Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[davetvs]

I confess, I have you on ignore. I have to manually decide whether or not to read your comments, so there's a lot I've missed. Apologies!

[ARkadelphia]

While some few (mainly villains) have taken the superior part of Homo Superior (as per Homo Erectus and Homo Sapien) to literal extremes its been very clear throughout its entire publication history that the X-Men and close affiliates and those mutants who just want to live a normal life in peace do not think or feel that way...in fact, being constantly hated, hounded, hunted, feared and killed, made them feel anything but superior.

And the notion that ALL these mutants are now going about lording their "superiority" over humans ie blaming the entire group for the actions of a very misguided few...is unequivocally wrong, and not what the X-Men as a franchise and the stories being told has ever been about, from inception to now.

Sad to say, somewhere along the line some readers lost the plot and either can't find their way back or are quite happy being lost.

Alternatively, the plot changed

[Devaishwarya]

Alternatively, the plot changed

But was still very easy to follow. At least for those with open eyes and a good sense of direction.

[ARkadelphia]

Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
While some few (mainly villains) have taken the superior part of Homo Superior (as per Homo Erectus and Homo Sapien) to literal extremes its been very clear throughout its entire publication history that the X-Men and close affiliates and those mutants who just want to live a normal life in peace do not think or feel that way...in fact, being constantly hated, hounded, hunted, feared and killed, made them feel anything but superior.

And the notion that ALL these mutants are now going about lording their "superiority" over humans ie blaming the entire group for the actions of a very misguided few...is unequivocally wrong, and not what the X-Men as a franchise and the stories being told has ever been about, from inception to now.

Sad to say, somewhere along the line some readers lost the plot and either can't find their way back or are quite happy being lost.

While some few (mainly politicians) have taken their fear of Homo Superior (as per Homo Erectus and Homo Sapien) to literal extremes its been very clear throughout its entire publication history that Homo sapiens who just want to live a normal life in peace do not think or feel that way...in fact, being constantly hated, threatened, and killed, made them feel fearful of Homo superior.

And the notion that ALL these Homo sapiens are now going about lording their "superiority" are now blaming the entire group of Homo superior for the actions of a very misguided few...is unequivocally wrong, and not what the X-Men as a franchise and the stories being told has ever been about, from inception to now.

[Havok83]

I confess, I have you on ignore. I have to manually decide whether or not to read your comments, so there's a lot I've missed. Apologies!

[cranger]

Oh I have just assumed most people have me on ignore and am surprised when I get a response.

[Nicoclaws]

Mutants only lose because it is what the writers/editors wanted. They could have stopped losing overnight in any manner of ways if Marvel wanted. Krakoa could also exist without Chuck having been radicalized as a young man and just lying about some dream all this time. In fact, we have had 'Krakoas' before and they only lasted until Marvel decided they hated 'minorities' again I guess.

Xavier's dreams of coexistence still is there. He says it repeatedly. His priority shift BECAUSE if he doesn't focus on protecting mutantkind they always lose (according to Moira). Even Moira complained that despite her best efforts Xavier still had his own agenda. His goal of peaceful coexistence is still repeated SEVERAL times during the last 3 ou 4 years.

[Devaishwarya]

While some few (mainly politicians) have taken their fear of Homo Superior (as per Homo Erectus and Homo Sapien) to literal extremes its been very clear throughout its entire publication history that Homo sapiens who just want to live a normal life in peace do not think or feel that way...in fact, being constantly hated, threatened, and killed, made them feel fearful of Homo superior.

And the notion that ALL these Homo sapiens are now going about lording their "superiority" are now blaming the entire group of Homo superior for the actions of a very misguided few...is unequivocally wrong, and not what the X-Men as a franchise and the stories being told has ever been about, from inception to now.

Exactatiously.

Though, apart from the few megalomaniac villains (often stopped by the mutant heroes) most mutants have never actively and continuously, over and over again sought out the complete eradication of homo sapiens. In fact, regardless of how some homo sapiens feel towards mutants...they continue to protect them from all forms of harm, as recently seen in Judgement Day. And point of note...no mutant on Krakoa or Arakko is holding homo sapien children incarcerated against their will as we've seen in some countries like Russia, currently.

[cranger]

Xavier's dreams of coexistence still is there. He says it repeatedly. His priority shift BECAUSE if he doesn't focus on protecting mutantkind they always lose (according to Moira). Even Moira complained that despite her best efforts Xavier still had his own agenda. His goal of peaceful coexistence is still repeated SEVERAL times during the last 3 ou 4 years.

We just have different ideas of what his dream was. General consensus is the dream is dead. I am not saying he is Magneto or Apocalypse, or even Mystique. He is at least the disenfranchised Cyclops, leader of Utopia, who also during that time was understood to have abandoned the dream.

[Saithor]

Just on the Apocalypse note: Having him as an ambassador would have made Krakoa an international pariah. I know this is comics where they thought things like Iran giving the Joker diplomatic immunity, but Apocalypse publicly tried to kill 90% of the world at the UN headquarters. By all rights he told the most hated list. And that before he gets outed as a child groomer.

[Alan2099]

Just on the Apocalypse note: Having him as an ambassador would have made Krakoa an international pariah. I know this is comics where they thought things like Iran giving the Joker diplomatic immunity, but Apocalypse publicly tried to kill 90% of the world at the UN headquarters. By all rights he told the most hated list. And that before he gets outed as a child groomer.

They had Magneto as an ambassador and he's the guy they practically invented the term "evil mutant" for. Actually, he might be the guy that invented the term in the first place, when he decided to call his team that and declared he was trying to take over the world.

[Saithor]

Magneto didn't try to nuke 90% of all life on earth in the name of eugenics. And has been transitioning as a character much more and for much longer than Apocalypse.

Actually that's another question, why was everyone besides Gambit on the island cool with Mr. Blue Man Genocide considering he tried to kill them all too in his attempt to forge the master race?

[Nicoclaws]

We just have different ideas of what his dream was. General consensus is the dream is dead. I am not saying he is Magneto or Apocalypse, or even Mystique. He is at least the disenfranchised Cyclops, leader of Utopia, who also during that time was understood to have abandoned the dream.

Your idea is not general consensus. I can say "General consensus is the dream is not dead but just dreaming doesn't work and they get killed".
The dream is not dead. Xavier is still a dreamer, and his goal of peaceful coexistence is still there. Moira tried to break him and didn't succeed.
Now if for you "coexistence" means accepting abuse, that's your take. I'm glad that we moved on from that, to be honest.

Now I will agree with the argument that Krakoa =/= the X-men. That's definitely true. But Krakoa is just not Xavier so it just means that Xavier was willing to lie about one of his goals, in order to protect mutantkind and reach the dream of coexistence. Which honestly should not be out of character for Xavier.
Also the argument that Krakoa =/= the X-men HAS been brought up on page AND led to the actual X-men book.
I agree that Xavier's character has been more shady in Krakoa, chosing to protect mutantkind OVER protecting the rest of the world. That's true. But every inside view we've had from him, from X-men to Immortal to Unlimited, he still cares, and he still want to reach his ultimate goal, and every choice he makes that further this breaks his heart a bit. But again that's not too out of character for him.

Also I won't argue that Hickman had to force the voice of several characters to make us accept the new status quo and that did not work much. Storm in the first X-men issues was really cringey.
And I'll admit I wish we saw more than Wolverine, Gambit, Kate and Jubilee have a problem with accepting villains (well 2 out of 4 could be labelled as criminals, though...).
I remember during Utopia when Storm asked "Who on this table has never been labeled a villain ?" and only her and Hope rose their hand.

[marhawkman]

Magneto didn't try to nuke 90% of all life on earth in the name of eugenics. And has been transitioning as a character much more and for much longer than Apocalypse.

Actually that's another question, why was everyone besides Gambit on the island cool with Mr. Blue Man Genocide considering he tried to kill them all too in his attempt to forge the master race?

Funny thing with that.... Apocalypse really doesn't care if you're a Mutant or not as long as you're strong. So that time when he was threatening to kill 90% of the world population? didn't really bother Apocalypse if most of the Mutants in the world got wiped out. So... it wasn't eugenics. It was actually just a crazy plan to "cull the herd" and incite conflict to sift out the weak, but in a very Darwinian way and not eugenics.

[cranger]

Now if for you "coexistence" means accepting abuse, that's your take. I'm glad that we moved on from that, to be honest.

Just so you know am not cutting this quote down to take this part out of context. I appreciate the rest of your thoughts (and see we have some common ground) but I do want to make it clear I do not expect anyone to accept abuse especially in the way that gets tossed around here. I find it odd that the discussion always boils down to that justification for accepting the current status quo of Krakoa. As if this has always been some big story leading to this when there are any number of ways the dream could have always been much closer to reality.

The unfortunate fact is that the writers will not stop doing the stories that are used to argue for why Krakoa is needed, and that is partly because it is the nature of comics. Someone has to be a victim for the hero to save and villains need some motivation to make them different so eventually it turns to someone who hates or wants to exploit mutants. Writers also always want to tell a bigger story than the last person so the travesties get worse. Those stories are still happening. Krakoa has not stopped that.