Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[cranger]

Magneto didn't try to nuke 90% of all life on earth in the name of eugenics. And has been transitioning as a character much more and for much longer than Apocalypse.

Actually that's another question, why was everyone besides Gambit on the island cool with Mr. Blue Man Genocide considering he tried to kill them all too in his attempt to forge the master race?

I think the problem was that Hickman bypassed the 'redemption' story on all of the villains and it can be hard to have the little scenes of characters not trusting them without being able to give the reader a reason to as well. The writer is just pointing out the big hole in the story at that point or has to spend all of their story doing the actual redeeming. So basically no one wanted to put the effort in.

[marhawkman]

I think the problem was that Hickman bypassed the 'redemption' story on all of the villains and it can be hard to have the little scenes of characters not trusting them without being able to give the reader a reason to as well. The writer is just pointing out the big hole in the story at that point or has to spend all of their story doing the actual redeeming. So basically no one wanted to put the effort in.

Yeah, skipped anything like a redemption arc... and went straight to new ethically "questionable" actions....

[Omega Alpha]

I think the problem was that Hickman bypassed the 'redemption' story on all of the villains and it can be hard to have the little scenes of characters not trusting them without being able to give the reader a reason to as well. The writer is just pointing out the big hole in the story at that point or has to spend all of their story doing the actual redeeming. So basically no one wanted to put the effort in.

He didn't skip redemption arcs because it wasn't the point. Krakoa being founded by some good and some terrible people is the point. And that doesn't make it better or worse than any other country, since mutants aren't inherently better or worse than humans morally speaking, which is also the point

[cranger]

He didn't skip redemption arcs because it wasn't the point. Krakoa being founded by some good and some terrible people is the point. And that doesn't make it better or worse than any other country, since mutants aren't inherently better or worse than humans morally speaking, which is also the point

I know it was not his point. That is my point. No other writer wanted to bother making it a point either.

[jwatson]

These last few events. I mean there are gems in there thank the writers who are doing their job. But you know it's bad when you thinking Fallen Angel was high caliber compared to the creativity we getting now in direction.

[Saithor]

He didn't skip redemption arcs because it wasn't the point. Krakoa being founded by some good and some terrible people is the point. And that doesn't make it better or worse than any other country, since mutants aren't inherently better or worse than humans morally speaking, which is also the point

So then why was everyone on the island hunky dory with the idea of them being the equivalent of the survivors of Hiroshima paling around with the crew of the Enola Gay? It makes no sense from a character perspective, nor does Krakoa having any kind of positive diplomatic relation after putting who would have been the world’s biggest pariah, greater than Hitler, in its governing body.

[Omega Alpha]

So then why was everyone on the island hunky dory with the idea of them being the equivalent of the survivors of Hiroshima paling around with the crew of the Enola Gay? It makes no sense from a character perspective, nor does Krakoa having any kind of positive diplomatic relation after putting who would have been the world’s biggest pariah, greater than Hitler, in its governing body.

But not everyone was hunky dory with Apocalypse being on the island, not by a long shot. He was a tolerated presence, not a welcome one by most people

[Saithor]

But not everyone was hunky dory with Apocalypse being on the island, not by a long shot. He was a tolerated presence, not a welcome one by most people

Really? Because the only one I ever saw mildly upset with him was Gambit. And even that is an under-reaction to putting a genocidal eugienicist in with them.

And again, does not explain why all of Krakoa is not persona non grata with the entire world. Apocalypse tried to kill 90% of the world population. Publicly. At the UN headquarters. He even gave a probably televised speech about it. Large chunks of a world community has a way of turning on single nations for way, way less than what he attempted (Iran, North Korea, Taiwan, Yugoslavia, Russia), yet Krakoa somehow gets treated rather normally for encountering the greatest attempted mass murderer in human history.

[Devaishwarya]

This is why I always feel as tough I'm reading very different X-books to what's being discussed.

There were no redemption stories to bypass...Hickman (Xavier and Erik) pointedly said that all who wished to live on the Island and become Krakoan citizens had carte-blanche immunity from their past crimes. No questions asked (which was the main folly because we know those villains who accepted had their own personal agendas but...necessary conflict)

We also know why Xavier and Erik made such a decision...as per Moira's urging...for this era to work and succeed....everybody (hero and villain) had to be on board. It's not as though the heroes on the QC didn't know who they were sitting next to. Xaddy Blue was called-out in Excalibur, Destiny in X-Men, Shaw in Marauders, Sinister in Hellions...they knew who the leopards were...some openly questioned why, while others went about their daily business accepting that Xavier and Erik knows best but mindful.

It's all there in the stories.

[Saithor]

This is why I always feel as tough I'm reading very different X-books to what's being discussed.

There were no redemption stories to bypass...Hickman (Xavier and Erik) pointedly said that all who wished to live on the Island and become Krakoan citizens had carte-blanche immunity from their past crimes. No questions asked (which was the main folly because we know those villains who accepted had their own personal agendas but...necessary conflict)

We also know why Xavier and Erik made such a decision...as per Moira's urging...for this era to work and succeed....everybody (hero and villain) had to be on board. It's not as though the heroes on the QC didn't know who they were sitting next to. Xaddy Blue was called-out in Excalibur, Destiny in X-Men, Shaw in Marauders, Sinister in Hellions...they knew who the leopards were...some openly questioned why, while others went about their daily business accepting that Xavier and Erik knows best but mindful.

It's all there in the stories.

I'm saying it was sufficient for me. Especially for some of these villains. You can disagree, it's just my opinion, but people being okay with the government having mystique? Sinister? Shaw? Apocalypse? I expected riots in the streets of Krakoa or major mutants just refusing to be near those people not... "Maybe this is a bad idea. Eh, don't have anything else better to do for a year." There was never that sense of uneasiness or hostility for me in tone of the books. It's why I had the hive mind theory for so long. Essentially everyone but the 1-2 characters allowed per book to be skeptical were fine with it. It felt like the controversy of say, Sanders running again instead of letting someone who tried to kill more people than any actual person in human history on your governing body.

And I've had many, many people argue that Apocalypse has been redeemed and is a full on hero many times over the year, typically along with some statement about Flatscans deserving genocide.

[Zelena]

He didn't skip redemption arcs because it wasn't the point. Krakoa being founded by some good and some terrible people is the point. And that doesn't make it better or worse than any other country, since mutants aren't inherently better or worse than humans morally speaking, which is also the point

Not the point from the writer’s perspective probably but still the elephant in the room. The Krakoans are maybe mutants but still humans from an emotional point of view. The only outburst I saw was the Morlocks facing Greycrow…

Let’s say the mutants are not humans enough to behave emotionally… Then it’s a flaw. Because how boring it is then… And how could the readers relate to them…
Maybe I was so used that the X-men stories were a soap…

[cranger]

Different strokes for different folks. It worked for some people and for others it was a weakness in the storytelling.

[Devaishwarya]

So...you expected the story to go one way when clearly the writers had other plans and intentions and priorities.
Fair, I suppose, but expecting "riots" in the streets of their new haven and open dissent is a bit much especially for those who came to Krakoa on their own volition. That's the thing...everyone who is living on the Island are there by choice, knowing fully who were on the QC (which wasn't a secret). And we know there are many who refused to rsvp the telepathic invitation, for different personal reasons.

His past sins weren't redeemed and he by no means became a "full on hero". In fact due to the outcome of Excalibur it's explicit that he clearly had his own shady agenda from the very start...to bring back his family and free Arakko. At the end of XoS he did do the heroic thing but again...that was to serve his purpose. As a long-standing character Xaddy Blue was simply given more depth and layers regarding his motivations other than the one-note "Survival of the Fittest-the weak must perish!" That's all.

[Saithor]

So...you expected the story to go one way when clearly the writers had other plans and intentions and priorities.
Fair, I suppose, but expecting "riots" in the streets of their new haven and open dissent is a bit much especially for those who came to Krakoa on their own volition. That's the thing...everyone who is living on the Island are there by choice, knowing fully who were on the QC (which wasn't a secret). And we know there are many who refused to rsvp the telepathic invitation, for different personal reasons.

His past sins weren't redeemed and he by no means became a "full on hero". In fact due to the outcome of Excalibur it's explicit that he clearly had his own shady agenda from the very start...to bring back his family and free Arakko. At the end of XoS he did do the heroic thing but again...that was to serve his purpose. As a long-standing character Xaddy Blue was simply given more depth and layers regarding his motivations other than the one-note "Survival of the Fittest-the weak must perish!" That's all.

Yes? It's not uncommon. It's just my opinion, much like I imagine how many here had opinions on how IvsX should have gone that differ from how the writers intended that to go. And you're fair, riots in the street is a bit much. I would have expected Krakoa to be dealing with the fact no one wanted to come to Krakoa and chill next to the guy on top of the world government's "We use the nukes if he tries anything again" list.

[Kingdom X]

Yes? It's not uncommon. It's just my opinion, much like I imagine how many here had opinions on how IvsX should have gone that differ from how the writers intended that to go. And you're fair, riots in the street is a bit much. I would have expected Krakoa to be dealing with the fact no one wanted to come to Krakoa and chill next to the guy on top of the world government's "We use the nukes if he tries anything again" list.

Honestly... I feel like a lot of mutants would have been so desperate by the time that HoX rolled around that they'd put up with some questionable leadership and moral choices. Get murdered in the streets and retreat to the "safe-haven" that is the mansion that get's blown up every month vs. go to a more secure island, where your government won't outlaw your existence and create mutant vaccines, AND where you have access to resurrections in case you do meet a grisly fate. I think Krakoa offered a lot of good, so a lot of tired mutants were willing to ignore the bad.

Now I absolutely think it was a misstep to not show more characters wrestle with the idea of Krakoa and perhaps deal with some of that moral conflict. It was a creative choice that worked for House of X, because they wanted everything to be mysterious and eerie, but after the fact a really think they should have done a "missing 8 months" one-shot at least.