Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[Lucyinthesky]

Yes I know most people don´t do it but super heros are not supposed to be most people, they are supposed to care for their actions at an ethical level, specially when it comes to the people they love, I personally would have respected his decision to leave Jean, if he truly didn´t see a way out for their marital problems given Jean insisted in exploring her new habilities and after a while start a relationship with Emma than him trying to convince Jean his relationship with Emma was "no real" because "it was just thoughts" this made him seen a flaky character who would change his relationships on a whim and then not confront his own responsibility on the matter.

But then again I also disliked to see Jean blame Emma alone and later I disliked Morrison suggesting Jean putting them together because she could not stop dying around Scott and Emma was better for him but well those are just some of my personal reasons for disliking his run in general

I just didn´t see him as this strong leader Morrison wanted to paint him as, I actually liked more Whedon and later Fraction take on him and Emma than Morrison take.

[Rev9]

Yes I know most people don´t do it but super heros are not supposed to be most people, they are supposed to care for their actions at an ethical level, specially when it comes to the people they love, I personally would have respected his decision to leave Jean, if he truly didn´t see a way out for their marital problems given Jean insisted in exploring her new habilities and after a while start a relationship with Emma than him trying to convince Jean his relationship with Emma was "no real" because "it was just thoughts" this made him seen a flaky character who would change his relationships on a whim and then not confront his own responsibility on the matter.

But then again I also disliked to see Jean blame Emma alone and later I disliked Morrison suggesting Jean putting them together because she could not stop dying around Scott and Emma was better for him but well those are just some of my personal reasons for disliking his run in general

I just didn´t see him as this strong leader Morrison wanted to paint him as, I actually liked more Whedon and later Fraction take on him and Emma than Morrison take.

For me Scott is super flaky, the worst was when after Age of X he was adamant that his iteration or version in the dystopian universe was 'fake' and 'didn't exist' to tell Joanna her feelings were false.Like even though in broad strokes yes he was right, we don't even know how the omega projected that false world, was it their astral bodies trapped in that 'trance', their real bodies kind of like how Arcade has now been messing with the Hellions?...to so quickly brush away everything that happened as fake instead of trying to get to the bottom of it was weak.I mean at a bare minimum tell Joanna , 'we were trapped in an illusion that toyed with our minds, and even though it took our insecurities and vulnerabilities and used them against us, I am with Emma' .Instead guy was throwing around it wasn't real/he didn't exist after sleeping with Joanna for years in that reality.It was spineless honestly of him not to own up to what was going on in that world even if it was not the normal situation.

[Lucyinthesky]

For me Scott is super flaky, the worst was when after Age of X he was adamant that his iteration or version in the dystopian universe was 'fake' and 'didn't exist' to tell Joanna her feelings were false.Like even though in broad strokes yes he was right, we don't even know how the omega projected that false world, was it their astral bodies trapped in that 'trance', their real bodies kind of like how Arcade has now been messing with the Hellions?...to so quickly brush away everything that happened as fake instead of trying to get to the bottom of it was weak.I mean at a bare minimum tell Joanna , 'we were trapped in an illusion that toyed with our minds, and even though it took our insecurities and vulnerabilities and used them against us, I am with Emma' .Instead guy was throwing around it wasn't real/he didn't exist after sleeping with Joanna for years in that reality.It was spineless honestly of him not to own up to what was going on in that world even if it was not the normal situation.

On this issue I don´t blame Scott, I thought it was hard for them both but more for Joanna because she´s not quite so used to live on AU sure I wish he had told her something along the lines of what you said but at least he was clear about his feelings and talked to her and I also liked how this event pushed her to become an X-man by her own will and now we can see her on SWORD.

Madelyne and Jean on a lesser level and later Emma, their situations were a lot more unclear specially since Scott himself didn´t seem to decide.

Now on Krakoa I don´t know what the deal is, Is he with Jean or not? or are they together but also seeing other people? Is he seeing Emma while Jean sees Logan? I just don´t know and at this point I am afraid to ask.

[jwatson]

while i've never had a problem with Scott and Emma have always felt in some ways the relationship only happened because of Jean's little nudge. So a part of me have always wondered would they even have gotten as far as they did if it wasn't literally Jean's final wish and push.

[SiegePerilous02]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F_JuBg38lw

This is the video at the 2:28-2:29 mark about her and Cyclops.

Listen for a KEY WORD

This doesn't bring up anything about Morrison

Moira, Colossus and Storm were characters Morrison couldn't use.

Emma replaced Moira and Colossus. I do remember both, that Scott's affair was planned prior to Emma with Storm or Moira. I also know Emma was a last minute addition as a fan on a forum suggested her

Where is this documented?

Are you deliberately being obtuse? The cheating wasn't what I meant was transgressive, and I never implied a psychic affair means it isn't cheating (heck, emotional affairs are a real thing), but that the psychic nature of the affair was clearly the great idea that Morrison had. If the affair is entirely in the mind and there's no physical aspect, is it still wrong? Yes, but Morrison intended it to be gray - unfortunately for the story, the readers didn't see it that way.

You'll have to point out where in the narrative Jean was stated as not good enough for Scott and that's why she deserved to be dead. Morrison laid no foundation for this or to keep her dead - New X-Men clearly showed (regardless of proper characterization) that Scott and Jean were no longer good for each other. And Marvel needed no excuse or pretext to kill off any of their characters or keep them dead.

Some are convinced the narrative wants us to believe Jean wasn't good enough for Scott and it was all her fault.

But the book has Wolverine, the ultimate Fanboy Favorite, tell Scott to quit being so self pitying and to give Jean more of a chance than he has to understand his issues. This wouldn't happen if we weren't meant to sympathize with Jean as much as Scott.

[Hizashi]

No, I'm not being obtuse on purpose, just by accident. I really understood that you said that it wasn't cheating.
Even on mind there isn't anothing gray about it. Morrison was wrong.

Many times: on Fraction where Scott says that she is the woman of his life, When he says to Emma that he would choose her, on Gillen that he says that Emma is what he needed. Quesada saying that Jean woudn't return because Emma was better with Scott.
I disagree, the next writers didn't misunderstood his run, they interpreted it right. It wasn't some coincidence.
Of course Marvel was following with what Morrison build, they could had choose other way but Morrison is a iconic run even if they retconned a lot from it. I'm not blaming Morrison as it was mostly future editors fault.

Well, we agree that despite Morrison's intentions, the affair was clearly wrong. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

As for the other thing, that just seems to me like Marvel just didn't want Jean around and used Scemma to justify their dumb decision. In-universe, Scott affirming his relationship with Emma is a basic function of relationships, love involves work.

The affair and keeping Jean sidelined being the most consequential things to come from Morrison's run, with nearly everything else being downplayed or ignored seems to me more like the narrative being twisted against Morrison's intentions — Jean was literally transcendental by the end of the run, coming back from the dead wouldn't have been an issue in the narrative. Marvel deliberately closed the door on that, that's not following on Morrison's foundations.

[Hizashi]

Yes I know most people don´t do it but super heros are not supposed to be most people, they are supposed to care for their actions at an ethical level, specially when it comes to the people they love, I personally would have respected his decision to leave Jean, if he truly didn´t see a way out for their marital problems given Jean insisted in exploring her new habilities and after a while start a relationship with Emma than him trying to convince Jean his relationship with Emma was "no real" because "it was just thoughts" this made him seen a flaky character who would change his relationships on a whim and then not confront his own responsibility on the matter.

But then again I also disliked to see Jean blame Emma alone and later I disliked Morrison suggesting Jean putting them together because she could not stop dying around Scott and Emma was better for him but well those are just some of my personal reasons for disliking his run in general

I just didn´t see him as this strong leader Morrison wanted to paint him as, I actually liked more Whedon and later Fraction take on him and Emma than Morrison take.

I pretty much agree with your take here, although I still largely enjoyed the run. Your criticisms are fair, and I would much rather the marriage end this way.

And yeah, Scemma was in much better hands later on.

[Rang10]

Well, we agree that despite Morrison's intentions, the affair was clearly wrong. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

As for the other thing, that just seems to me like Marvel just didn't want Jean around and used Scemma to justify their dumb decision. In-universe, Scott affirming his relationship with Emma is a basic function of relationships, love involves work.

The affair and keeping Jean sidelined being the most consequential things to come from Morrison's run, with nearly everything else being downplayed or ignored seems to me more like the narrative being twisted against Morrison's intentions — Jean was literally transcendental by the end of the run, coming back from the dead wouldn't have been an issue in the narrative. Marvel deliberately closed the door on that, that's not following on Morrison's foundations.

They didnt wanted Jean around because of Scott/Emma. The moment Scott and emma ended they brought Teen Jean and Adult jean was only ressurresct with Scott being dead.

I'm not seeing anything twisted. Jean case was the same from Byrne/Scarlet Witch: Byrne wrote the story that Bendis based on Wanda and screwed the character forever.
Writers doing bad stories always have bad consequences, there is some fault to distibute on writers of origins and editors.

Yes I know most people don´t do it but super heros are not supposed to be most people, they are supposed to care for their actions at an ethical level, specially when it comes to the people they love, I personally would have respected his decision to leave Jean, if he truly didn´t see a way out for their marital problems given Jean insisted in exploring her new habilities and after a while start a relationship with Emma than him trying to convince Jean his relationship with Emma was "no real" because "it was just thoughts" this made him seen a flaky character who would change his relationships on a whim and then not confront his own responsibility on the matter.

But then again I also disliked to see Jean blame Emma alone and later I disliked Morrison suggesting Jean putting them together because she could not stop dying around Scott and Emma was better for him but well those are just some of my personal reasons for disliking his run in general

I just didn´t see him as this strong leader Morrison wanted to paint him as, I actually liked more Whedon and later Fraction take on him and Emma than Morrison take.

If Claremont was sour with Scott abandoning his son and Maddie, for me the tipping point was the cheating on Jean and choosing Emma.
He always treated women badly, so he isn't the same hero for me. heroes doesn't have to be perfect but Cyclops committed too many mistakes including sacrificing his friends and using kids as soldiers

[Lucyinthesky]

I pretty much agree with your take here, although I still largely enjoyed the run. Your criticisms are fair, and I would much rather the marriage end this way.

And yeah, Scemma was in much better hands later on.

There are some aspects of his run I enjoy, I liked his take on Jean/Phoenix, Sage, Bishop and Emma but the affair was not one of them and yes Whedon actually made me enjoy Schema as it´s own thing.

They didnt wanted Jean around because of Scott/Emma. The moment Scott and emma ended they brought Teen Jean and Adult jean was only ressurresct with Scott being dead.

I'm not seeing anything twisted. Jean case was the same from Byrne/Scarlet Witch: Byrne wrote the story that Bendis based on Wanda and screwed the character forever.
Writers doing bad stories always have bad consequences, there is some fault to distibute on writers of origins and editors.


If Claremont was sour with Scott abandoning his son and Maddie, for me the tipping point was the cheating on Jean and choosing Emma.
He always treated women badly, so he isn't the same hero for me. heroes doesn't have to be perfect but Cyclops committed too many mistakes including sacrificing his friends and using kids as soldiers

Agreed about Jean and Maddie, he even ended on very bad terms with Emma, it wasn´t all the phoenix fault, their relationship became toxic and they were both at fault.

But I disagree about him turning kids into soldiers, most of the time he used grown up X-men for the missions while the younger generation was expected to know how to defend themselves but not have dangerous missions on their own, it was more a case of the context being dangerous for everyone including them, especially on Utopia, this is why I disagree with the Schism argument between Logan and Scott because Logan certainly didn´t send Rahne on her way on the X-force books. If marvel wanted to make a Schism story anyway Storm or Kurt or Kitty made more sense as Scott´s ideological opposition than Logan given the number of secrets they shared at the time.

[Havok83]

The X-men have been using kids as soldiers since day one but it only became a problem when Cyclops did even though no one had a problem with it the week before it became an issue

[Lucyinthesky]

Well the O5 certainly were kid soldiers, the All New X-men were mature adults, the New mutants were children but they mostly seek to have adventures of their own despite their mentors wishes, until they became X-force under Cable, who also had to learn to fight quite young, X-factor were mostly young adults or mature adults, same with Excalibur, Generation X were students, the New X-men were also students but they got to live the worst time for mutankind with the decimation and everything else. It´s a mixed situation.

Still I think Charles should get a little more criticism for beggining the X-men with such young students instead of looking for more mature mutants to fight for his dream, because we could argue Scott was simply following what he learned from his mentor but to his credit he tried to keep the younger students safe even when it was virtually impossible for him to do so like during Second Coming, they had literal sentinels raining on Utopia, not much room to keep people safe there.

[butterflykyss]

Hickman has done a good job making characters i didnt particularly fancy into much more likeable characters. I like Cyclops so much better under Hickman. The rightclops character was annoying.

Also, I know some don't like his jean but I think returning her to a version before phoenix and allowing her to have an identity outside of that power boost in the long haul will be a great thing for the character.

[Havok83]

Hickman has done a good job making characters i didnt particularly fancy into much more likeable characters. I like Cyclops so much better under Hickman. The rightclops character was annoying.

Also, I know some don't like his jean but I think returning her to a version before phoenix and allowing her to have an identity outside of that power boost in the long haul will be a great thing for the character.

We already saw that done better in the ResurrXion era and it was done without regressing and severely downplaying her abilities. The PF was removed from her in a controversial way but the line used that to develop Jean as a character and push her forward in a strong leading role that highlighted her strengths in spite of that. The current era has done none of that for Jean. She lost the PF AND most of the awesome development she got without it during Red and as a Teen. She's lacked an identity outside of being a mother, wife and Logan's concubine. Her new role as co-lead of the X-men is hopeful in terms of changing that but we cant safely say that yet

I respect your opinion but Hickman's Cyclops is boring. He uses him alot but does nothing interesting with him. As terrible as the Rosenberg run was, I felt his Cyclops nat least had more personality as the desperation and depression really informed his actions. Hickman's Scott is just bland and the only thing that stands out about him is that he's a dad

[Doom'nGloom]

I dislike the fact that most of the time artists draw magneto like a fitness model. Despite the age resets dude's old with white hair and all. There is no reason for him to look like captain america. It's not like he gets in fistfights.

[Havok83]

I dislike the fact that most of the time artists draw magneto like a fitness model. Despite the age resets dude's old with white hair and all. There is no reason for him to look like captain america. It's not like he gets in fistfights.

A mutant's power is their muscle. He burns alot of energy using it so it would make sense that he and most mutants would have a high metabolism and for the most part fit bodies especially if its used often and at the high levels that he does