Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[The Regent]

Magneto's greatest character design ever was in X-Men Evolution.

[Celestialbodies]

Hickman is my favorite writer of this era with Wells as a close second.....


But almost every character he has written outside of Apocalypse, Magneto, Destiny, Sinister, Wolverine, Mystique and maybe Moira are severely lacking even the characters he enjoys like Emma aren't very well written by him prominent yes, well written no. Black Swan is a much better Emma insert than what we've gotten in this era, surprisingly though his Cyclops is probably my favorite iteration of the character.

I imagined he was going to be the Second coming of Morrison with big ideas and interpersonal conflicts, my own fault, but I think after reading Inferno #3. I realized just how lacking and abysmal his use of the X-men proper were, and my God his Xavier has GOT to be the most inept, easily duped Xavier I think I've ever read. Has there been a single moment Xavier under Hickman hasn't come off as overtly arrogant and incredibly ill-prepared?


EDIT--His Nightcrawler is pretty great, that Orchis scene between him and Wolverine is probably the most beautifully romantic exchange we've had this entire era.

[Habis]

So because the mutants are putting themselves first and not rushing to save everyone else all the time suddenly they should be removed from the Universe? Not to mention there is still the X-men team that was created to appease people who just "want mutants to be super heroes"

The problem is, the current attitude of the mutants, what they have been doing (allying with Apocalypse, trying to use parasitic plant biotech to spy on humans, blocking the SOS signals from Hulkling, manipulating the minds of UN representatives, planning to destabilize non-allied governments, trying to prevent humans to communicate with aliens) and saying (accusing humans of being genocidal monsters every other minute), can only be justified if all the humans are a monstrous racist mass; otherwise, the mutants are the villains.

But you can't have your classic super-hero dynamics in a world populated only by genocidal racists... it just doesn't work... If Humanity were as bad as the x-books claim they are, then Dr. Doom is the true hero in the Marvel Universe, the strong hand that would force that planet of villains towards the right path, and the 4F, the Avengers the Defenders...etc. are just deluded fools who are getting in the way of what have to be done...

Either humans are evil, mutants are right, and heroes are stupid, or humans aren't evil, mutants are delusional about the nature of humans, and heroes are justified...

It's one of either... you can't have a story about heroes in a world of black-hearted monsters.

So you are moving the goal post. The only way that you consider someone a villain is if they are trying to destroy Krakoa. That's a very narrow view of what a villain is. villains have many different agendas and goals. Just because some of them are not aiming that at Krakoa doesn't mean they are not villains

You went from oh everyone is allied to Krakoa to oh they have to be trying to destroy Krakoa even though I gave clear examples of people who are clearly not on the same page with the rest of Krakoa

Nope. I haven't moved anything. I mentioned Orchis as the only true enemy of Krakoa, and explicitly said that everybody else were "lesser foes".

As you yourself have mentioned, the mutants aren't heroes anymore, they are working only to protect themselves, so their foes are those who threaten Krakoa.

But Tarn, Mr. Sinister, Amahl Farouk aren't enemies of Krakoa; they just want to steer Krakoa (or Arakko) towards their own goals.

The only true enemies of Krakoa are Orchis, Nimrod, the Omega Sentinel and their human allies. Even Mikhail is aligned with a anti-mutant racist human faction...

Besides Mikhail (and maybe the Fenris twins, but these two are small potatoes) these other antagonists (Tarn, Sinister, Amahl Farouk) are working or would work to support Krakoa against a human aggression. So it looks like the main conflict is between racial groups.

[Grunty]

Magneto's greatest character design ever was in X-Men Evolution.

Not sure if it would be as controversial, but the show also has the best design for the big Sentinels in my opinion.

Though i have to admit, i loath the classic 20 meter tall purple sentinels with the Eastern Island statue (Moai) faces. Never could take them serious, especialy when they can somehow fly and yet it seems all the tech required for building and mass producing them never caused a massive arms race across the globe to break out (see Iron Man 2 for example), instead everyone seems to be cool with them existing soley to fight a tiny minority of specifically super powered people.

Meanwhile the Evolution version has a much more sensible height for a combat droid, was created by a shady small organization in secrecy and lacks the weird faces.

[Outburstz]

The problem is, the current attitude of the mutants, what they have been doing (allying with Apocalypse, trying to use parasitic plant biotech to spy on humans, blocking the SOS signals from Hulkling, manipulating the minds of UN representatives, planning to destabilize non-allied governments, trying to prevent humans to communicate with aliens) and saying (accusing humans of being genocidal monsters every other minute), can only be justified if all the humans are a monstrous racist mass; otherwise, the mutants are the villains.


But you can't have your classic super-hero dynamics in a world populated only by genocidal racists... it just doesn't work... If Humanity were as bad as the x-books claim they are, then Dr. Doom is the true hero in the Marvel Universe, the strong hand that would force that planet of villains towards the right path, and the 4F, the Avengers the Defenders...etc. are just deluded fools who are getting in the way of what have to be done...

Either humans are evil, mutants are right, and heroes are stupid, or humans aren't evil, mutants are delusional about the nature of humans, and heroes are justified...

It's one of either... you can't have a story about heroes in a world of black-hearted monsters.

That first part was all Brand and she clearly said that she doesn't work for Krakoa she does what she thinks is best for sol/galaxy.

In what jacked up mindset does every human need to be racist in order for mutants to receive racism? There just need to be enough in order to justify mutants not feeling safe. With too many anti mutant organizations to count, governments and even religion groups both pre and post Krakoa.

Nope. I haven't moved anything. I mentioned Orchis as the only true enemy of Krakoa, and explicitly said that everybody else were "lesser foes".

As you yourself have mentioned, the mutants aren't heroes anymore, they are working only to protect themselves, so their foes are those who threaten Krakoa.

But Tarn, Mr. Sinister, Amahl Farouk aren't enemies of Krakoa; they just want to steer Krakoa (or Arakko) towards their own goals.

The only true enemies of Krakoa are Orchis, Nimrod, the Omega Sentinel and their human allies. Even Mikhail is aligned with a anti-mutant racist human faction...

Besides Mikhail (and maybe the Fenris twins, but these two are small potatoes) these other antagonists (Tarn, Sinister, Amahl Farouk) are working or would work to support Krakoa against a human aggression. So it looks like the main conflict is between racial groups.

Onslaught was also another mutant villain just thought of that

Just because they are on the island doesn't mean they are doing what they are doing for the betterment of Krakoa. They also don't need to be attacking Krakoa in order to be villain.

Case and point if a mutant he goes around mass murdering humans (Nature girl) that is a villain just because they are not Krakoa's enemy does not make them not a villain.

Case 2 a mutant is on Krakoa but secretly wants to take over the whole thing to rule it forcefully. Krakoa would still be intact and he would still work to protect it but such a move would make that person a villain

Case 3 a person using Krakoa's gifts in order to further individual plans of villainy

[Covetous_One]

That first part was all Brand and she clearly said that she doesn't work for Krakoa she does what she thinks is best for sol/galaxy.

In what jacked up mindset does every human need to be racist in order for mutants to receive racism? There just need to be enough in order to justify mutants not feeling safe. With too many anti mutant organizations to count, governments and even religion groups both pre and post Krakoa.


Onslaught was also another mutant villain just thought of that

Just because they are on the island doesn't mean they are doing what they are doing for the betterment of Krakoa. They also don't need to be attacking Krakoa in order to be villain.

Case and point if a mutant he goes around mass murdering humans (Nature girl) that is a villain just because they are not Krakoa's enemy does not make them not a villain.

Case 2 a mutant is on Krakoa but secretly wants to take over the whole thing to rule it forcefully. Krakoa would still be intact and he would still work to protect it but such a move would make that person a villain

Case 3 a person using Krakoa's gifts in order to further individual plans of villainy

Brand is still considered an agent of Krakoa regardless of how she feels. Even Magneto said in issue 1 that Krakoa is funding SWORD so Krakoa and by extinction mutants would still be held responsible for her actions regardless

[Outburstz]

Brand is still considered an agent of Krakoa regardless of how she feels. Even Magneto said in issue 1 that Krakoa is funding SWORD so Krakoa and by extinction mutants would still be held responsible for her actions regardless

We are not disagreeing that Krakoa could face blowback for her choice but it was her choice only. No one gave her those orders no one else even knows what she did. She went rogue. That wasn't a group decision by mutants to screw over Hulkling which is what he tried to say.

[Covetous_One]

We are not disagreeing that Krakoa could face blowback for her choice but it was her choice only. No one gave her those orders no one else even knows what she did. She went rogue. That wasn't a group decision by mutants to screw over Hulkling which is what he tried to say.

Oh… Though still that is in line with the current mentality that mutants should be in charge of everything. I mean Beast initially started the coup in Terra Verde, then roped others into it and only stopped after Emma shut it and his spy plant network down. Just like Brand has included others in some schemes, just not that one.

[The Regent]

I couldn't agree more... those sentinels looked so goofy in the original Animated Series it was ridiculous.

[The Regent]

Not sure if it would be as controversial, but the show also has the best design for the big Sentinels in my opinion.

Though i have to admit, i loath the classic 20 meter tall purple sentinels with the Eastern Island statue (Moai) faces. Never could take them serious, especialy when they can somehow fly and yet it seems all the tech required for building and mass producing them never caused a massive arms race across the globe to break out (see Iron Man 2 for example), instead everyone seems to be cool with them existing soley to fight a tiny minority of specifically super powered people.

Meanwhile the Evolution version has a much more sensible height for a combat droid, was created by a shady small organization in secrecy and lacks the weird faces.

Couldn't agree more... those sentinels looked so goofy in the original Animated Series it was ridiculous.

[rcaguy]

Under the circumstances if do not hear the words extinction or decimation for the next four years would be already happy. It is time for X-men leave the survival plot aside and come back to fight for the dream.This does not mean leave the schism it was a necessary evil as the X-mens need ideologies opposed but at least focus on the goal than differences and internal conflicts.

Fight for what? SHEILD to come along and take over the mansion/school again?

[Su_Whisterfield]

Hickman is my favorite writer of this era with Wells as a close second.....


But almost every character he has written outside of Apocalypse, Magneto, Destiny, Sinister, Wolverine, Mystique and maybe Moira are severely lacking even the characters he enjoys like Emma aren't very well written by him prominent yes, well written no. Black Swan is a much better Emma insert than what we've gotten in this era, surprisingly though his Cyclops is probably my favorite iteration of the character.

I imagined he was going to be the Second coming of Morrison with big ideas and interpersonal conflicts, my own fault, but I think after reading Inferno #3. I realized just how lacking and abysmal his use of the X-men proper were, and my God his Xavier has GOT to be the most inept, easily duped Xavier I think I've ever read. Has there been a single moment Xavier under Hickman hasn't come off as overtly arrogant and incredibly ill-prepared?


EDIT--His Nightcrawler is pretty great, that Orchis scene between him and Wolverine is probably the most beautifully romantic exchange we've had this entire era.

Given how many slash stories I’ve written about these two, this is going to sound daft, but I think that scene is a beautiful, incredibly rare example of love between two men that isn’t romantic.
It’s one thing to die beside your lover/spouse/partner but doing the same for your teammate/comrade/friend elevates it beyond sex.

And, just when I thought it was a flash in the pan, Hickman went and did it again in Xmen Infinity. This time played for laughs.

Logan looking at beer.
6E4B3D76-1EC2-4D1F-8ACA-A5B4228307D7.jpg

Looking at Kurt.
C759C319-E34C-4DAD-A267-AFE64534AEC0.jpg

[marhawkman]

Couldn't agree more... those sentinels looked so goofy in the original Animated Series it was ridiculous.

Well it is something extremely intimidating. But that goes for EVERYONE. Like Grunty said they're huge and have massive firepower. Heck... they've attacked the AVENGERS! It doesn't logically make sense for organizations like SHIELD to be cool with their existence. But while the giant ones are worst here... all of them fit the bill.

[Zelena]

Well it is something extremely intimidating. But that goes for EVERYONE. Like Grunty said they're huge and have massive firepower. Heck... they've attacked the AVENGERS! It doesn't logically make sense for organizations like SHIELD to be cool with their existence. But while the giant ones are worst here... all of them fit the bill.

The mutants may cause damage, but these Sentinels, logically, should also cause massive damage.

If they are a remedy against the mutants, I have the impression that the cure is worse than the disease…

[Habis]

They know the Sentinels are a bad idea. They were built with tech leaked by Kang the Conqueror (under the fake identity of Victor Timely) to the engineer Phineas T. Horton, builder of the original Human Torch android. Since they were built with poorly understood tech from the future, Sentinels can't be fixed, and they will always risk turning murderous, plus Kang can hack them and take control of them any time he wants.

The problem is, bad as they are, Sentinels are almost the only weapon human governments can build that can threaten superhumans, so they keep them as a last resort... sort of "if you turn against us, we will activate the Sentinels and drag you to hell with us..."; an assured mutual destruction dissuasive strategy, similar to the nuclear bombs during the Cold War...