Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[JThree]

Well.... Maybe in the end of Dark Web, they will be remarried!

Do ya think? Now, that would be a nice pro-family ending I can rally behind. Why can't Marvel and DC do more things like that? Have Scott realize this is all his fault for not staying with her and the baby, and he tries to make amends. Never liked Jean Grey anyway.

--jthree

[Rift]

That's a bit of an oversimplification.

Yeah, they forgot to mention the Avengers were jealous bitches. True haters.

[Alan2099]

The mutants did use their powers to fix the world's problems in AvX. The Avengers attacked them for it.

Let's not start with that garbage again.

[davetvs]

That's literally what happened in-story????????

[Frobisher]

That's literally what happened in-story????????

Yeah, the Avengers are sitting around getting antsy and throwing out shit like "what if the Phoenix Five go too far and lose control?". Like it'd be somehow ok for the X-Men to blow up Stark Tower pre-emptively just in case Tony theoretically uses his incredible transistor technology to enslave humanity at some point in the future.

[Alan2099]

Yeah, the Avengers are sitting around getting antsy and throwing out shit like "what if the Phoenix Five go too far and lose control?". Like it'd be somehow ok for the X-Men to blow up Stark Tower pre-emptively just in case Tony theoretically uses his incredible transistor technology to enslave humanity at some point in the future.

I swear, I do not get X-fans sometimes. The Phoenix Five were possessed and had declared themselves to be the new rulers of the world and everyone had to do what they say, and somehow trying to stop them is a bad thing.

It always boils down to mutants can do no wrong.

Phoenix is endangering the planet, but that's okay because the X-men want more mutants. The Avengers are obviously the bad guys for trying to stop them.
Inhumans are endangering the planet because they want more Inhumans. The X-men are the good guys for trying to stop them.

Apocalypse and Sinister show up, and suddenly they're good guys. Because they're mutants.
Mr. Fantastic? Captain America? Not mutants, so they're the bad guys.

[cranger]

I swear, I do not get X-fans sometimes. The Phoenix Five were possessed and had declared themselves to be the new rulers of the world and everyone had to do what they say, and somehow trying to stop them is a bad thing.

It always boils down to mutants can do no wrong.

Phoenix is endangering the planet, but that's okay because the X-men want more mutants. The Avengers are obviously the bad guys for trying to stop them.
Inhumans are endangering the planet because they want more Inhumans. The X-men are the good guys for trying to stop them.

Apocalypse and Sinister show up, and suddenly they're good guys. Because they're mutants.
Mr. Fantastic? Captain America? Not mutants, so they're the bad guys.

You cannot seriously write those takes on AvX and IvX and not expect everyone here to roll their eyes. Aside from being bad stories and having little reason to discuss the 'nuances' both were written with the agenda of propping up the non-X side of the title.

[Alan2099]

You cannot seriously write those takes on AvX and IvX and not expect everyone here to roll their eyes.

At this point, I expect everyone to roll their eyes anytime someone suggests mutants may be wrong and other superheroes might not be 100% evil.

[Kingdom X]

I swear, I do not get X-fans sometimes. The Phoenix Five were possessed and had declared themselves to be the new rulers of the world and everyone had to do what they say, and somehow trying to stop them is a bad thing.

It always boils down to mutants can do no wrong.

Phoenix is endangering the planet, but that's okay because the X-men want more mutants. The Avengers are obviously the bad guys for trying to stop them.
Inhumans are endangering the planet because they want more Inhumans. The X-men are the good guys for trying to stop them.

Apocalypse and Sinister show up, and suddenly they're good guys. Because they're mutants.
Mr. Fantastic? Captain America? Not mutants, so they're the bad guys.

I was seeing where you coming from till the last paragraph. I’m kind of over the generalization of X-fans. Do you see how many people on here complain about Sinister on a regular basis? For some reason folks can’t tell the difference between fans liking the Krakoa era as a whole and wholeheartedly supporting every action in-story. It’s like if fans don’t include a complaint about how terrible Apoc and Sinister anre every time they post, then they actively support those characters. Maybe (just maybe) folks have better things to do with their time then complain about aspects of a 3-year old status quo that they don’t like.

It’s comics…things will inevitably revert back to a more traditional status quo so folks finding entertainment in something different and risky isn’t the end of the world some of y’all think it is.

[Ambaryerno]

I swear, I do not get X-fans sometimes. The Phoenix Five were possessed and had declared themselves to be the new rulers of the world and everyone had to do what they say, and somehow trying to stop them is a bad thing.

It always boils down to mutants can do no wrong.

Phoenix is endangering the planet, but that's okay because the X-men want more mutants. The Avengers are obviously the bad guys for trying to stop them.
Inhumans are endangering the planet because they want more Inhumans. The X-men are the good guys for trying to stop them.

Apocalypse and Sinister show up, and suddenly they're good guys. Because they're mutants.
Mr. Fantastic? Captain America? Not mutants, so they're the bad guys.

You DO recall what happened to create the Five in the first place, right?

TONY FRIGGEN' STARK decided to shoot the Phoenix with a gun. After the Avengers listened to Logan's "expert knowledge" which ignored DECADES of continuity that would have established he was full of shit. The fact that Rachel Grey simply EXISTS makes the entire thing one gigantic plot black hole that sucked up any possible quality storytelling that could have come from this, and crushed it into a singularity of OOC garbage.

[Devaishwarya]

Exactatiously.
Rachel's presence alone invalidated that entire dumpster fire from the very start, even before Tony went and added horse manure as fuel.

And yes...

Just because I LOVE and enjoy this Era doesn't mean I don't see or acknowledge the cracks and faults and nonsense...I just don't believe those cracks, faults and nonsense invalidate EVERY thing else.

[Omega Alpha]

You DO recall what happened to create the Five in the first place, right?

TONY FRIGGEN' STARK decided to shoot the Phoenix with a gun. After the Avengers listened to Logan's "expert knowledge" which ignored DECADES of continuity that would have established he was full of shit. The fact that Rachel Grey simply EXISTS makes the entire thing one gigantic plot black hole that sucked up any possible quality storytelling that could have come from this, and crushed it into a singularity of OOC garbage.

It's pretty simple: Marvel editors and X-men haters think the X-men were wrong. Anyone else sees the garbage story for what it is.

[Saithor]

It's pretty simple: Marvel editors and X-men haters think the X-men were wrong. Anyone else sees the garbage story for what it is.

Initially? Yes. After decades of X-fans bashing on the Avengers for it? No.

[sunofdarkchild]

The problem with AvX isn't that the Avengers were wrong. It's that they were stupid. Everything they did before they finally changed course at the end was based on the same logic Batman used to justify trying to kill Superman in BvS. I get thinking the Phoenix 5 would become a threat and wanting to strike first. What I can't accept is is that instead of trying to come up with a plan to neutralize them and remove the threat, they instead deliberately provoke these godlike beings into retaliating. It would have been better storytelling for them to reuse the 'Tony Stark super-weapon that was supposed to kill the Phoenix didn't work and made things worse' plot-point than to have them do what they did to set up the conflict with the P5, because at least then they would have been trying to prevent a war with the P5 instead of deliberately starting one.

[Grunty]

(...)It’s comics…things will inevitably revert back to a more traditional status quo so folks finding entertainment in something different and risky isn’t the end of the world some of y’all think it is.

I somewhat feel the "it's comics" argument isn't exactly well worded since the vast majority of comics across the medium either go for a soft continuity (or none at all) and don't have any true beginning and end in mind, or they go for a strict continuity where things matter and impact the universe lastingly, but also with a clear beginning and end in mind (even if things might be left open for later continuations).

Not to forget most, which aren't about real world events or history, don't try to maintain a strict adherence to or reflection of the real world or current events (rather going for metaphorical references).

Marvel comics are actualy quite unique in trying to maintain a singular enforced continuity for over 50 years of publishing history, across multiple seperated constantly launched and cancled titles, involving world changing events, technologies and abnormalities (super powers, magic, etc.), which never the less are not allowed to actualy alter the human side of the universe like they should, because of a percieved need to keep everything as a reflection of the current real world.

Even DC comics felt the need to occasionaly reboot it's entire universe or more precisely switch to a new one (though which comes with it's own clutter of continuity and titles).

Marvel comics is basicly the Winchester House of comics, because it too follows the idea of a perpetual constant construction with no end goal in mind. A messy curosity which is fun to look at and get a guiding tour through, but which has become entirely unsuited to fullfill it's original function as house to be lived in.

So it doesn't really fit to use it as example for how things are "normal" in the comic medium overall.

Infact Marvel comics are in dire need to be fundamentaly reconsidered and structure, since it clearly just doesn't work anymore either with large parts of the established fanbase who is bleeding out nor the potential new readers who are often repulsed by it's horrible structure and publishing system.

At this point, they might need to bite the bullet and restart anew with a universe that is allowed to change and evolve under the influence of all the "super" things. After all nothing says the fictional world can't remain a reflection of the real one even if casual mars flight, artifical stopped climate change and people with super powers are common elements.
It's after all how most of alternate and near future world fiction works.

It's simply not up to date anymore, it's not the standard and it's slowly but steadily failing, to the point where it feels like it's only one bad investors meeting away from being axed entirely for being unprofitable.