the fans?

[Zelena]

Stan Lee said that "Marvel will always be a window into the world around us", and if this is what the X-Men writers see, then man are we in trouble.

Each time, something that is political is shown in a media, there’s ideology.

I prefer the ideology preached by Claremont: solidarity, inclusion, equality… It’s not the world we are living in, it has never been the world we have been living in but it was more uplifting, encouraging. It gave hope. I don’t need a comic to know how the world is selfish and ugly, I hear it in the news…

The problem is not showing the world in which we are. It’s about proposing an attitude that can inspire towards this world. And what the X-men propose doesn’t interest me.

[Killerbee911]

The problem is not showing the world in which we are. It’s about proposing an attitude that can inspire towards this world. And what the X-men propose doesn’t interest me.

What message is X-men sending to its minority readers? Keep turning the other cheek and let them kill you over and over and always take the BS hand out to you. X-men is not inspiring as a minority reader. Xavier's dream was always on some level bullcrap and Krakoa era has shown why the X-men have always been reactive, Krakoa is large scale proactiveness.

[TheDeadSpace]

What message is X-men sending to its minority readers? Keep turning the other cheek and let them kill you over and over and always take the BS hand out to you. X-men is not inspiring as a minority reader. Xavier's dream was always on some level bullcrap and Krakoa era has shown why the X-men have always been reactive, Krakoa is large scale proactiveness.

I would blame the death of Xavier's dream on the writers. The X-men's main gimmick is to be hated and feared while trying to save the world; the unfortunate thing is that the attempts to maintain that idea have painted a very bleak reality. It's part of the reason the minority metaphor isn't 1:1. It's definitely a part of the books (an important part), but not something that's always present.

Each time, something that is political is shown in a media, there’s ideology.

I prefer the ideology preached by Claremont: solidarity, inclusion, equality… It’s not the world we are living in, it has never been the world we have been living in but it was more uplifting, encouraging. It gave hope. I don’t need a comic to know how the world is selfish and ugly, I hear it in the news…

The problem is not showing the world in which we are. It’s about proposing an attitude that can inspire towards this world. And what the X-men propose doesn’t interest me.

Well, the council is going to fail; that's been alluded to. Apocalypse will probably return as an antagonist and the X-men as a superhero team for Krakoa is being recreated. It seems like the concept of the X-men is still being reinforced and is probably a key part of the story for Krakoa. So, it might seem bleak and odd for now, but the story has yet to reveal its underlying theme and purpose.

There's no shame in hoping for something else. The current run is definitely not for everyone.

[Killerbee911]

I would blame the death of Xavier's dream on the writers. The X-men's main gimmick is to be hated and feared while trying to save the world; the unfortunate thing is that the attempts to maintain that idea have painted a very bleak reality. It's part of the reason the minority metaphor isn't 1:1. It's definitely a part of the books (an important part), but not something that's always present.

I get that, I am just saying , If the X-men and mutants at some point does not respond how real people would respond it does not feel aspirational and It feels like a mockery of what real life struggle looks like. People want them to ignore the world that they build with their fiction to do some empty message of hope. It is like telling a story of happy family and their home , and how family always comes together in spite of their problems and solve their issues. But this time in story the family house is burnt down and people are complaining about the story not being told the same. People are expecting the family to be same and tell same exact stories while they have no house and lose all their things.

Some fans are going "I want my message hope" to which you respond "can't you see their house is burnt, How are they suppose to act". To which they reply " In the past they were always about hope and inspiration, the story should always be about hope and inspiration." . Ignoring the house has been burned down to try to tell the same type of story as before would be wrong. People don't seem to get why the X-men are acting different and the blame the X-men when the reality is the world is reason they are different. This is not the same world Chris Claremont was writing, This is not the same world Stan Lee was writing. And factors in the world making the X-men have to be something different.

To get that style of X-men back you have roll back the world to that setting not have the X-men running around pretending like things aren't jack up.

[Kingdom X]

After reading the current line of X-Men books, I'm beginning to wonder if the whole thing has brought all the mutants to being something they hate. Instead of acceptance, they've isolated, they've adopted a "superior species" mentality, they will force anyone who is born a mutant to either join them in their isolation or end up in their jail, they believe they are above all laws and are now a law unto themselves. All of this sounds like a thing that the Brotherhood of Mutants would have done back 20-30 years ago and been hated for it.

Honestly, this sounds like both sides of the political spectrum mashed together. You have the hivemind thought process and anti-society mentality to ignore laws of the American Political "Left" combined with the militant, superiority thought process of the American Political "Right". Both sides existing in an isolation from the other removed completely from the reality of the outside world (Twitter, QAnon Boards, Reddit, etc).

Stan Lee said that "Marvel will always be a window into the world around us", and if this is what the X-Men writers see, then man are we in trouble.

While I agree that this MIGHT be commentary on how groups have become more siloed over time, I don’t know about the rest.

In the issue or CotA that just came out the X-Men talk about how they can’t force mutants to join bu they’re going to check-in on the teens just to make sure that they’re okay. And who is being jailed for not joining?!? Krakoa has actually adopted a very progressive and restorative system based on what’s happening in Hellions. They only person in “jail” is Sabertooth and that’s because *gasp* he killed humans, which doesn’t sound like a law that a “superior species” or the Brotherhood would implement.

[Frobisher]

Jay is a D-Lister. This story isnt being told bc he's not someone that most creaters care about. They havent even played up dynamics with much more prominent mutants lik Hope interacting with Kid Cable, so its no surprised nothing is being done with jay and his former peers

Correct answer. Every little piece of continuity that ever happened taking priority (what people charitably call "canon") is not a framework for good storytelling across such a vast and complex and diverse shared fictional setting - it's a straitjacket. Whenever something is brushed off, it's because it just doesn't matter that much to the story being told.

[Ambaryerno]

Correct answer. Every little piece of continuity that ever happened taking priority (what people charitably call "canon") is not a framework for good storytelling across such a vast and complex and diverse shared fictional setting - it's a straitjacket. Whenever something is brushed off, it's because it just doesn't matter that much to the story being told.

I'm sorry, but when you're literally erasing and ignoring the events that DEFINE THE CHARACTER'S IDENTITY it absolutely DOES matter.

[Sutekh]

I'm sorry, but when you're literally erasing and ignoring the events that DEFINE THE CHARACTER'S IDENTITY it absolutely DOES matter.

And, it doesn't matter that this particular story would be about Jay Guthrie (and involve his brother Sam & his sister Paige, arguably far more important characters to their respective generations of mutants than Jay ever was). I can't stand the little creep and would be fine with it if Wicked contacted his spirit in the afterlife and he chose to stay dead, rather than be resurrected.

BUT, the story of his resurrection and the consequences and the reactions of others *is* a vital story about the resurrection protocols and how people are just sort of blandly accepting this new Krakoan paradigm even if it makes zero sense for them to do so. It wouldn't be a story about Jay Guthrie, he'd just be the vehicle to explore Krakoa itself, and whether or not it has a dark underbelly, or is a ticking time bomb, or is a fragile house of cards waiting for a strong wind, or is the future of mutantkind, just getting off to a rocky start, as all fledgling nations do.

And *that* is a far more important story than Jay is, was, or ever will be. (Just as Second Coming was an important story undoing M-Day that needed to be told, and used Hope as a vehicle to do so, even though she has not been terribly important or been a staple of any teams or books since.)