Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[Sutekh]

You two guys made me realise one (of the many) weirdness of this K-era. Not necessary a bad thing but a sore incongruity: tha this Apocalypse does not seem the same person we saw in past. Of all the "irredeemable" bad guys that joined that endless party that is krakoa society Apocalypse is the one that seem out of nowhere completely different every time we see him, as literally every appearance eof his seem a different personality.
To the point that briefly I almost thought that was Evan/genesis cosplaying as big A. But is not the case. Still. Somethings is off with Apoc characterization.

He seems to have suffered the same 'I'll abandon my past beliefs to give Krakoa a chance' plot-required-personality-transplant as all of the good-guy mutants who are equally accepting of him, Selene, Sinister, Shadow King, Emplate, etc. creeping around the island.

A select few seem to have made their saving throw. The Morlocks, a large chunk of whom refused to settle on the island and living in a gated community in Arizona for one (and some Morlocks *on* the island attacked Greycrow in retaliation for the Morlock Massacre!). Sway and Petra, wanting nothing to do with the island *that ate them* and spending their new lives drunk and passed out in Vulcan's room on the moon.

But others? Monet seems just peachy with Marius hanging around. Rachel and Magma, among others, rub shoulders with Selene. Karma, until recently, seemed to have no qualms about Shadow King grooming with young mutants nominally placed under the New Mutants supervision, despite some personal history with the dude. Apocalypse and Cyclops have hung out and had drinks together at the bar, despite a fraught history of one possessing the other and turning him into a Horseman of Death and making him attack his friends.

It's easy to speculate that Charles might have given everyone a dose of mellow with a subliminal psychic broadcast of 'give peace a chance.' Or Krakoa, who is explicitly psychically feeding on all of them, might be blunting the sharp edges and helping keep the peace, as the ultimate predator doesn't want his kibble to go fighting each other and killing each other.

Ultimately, it seems like this blithe acceptance of various genocidal nutjobs and personal nemeses and immortal predators and serial abusers is seen necessary for the plot to continue, whether or not it's got an in-story explanation or not.

[Kingdom X]

He seems to have suffered the same 'I'll abandon my past beliefs to give Krakoa a chance' plot-required-personality-transplant as all of the good-guy mutants who are equally accepting of him, Selene, Sinister, Shadow King, Emplate, etc. creeping around the island.

A select few seem to have made their saving throw. The Morlocks, a large chunk of whom refused to settle on the island and living in a gated community in Arizona for one (and some Morlocks *on* the island attacked Greycrow in retaliation for the Morlock Massacre!). Sway and Petra, wanting nothing to do with the island *that ate them* and spending their new lives drunk and passed out in Vulcan's room on the moon.

But others? Monet seems just peachy with Marius hanging around. Rachel and Magma, among others, rub shoulders with Selene. Karma, until recently, seemed to have no qualms about Shadow King grooming with young mutants nominally placed under the New Mutants supervision, despite some personal history with the dude. Apocalypse and Cyclops have hung out and had drinks together at the bar, despite a fraught history of one possessing the other and turning him into a Horseman of Death and making him attack his friends.

It's easy to speculate that Charles might have given everyone a dose of mellow with a subliminal psychic broadcast of 'give peace a chance.' Or Krakoa, who is explicitly psychically feeding on all of them, might be blunting the sharp edges and helping keep the peace, as the ultimate predator doesn't want his kibble to go fighting each other and killing each other.

Ultimately, it seems like this blithe acceptance of various genocidal nutjobs and personal nemeses and immortal predators and serial abusers is seen necessary for the plot to continue, whether or not it's got an in-story explanation or not.

Ok but have Monet, Rachel, and Magma interacted with those respective antagonists in this era?You can’t really call their behavior OOC when they didn’t have much say in inviting the villains to the island. Were they supposed to start campaigns to get them removed or something? Most likely they’ve been avoiding them.

And I dunno how that was your takeaway from Karma’s role in NM. Shadow King was hiding his involvement with the kids and the minute that Karma found out that Rahne was involved with him the first thing that she said was to be careful because of what the Shadow King did to her.

Based on Lost’s arc and even how Logan responds to Omega Red when he first showed up, I’m sure several mutants still have personal vendettas against other individuals on the island, but is that enough to leave the entire country?

[Baron of Faltine]

Ok but have Monet, Rachel, and Magma interacted with those respective antagonists in this era?You can’t really call their behavior OOC when they didn’t have much say in inviting the villains to the island. Were they supposed to start campaigns to get them removed or something? Most likely they’ve been avoiding them.

And I dunno how that was your takeaway from Karma’s role in NM. Shadow King was hiding his involvement with the kids and the minute that Karma found out that Rahne was involved with him the first thing that she said was to be careful because of what the Shadow King did to her.

Based on Lost’s arc and even how Logan responds to Omega Red when he first showed up, I’m sure several mutants still have personal vendettas against other individuals on the island, but is that enough to leave the entire country?

No but is enough to start a civil war. Or at least an attempt at political coup.

[Kingdom X]

No but is enough to start a civil war. Or at least an attempt at political coup.

The solution is starting wars and destabilizing governments over one person? I understand appealing to the QC or protesting against inviting these people in, but how is it heroic to make your personal vendetta everyone on the island’s problem by starting a civil war that they’ll get caught in, thus weakening their new nation and making it vulnerable for outside attacks.

[Saithor]

The solution is starting wars and destabilizing governments over one person? I understand appealing to the QC or protesting against inviting these people in, but how is it heroic to make your personal vendetta everyone on the island’s problem by starting a civil war that they’ll get caught in, thus weakening their new nation and making it vulnerable for outside attacks.

I don’t necessarily want a civil war over a single villain (I could see one eventually breaking out because of the Quiet Council or to overthrow the Quiet Council, but that is a different topic), but things like what happened with Greycrow should be more prevalent tbh. Excalibur made a big game about how mutants still don’t trust Apocalypse, but that was mostly just Gambit, and the book itself just framed it as him being overtly paranoid. Gorgon’s introduction was him literally feeding the kid of one of Wolverine’s friends to pigs, so no I don’t really think it is in character for Wolverine to share a beer with him. X-factor went out of its way to try and retcon Dakken out of being a serial rapist in order to not address that (and honestly I don’t think “Oh, my powers only force you to fall in love with me if some physical attraction exists” is the way to have tried to make what he did not-rape.) it feels like Hickman wanted a status quo he wanted to get to, but him or someone wanted it estabilished asap, so they’ve been wallpapering over the cracks they made rushing it out.

[Omega Alpha]

People are arguing "What Apocalypse or Kraken offer that heroes don't" and "Krakoa can survive with villains" are either being disingenuous or simply haven't read the stories. The reason why they have been invited because without a unified mutantkind, they lose. They in fact lost over and over again, both in Moira's previous lives and this one. United, it's canon that they win, so much that the robots must time travel to have the slightest chance. It's either live together or die alone.

[Alan2099]

People are arguing "What Apocalypse or Kraken offer that heroes don't" and "Krakoa can survive with villains" are either being disingenuous or simply haven't read the stories. The reason why they have been invited because without a unified mutantkind, they lose. They in fact lost over and over again, both in Moira's previous lives and this one. United, it's canon that they win, so much that the robots must time travel to have the slightest chance. It's either live together or die alone.

Because Moira, who's been lying her entire existence, says so.

Looks like we've moved past the point where heroes were unafraid to stand up for themselves and others and fight against impossible odds to make the world a better place.

Nope. The liar says we loose if we don't have genocidal maniacs on our side.

The solution is starting wars and destabilizing governments over one person?

Several of these one persons have started wars and destabilized government. To me, it just seems common sense that you don't let people who have tried to take over the world into your government and then expect to be treated fairly.

[Saithor]

People are arguing "What Apocalypse or Kraken offer that heroes don't" and "Krakoa can survive with villains" are either being disingenuous or simply haven't read the stories. The reason why they have been invited because without a unified mutantkind, they lose. They in fact lost over and over again, both in Moira's previous lives and this one. United, it's canon that they win, so much that the robots must time travel to have the slightest chance. It's either live together or die alone.

And the actual citizens of Krakoa know that how?

And also, Moira tried to make mutants succeed for nine...less? Less lifetimes? First life died normal, second time airplane crach, third life cure so...six or seven. Edge of Tomorrow, MCU Dr. Strange, and most other time travel stories are sitting in the back mocking Moira for making her hypothesis based off limited testing.

[Zelena]

Ultimately, it seems like this blithe acceptance of various genocidal nutjobs and personal nemeses and immortal predators and serial abusers is seen necessary for the plot to continue, whether or not it's got an in-story explanation or not.

Much simpler explanation than any other one. The characters are used this way because it’s more convenient for the authors and characters who made a fuss in the past because their tumultuous interactions with these villains are now rather mute and subdued… Well, I prefer my heroes with more moral and backbone for them to justify this title…

These villains are more than mutants: they are persons… They made decisions, they were responsible of their behaviour, they are not just the toy of their nature or the result of “the persecution of the humans”… Without the humans around to “pervert” them, are they such good people…?

They are patronized by Xavier who think they are “bad because they were persecuted”, but it’s not the first time…

[Outburstz]

Much simpler explanation than any other one. The characters are used this way because it’s more convenient for the authors and characters who made a fuss in the past because their tumultuous interactions with these villains are now rather mute and subdued… Well, I prefer my heroes with more moral and backbone for them to justify this title…

These villains are more than mutants: they are persons… They made decisions, they were responsible of their behaviour, they are not just the toy of their nature or the result of “the persecution of the humans”… Without the humans around to “pervert” them, are they such good people…?

They are patronized by Xavier who think they are “bad because they were persecuted”, but it’s not the first time…

Krakoa is not a super hero nation. It is not a super hero nation. IT IS NOT A SUPER HERO NATION. Stop holding them to the same standards as an X-men team in a mansion

No one believes that the villians are not villians. They know what they have done. They are giving them a clean slate for the good of mutant kind. Fighting each other is only going to make them weaker to their anti mutant enemies.

Again I need to keep hammering this home human nations for thousands of years have made deals with evil people all the time for the good of their nation. They did it because it was in their best interest to do it, but yet somehow the people on this forum can't rap their brains around the idea of mutants doing the same thing. I don't know about you but when a huge anti mutant group attacks I'd like to have people as strong as Selene, Apoc on my side.

If they turn and break the law of Krakoa then they can be dealt with, but stop with the non sense of people working with villains to say that they are now friends with villains there is a difference.

[Alan2099]

Krakoa is not a super hero nation. It is not a super hero nation. IT IS NOT A SUPER HERO NATION. Stop holding them to the same standards as an X-men team in a mansion

You seem a bit stressed. Trying to defend something that doesn't make sense will have that affect.

Krakoa isn't a superhero nation. It's just founded by, populated by, and the main books are starring superheroes. Right.

No one believes that the villians are not villians. They know what they have done.

They just don't act like it.

They are giving them a clean slate for the good of mutant kind. Fighting each other is only going to make them weaker to their anti mutant enemies.

So instead they set themselves up for multiple betrayals from within and establish a status quo where the rest of the world trusts them even less than they did before.

Again I need to keep hammering this home human nations for thousands of years have made deals with evil people all the time for the good of their nation. They did it because it was in their best interest to do it, but yet somehow the people on this forum can't rap their brains around the idea of mutants doing the same thing.

Because somebody else did something bad, they can do it to.

Name one government that has put somebody into power after that person has attempted to DESTROY the WORLD multiple times.

I don't know about you but when a huge anti mutant group attacks I'd like to have people as strong as Selene, Apoc on my side.

Apocalpyse and Selene will never be on your side. They are on their own side. As soon as your side doesn't match there's the knife goes right in the back.

And if your side DOES match theirs, you might want to seriously reconsider why you agree with terrorists.

If they turn and break the law of Krakoa then they can be dealt with, but stop with the non sense of people working with villains to say that they are now friends with villains there is a difference.

That's like saying we know they were villains Sunday through Friday, but today is Saturday. We don't expect them to do anything bad on Saturday. No need to deal with them today.

[Writerblog]

Much simpler explanation than any other one. The characters are used this way because it’s more convenient for the authors and characters who made a fuss in the past because their tumultuous interactions with these villains are now rather mute and subdued… Well, I prefer my heroes with more moral and backbone for them to justify this title…

These villains are more than mutants: they are persons… They made decisions, they were responsible of their behaviour, they are not just the toy of their nature or the result of “the persecution of the humans”… Without the humans around to “pervert” them, are they such good people…?

They are patronized by Xavier who think they are “bad because they were persecuted”, but it’s not the first time…

This is the pure juice of identitarism.

[Outburstz]

You seem a bit stressed. Trying to defend something that doesn't make sense will have that affect.

Krakoa isn't a superhero nation. It's just founded by, populated by, and the main books are starring superheroes. Right.

It was founded by Magneto , Xavier, and Moria. Who lost faith in humanity cause they lose. The population of Krakoa is mostly non X-men which I know you don't care about because blah fodder right. You are watching the stories of super heroes on Krakoa and how they adjust to make sure Krakoa work. That doesn't make Krakoa a super hero nation just because you are reading their point of view.

They just don't act like it.


So instead they set themselves up for multiple betrayals from within and establish a status quo where the rest of the world trusts them even less than they did before.

When and if the villians betray them they will deal with them, but again you can't offer a clean slate but then all of a sudden have them walking around with a scarlet letter type thing 24/7. It's not like they are not being watched at all. I mean Emma proved that in Hellions.

Because somebody else did something bad, they can do it to.

Yes because they are a nation just like those other nations but they are working for mutants safety. Krakoa

Name one government that has put somebody into power after that person has attempted to DESTROY the WORLD multiple times.

So the only evil governments are the ones that need to try and destroy the world? All the forced mutant abortions by China's government mean nothing, Genocide of multiple human populations mean nothing, Kidnapping and enslavement of populations mean nothing, organ farming , Forced removal of populations as well as their resources, not caring about homelessness.

Nope just as long as they didn't try to destory the world these are A OK.

Apocalpyse and Selene will never be on your side. They are on their own side. As soon as your side doesn't match there's the knife goes right in the back.

When they do they will be dealt with, but Krakoa is taking that chance and is giving them and others like them that chance to turn their life around. If they ruin their chance so be it.

And if your side DOES match theirs, you might want to seriously reconsider why you agree with terrorists.

Because it benefits mutants. Just like human nations using terrorist's to destabilize other regions while feigning ignorance. Only mutants are not even doing that just allowing them to live on Krakoa.

That's like saying we know they were villains Sunday through Friday, but today is Saturday. We don't expect them to do anything bad on Saturday. No need to deal with them today.

Not until they betray them or break the laws no.

[gonnagiveittoya]

Firestar would be more fun addition to the X-Men because her not being Krakoan opens up a lot of interesting possibilities to discuss mutants who don't love Krakoa.

[Outburstz]

Firestar would be more fun addition to the X-Men because her not being Krakoan opens up a lot of interesting possibilities to discuss mutants who don't love Krakoa.

I'm not understanding why you guys want this so bad in an X-men book. Shouldn't that be in non X book because why would a mutant who doesn't believe in Krakoa be representing a team elected by Krakoa citizens that just doesn't make sense.


Firestar- "yeah I don't agree nor like Krakoa"

Krakoa citizens - "We choose you to represent us"

Firestar - O_O