Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[Saithor]

Would it be a comic book if everything went according to plan?

You misunderstand my complaint. These people are supposedly smarter than this. They've done their song and dance with similar villains, hell with Sinister himself if I remember correctly. No one ever learns.

Edit: Oh, and back to my original complaint, pick someone besides the Nazi scientist as your token evil teamate for a minority group writers. That or at least write it better. God I hope Gillen remembers about Nosferatu.

[marhawkman]

Coexistence is certainly easier when human populations were sparse on the surface on the Earth and there was no competition for the ressources. On the contrary, cooperation was needed to hunt big game.

But the humans of this time didn’t have probably the same notion of race as we do nowadays. The stranger who could constitute a threat was simply the man from the tribe on the other side of the hill and he had the same appearance as them.

“The World Until Yesterday” is a interesting book from Jared Diamond.

The modern concept of race is... artificial and not based on anything used historically. So yeah. the equivalent concept to the modern idea of "race" was... tribal affiliation. which gives you thousands of "races". It's way more complicated, but honestly makes more sense than trying to take everyone on Earth and put them in one of 4 categories.

I think you need to talk to the many hate groups of mutants who believe otherwise. There were multiple stories lines of the idea that mutants were going to out breed normal humans. Since humans could make mutants as well as mutants breeding with each other have a high chance of making a mutant. The idea of a world were mutants were the majority and the idea of humans being the minority.

the funny thing there is that it's been shown that it's always latent Mutants, not non-Mutants.

Again I still don't get your point. There are many ways for humans to get powers but they are not from being human.

Actuallly..... Celestial tinkering may be the reason "normal" Humans in the Marvel universe have the latent potential to get powers from stuff like radiation exposure.... instead of dying, like people IRL would do.

Well, humans have several Hulks, Dr. Sampson, Blue Marvel, Sentry, Monica Rambeau, Carol Denvers, Comet Man, Marvel Boy, Thing, Human Torch, Invisble Woman, Mr. Fantastic, Spider-man, Spider-woman, Madam Web, Wasp, Ant-man, Graviton, Sundown, Abomination, Rhino, Sundragon, Firebird... etc.

Many of these can pass down their powers to their children.

And evolution isn't a prophecy and it doesn't work in steps: A species doesn't simply disappear just because another one evolved from it, and several different species can evolve from a common ancestor: coyotes, jackals and wolves all are descended from a common ancestor quite recently; same for brown and polar bears...

There is no reason mutants and humans couldn't coexist side by side. Or other species could evolve from humans beside mutants, like the descendants of Hulk, the 4F, Carol Denvers, Marvel Boy, Comet Man... etc., could pass their powers to all of Humanity...

EDIT: Homo Erectus coexisted with its descendants Homo Ancestor, Homo Heidelbergensis, Homo Neanderthalensis and Homo Sapiens for almost 800,000 years.

Well a lot of anthropologists think that modern Humans are actually descended from ALL of those, soo... yeah.... Neanderthals aren't actually extinct. also... isn't Carol powered because of Kree genes? Soo... some sort of hybrid? But yeah, Kree/Human hybrids are definitely a thing that has happened.

I'm surprised how many X-men fans like Krakoa given how badly it mangles the minority metaphor.

Krakoa seems to be saying "You'll never fit in. You'll never be accepted. You'll only be happy with your own kind. You should go live somewhere else."

Yeah, really, I talked about this before. It's a sudden reversal of philosophy.

I don't think that's actually true. Still though, that's basically Garveyism so there is precedent for that attitude being applied to civil rights struggles. Sigh, I wish we could get more X-Writers who are actually people of color. I don't know if Hickman was thinking of Garveyism when he created Krakoa but how amazing would it be to have a writer actually explore those themes, on purpose?

It's even more interesting when it's the advocates of the "PoC" group that are pushing the idea.

[Agent Z]

I think you need to talk to the many hate groups of mutants who believe otherwise. There were multiple stories lines of the idea that mutants were going to out breed normal humans. Since humans could make mutants as well as mutants breeding with each other have a high chance of making a mutant. The idea of a world were mutants were the majority and the idea of humans being the minority.

This is based on the Great Replacement Theory, which was put forth by a white nationalist conspiracy theorist. If the X-books actually believe this, then they are essentially arguing that the racists are right.

[marhawkman]

You misunderstand my complaint. These people are supposedly smarter than this. They've done their song and dance with similar villains, hell with Sinister himself if I remember correctly. No one ever learns.

Edit: Oh, and back to my original complaint, pick someone besides the Nazi scientist as your token evil teamate for a minority group writers. That or at least write it better. God I hope Gillen remembers about Nosferatu.

"Token evil"? They have like several of them. Selene, Apocalypse, Exodus...... f-ing EMPLATE!!!!

Yeah... apparently Marius St. Croix is the reason(indirectly) Shard Bishop died. Whoo boy... yeah.... that's a connect-the-dots story thread that's screwball to try to figure out.

[marhawkman]

This is based on the Great Replacement Theory, which was put forth by a white nationalist conspiracy theorist. If the X-books actually believe this, then they are essentially arguing that the racists are right.

Also it's rooted in the idea of genetic purity, and doesn't really have much of any truth behind it.

[Outburstz]

This is based on the Great Replacement Theory, which was put forth by a white nationalist conspiracy theorist. If the X-books actually believe this, then they are essentially arguing that the racists are right.

Cassandra Nova and Wanda crippled the mutant population so I guess we have to wait for all 16 million mutants plus new births to see

[Saithor]

This is based on the Great Replacement Theory, which was put forth by a white nationalist conspiracy theorist. If the X-books actually believe this, then they are essentially arguing that the racists are right.

It's been cannon since Morrison's run at least. Which I don't blame them for, when they wrote it I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't aware it was a thing. Current writer's have no excuse. Fix this crap.

"Token evil"? They have like several of them. Selene, Apocalypse, Exodus...... f-ing EMPLATE!!!!

Yeah... apparently Marius St. Croix is the reason(indirectly) Shard Bishop died. Whoo boy... yeah.... that's a connect-the-dots story thread that's screwball to try to figure out.

Mastermind, Dakken, I think Bishop just got done with a genocide of some kind, Vulcan, Emma depending on how much you believe her reasons for being involved with Mothervine...actually at this point can we entirely blame humanity for being wary of the island harboring individuals who have at one point or another attempted various flavors of genocide, serial rapists, and mass murderers?

Like, Orchis is actually racist but it would be completely possible for a decent chunk of humanity to be fine with Mutants as a whole but really dislike Krakoa for harboring these people, same reason why people who are okay with Jews can really hate Israel for what they do in Palestine.

Cassandra Nova and Wanda crippled the mutant population so I guess we have to wait for all 16 million mutants plus new births to see

No, we don't, it's been a cannon fact determined for at least since Morrison. This is why I say they broke the metaphor.

[Outburstz]

No, we don't, it's been a cannon fact determined for at least since Morrison. This is why I say they broke the metaphor.

Buddy I know it's a fact I was the one that brought it up. I'm saying that mutants are currently not even close to having the same population back on earth yet because they are still being brought back to life. Since the Arrako mutants are on another planet.

[king of hybrids]

Then your statement makes even less sense. If you are worried about a lack of villians make more non mutant villians.

There is also nothing stopping some trouble maker mutants on Krakoa to spice things up as well but I don't see this need to blow up Krakoa and go back to that mansion/school

Worried about a "lack of stacks" because mutants have conquered death. Hate to break it to you but that ship sailed many years before Krakoa showed up

There are plenty of stories you can tell about all the interactions with past heroes and villians , reunions with dead friends and family, how dead or depowered mutants feel about their killer, new rivalries with nations , galactic politics , development of mutant culture, learning about past mutant history/traditions/magic through Arrako, intersectionality between different mutants, non human vs human looking mutant dynamics, true believers of Krakoa vs those using it for other reasons,

I can go on but I made my point. Acting like Krakoa is a road block to story telling is false.

How is me saying the rest of Marvel should follow in the X-Men’s example and untether themselves from pretending to be the real world plus superpowers construed anti-Krakoan sentiment?

[davetvs]

Mastermind, Dakken, I think Bishop just got done with a genocide of some kind, Vulcan, Emma depending on how much you believe her reasons for being involved with Mothervine...actually at this point can we entirely blame humanity for being wary of the island harboring individuals who have at one point or another attempted various flavors of genocide, serial rapists, and mass murderers?

How is this different than any other country? Not arguing that it's morally right, but world governments are practically universally corrupt, without the benefit of providing lifesaving drugs to the rest of the world.

[king of hybrids]

Speaking of, this isn’t limited to the Krakoan era, but reading into it it’s kind of disturbing hy w much they’ve downplayed/excused a lot of Akihiro being a murderer and rapist since they decided to anti-hero him

Also, he needs a different code/mutant name

[Omega Alpha]

I don't know. Personally speaking, I try to stay as far away from genocidal megalomaniacs as possible.

If you're in Krakoa, you are much safer from genocidal maniacs than you are outside of it. Just think of what your average government of the world can do when a genocidal tyrant with a military or paramilitary structure trying to kill his countrymen can do versus what Krakoa can do- and that's not even bringing the likes of Kang or Ultron to the discussion. Plus, I doubt the average Krakoan has much contact in their daily lives with Sinister or Apocalypse.

Again, if you're not a Musk-Bezos type of billionaire who has all the access to things and power money can buy and you're still saying you wouldn't want anything to do with Krakoa, you're either lying or deluding yourself. Think of how most of mankind toll in their lives in a crap job for low pay, living in a crap place, just to scrape by or getting enough money to eat, pay their utilities bill and for health treatments for them or loved ones. Krakoa eliminates all of that, plus if you die, you get instant resurrection, and you have a tropical paradise as scenario.

Because to me it makes sense that they needed him in order to help out mutant kind to make them immortal. No one ever confused Sinister with a good person but the benefit they he gave to mutants was too valuable. This idea Krakoa needs to be the pinnacle of morals and goodness is in your head. They are making a deal with the devil in order to help mutants.

Everyone and their grandma knows that he will betray them that's not even a secret but they need him for the DNA samples.

Plus, you know, Sinister is virtually impossible to kill. It's not like the X-men haven't tried before.

[RachelGrey]

If you're in Krakoa, you are much safer from genocidal maniacs than you are outside of it. Just think of what your average government of the world can do when a genocidal tyrant with a military or paramilitary structure trying to kill his countrymen can do versus what Krakoa can do- and that's not even bringing the likes of Kang or Ultron to the discussion. Plus, I doubt the average Krakoan has much contact in their daily lives with Sinister or Apocalypse.

Again, if you're not a Musk-Bezos type of billionaire who has all the access to things and power money can buy and you're still saying you wouldn't want anything to do with Krakoa, you're either lying or deluding yourself. Think of how most of mankind toll in their lives in a crap job for low pay, living in a crap place, just to scrape by or getting enough money to eat, pay their utilities bill and for health treatments for them or loved ones. Krakoa eliminates all of that, plus if you die, you get instant resurrection, and you have a tropical paradise as scenario.



Plus, you know, Sinister is virtually impossible to kill. It's not like the X-men haven't tried before.

It's been made pretty clear that both Emma and Magneto want to find a way to keep the genetic database and get rid of Sinister because he is a threat to everyone both human and mutant.

[Outburstz]

How is me saying the rest of Marvel should follow in the X-Men’s example and untether themselves from pretending to be the real world plus superpowers construed anti-Krakoan sentiment?

You said


So long as the Marvel universe is bound to ‘the world outside your window’ the Krakoan status quo is ultimately doomed to be reverted at some stage.

I said I don't see why that is the case when there are already fictional lands in the Marvel right now Krakoa can just be one of these lands like Wakanda and it's empire, Latveria , where ever Silver Sabre is from, etc

[Zelena]

They don't show any emotional reaction at all. They don't show doubts. Half the books should be about the X-Men coming to terms with the fact that they are living with these monsters.

I can’t help remembering the hard time they gave to Rogue, for having been in the Brotherhood of Mutants. The X-men didn’t accept her in their team just because Xavier told them to do so.

But Claremont was a better writer than Hickman and co. are and knew better human soul and feelings…

The X-men stories is just now an endless attempt to do something new with something old and the things that are cumbersome are just thrown away, ignored… These “changes”, “evolution” feels more like “tabula rasa” than anything else.