Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[jwatson]

So they finally got to the stage of inhumans. I mean lets be real. They planted themselves in the middle of NYC, released a poisonous cloud that killed countless humans and mutants and the first few issues were living it up in the casino and no one said boo. But we are suppose to have a problem with krakoa being an independent island offering life saving drugs and everyone has a problem. Make that make sense, i'm waiting.

[Sisterhood Of Mutants]

Damn the more i read about White the more i feel like i'm right to feel wary of a curved mustache and a captain hook glare. Plus the man says A LOT without really saying anything at all.

Cackling. The way you just perfectly described the people who’ve made me feel the most uncomfortable in both comics and horror/scifi spaces…

[Rift]

The Krakoan era proves Hellfire Club won. They co-opted and corrupted the X-Men.

The HC started off as capitalist / industrialist mutants willing to stoke human hate and fear of mutants in order to make money by selling Sentinels to world governments.

Rather than picking up on that thread we get X-Men seated at the table with HC, going to their big parties, and strategizing business deals for political purposes.

But those business deals and politics are for the betterment of the average mutant. What their doing protects the people in their care. A lot of their business deals come from X-Corp doing "ethical business" (aside from whatever the hell Monet was trying to do in that book), or creating medicine that helps humans. In fact, we've seen Emma and Hellfire Trading sell or sneak in medicine into countries that don't recognize Krakoa's trading deal, so people can still get medicine. One issue of Marauders had her give medicine to a man who tried to rob their shipment, because his grandma was sick and needed meds ASAP.

The Gala itself was made to help connect with humanity again. And to flex on them a lil bit, but mostly to foster good faith. Hence why humans were invited.

[Kingdom X]

So they finally got to the stage of inhumans. I mean lets be real. They planted themselves in the middle of NYC, released a poisonous cloud that killed countless humans and mutants and the first few issues were living it up in the casino and no one said boo. But we are suppose to have a problem with krakoa being an independent island offering life saving drugs and everyone has a problem. Make that make sense, i'm waiting.

When Duggan said, “The mutants have been winning, how long did you think humans would take it.” In the X-Men Monday this morning I was like… take what exactly? Even the machines had a better excuse to have beef than this. Mutants been chilling, providing resources, AND a steady supply of superhero teams. I desperately want to get to a place where humanity is portrayed with nuance in X-comics.

[BobbysWorld]

When Duggan said, “The mutants have been winning, how long did you think humans would take it.” In the X-Men Monday this morning I was like… take what exactly? Even the machines had a better excuse to have beef than this. Mutants been chilling, providing resources, AND a steady supply of superhero teams. I desperately want to get to a place where humanity is portrayed with nuance in X-comics.

Like I'm still waiting for all the 'the mutant villains have won' people to tell me where outside of Sins of Sinister - which is an AU deliberately crafted to show what its like when that specific scenario happens, but also should make it painfully obvious that the ordinary timeline ISN'T anything like that - like, where are mutants EXPLOITING humans and oppressing them.

People keep trying to act like reality has inverted and mutants are doing unto others what human oppressors did to them at various points in history and its just not....true? LMAO.

Its like I've said a million times....you can't play flip the script with uneven social dynamics. Flipping Hickman's Cyclops line about mutants not taking it any longer doesn't work if mutants in the main timeline have never functionally pushed humans to the edge of extinction like has happened with Utopia, etc.

It just makes you look goofy.

[jwatson]

When Duggan said, “The mutants have been winning, how long did you think humans would take it.” In the X-Men Monday this morning I was like… take what exactly? Even the machines had a better excuse to have beef than this. Mutants been chilling, providing resources, AND a steady supply of superhero teams. I desperately want to get to a place where humanity is portrayed with nuance in X-comics.

What really stunned me was the resurrection thing. The hate some felt raised as though a badge was being taken away with each mutant rebirth. It was the cancerverse, that was answered, it was clones, though lorna was used a vehicle to show it wasnt. Then it was there are no stakes, like wtf it's a comic. And so on and so forth until they HAD to judge them, make them deviants, i don't know maybe creators are completely plugged out but you can't ignore the things you read and then stories showing up basically giving the wank job of a lifetime to conform to those things when the story itself doesn't make much sense and is literally out of left field.

[Kingdom X]

What really stunned me was the resurrection thing. The hate some felt raised as though a badge was being taken away with each mutant rebirth. It was the cancerverse, that was answered, it was clones, though lorna was used a vehicle to show it wasnt. Then it was there are no stakes, like wtf it's a comic. And so on and so forth until they HAD to judge them, make them deviants, i don't know maybe creators are completely plugged out but you can't ignore the things you read and then stories showing up basically giving the wank job of a lifetime to conform to those things when the story itself doesn't make much sense and is literally out of left field.

The Deviant thing was soooo random, because it ultimately didn’t lead to any long lasting changes and was more of a technicality. I’m convinced that if Eternals had done better at the box office we would have seen it explored more, but Marvel pretty much stopped their Eternals push after Judgement Day.

[marhawkman]

What really stunned me was the resurrection thing. The hate some felt raised as though a badge was being taken away with each mutant rebirth. It was the cancerverse, that was answered, it was clones, though lorna was used a vehicle to show it wasnt. Then it was there are no stakes, like wtf it's a comic. And so on and so forth until they HAD to judge them, make them deviants, i don't know maybe creators are completely plugged out but you can't ignore the things you read and then stories showing up basically giving the wank job of a lifetime to conform to those things when the story itself doesn't make much sense and is literally out of left field.

And then there's how only the ones the Quiet council likes get it....

[HomoSuperior]

Like I'm still waiting for all the 'the mutant villains have won' people to tell me where outside of Sins of Sinister - which is an AU deliberately crafted to show what its like when that specific scenario happens, but also should make it painfully obvious that the ordinary timeline ISN'T anything like that - like, where are mutants EXPLOITING humans and oppressing them.

People keep trying to act like reality has inverted and mutants are doing unto others what human oppressors did to them at various points in history and its just not....true? LMAO.

Its like I've said a million times....you can't play flip the script with uneven social dynamics. Flipping Hickman's Cyclops line about mutants not taking it any longer doesn't work if mutants in the main timeline have never functionally pushed humans to the edge of extinction like has happened with Utopia, etc.

It just makes you look goofy.

From a human’s perspective they are collateral to mutant existence. Imagine learning you have been living in a reality simulation that is intended to accelerate mutant transcendence to dominion. Watching the world become Sinisterized around you. Experiencing Judgement Day. Living through House of M. Or turning into Age of Apocalypse. Not as direct and immediate threat as forced labor camps with giant robot guards, but it’s an existential crisis nonetheless.

Once upon a time, Xavier founded his team to counter his fear of the threat of an out of control mutant with the power to warp reality.

At least in prior stories/eras, like Kulan Gath transforming New York, the X-Men worked to restore reality. This time Storm’s actions are not indifferent saying “This reality has life, too, and it’s more worthy. I’ll allow and protect it.”

Perhaps a new character-driven X-book focusing on an underdog team of humans without powers doing extraordinary sci-fi things to survive the fallout could be a fun read. Oh wait, that’s Orchis.

[Agent Grayson]

Seriously. EVERYTHING he did after HoX/PoX was mediocre as hell. His X-Men, the Giant Size issues, Inferno etc. Never read his New Mutants so can't judge that, but he never reached his initial high ever again.

That's because HoX/PoX was an incredible concept that was too huge and unwieldy to fit into established continuity, so it fell flat on its face when it moved past the introductory minis without trying to reconcile its sweeping retcons and creative changes with existing characters. It would make for an awesome alternate universe story where those kinds of problems wouldn't exist.

The Krakoan era proves Hellfire Club won. They co-opted and corrupted the X-Men.

The HC started off as capitalist / industrialist mutants willing to stoke human hate and fear of mutants in order to make money by selling Sentinels to world governments.

Rather than picking up on that thread we get X-Men seated at the table with HC, going to their big parties, and strategizing business deals for political purposes.

I don't think that's entirely true. The Hellfire Club was purely self-serving and, even if poor writing and structuring has meant that we haven't seen these issues explored particularly well, we've seen enough of the 'good guys' on Krakoa to know that their intent isn't aligned with the Hellfire Club's completely selfish pursuits.

Like I'm still waiting for all the 'the mutant villains have won' people to tell me where outside of Sins of Sinister - which is an AU deliberately crafted to show what its like when that specific scenario happens, but also should make it painfully obvious that the ordinary timeline ISN'T anything like that - like, where are mutants EXPLOITING humans and oppressing them.

I don't think mutants are oppressing humans as it stands in current books, but considering the entire basis of Sins of Sinister is that it arises from seeds planted in the current timeline - from very obviously bad choices made by Krakoan leaders - I'm not sure you can say it's that far removed. If Krakoa was left as it is now, it's been explicitly shown that it would take over the world and murder the majority of its heroes within 10 years. Because apparently, despite years of battling Sinister and being the victims of his machinations, it's a surprise to the X-Men that he was a bit sneaky and pursuing his own agenda...

[Nicoclaws]

And then there's how only the ones the Quiet council likes get it....

Not really ?
We know the Five are working full time.
Some mutants did have "priority", mainly for "necessity" symbolical or practical (although I'll agree the Council totally used their privileges here and there).
The only rule about resurrection was the no-precog rule and that is gone.

[Havok83]

Not really ?
We know the Five are working full time.
Some mutants did have "priority", mainly for "necessity" symbolical or practical (although I'll agree the Council totally used their privileges here and there).
The only rule about resurrection was the no-precog rule and that is gone.

that was never actually a rule. It was a request from Moira bc she didnt want Destiny back. The QC was not aware of that and Magneto and Xavier just gave Mystique excuses whenever she brought it up

The only rule about resurrection regarding resurrections was the one issue about dupes/clones

[Kingdom X]

From a human’s perspective they are collateral to mutant existence. Imagine learning you have been living in a reality simulation that is intended to accelerate mutant transcendence to dominion. Watching the world become Sinisterized around you. Experiencing Judgement Day. Living through House of M. Or turning into Age of Apocalypse. Not as direct and immediate threat as forced labor camps with giant robot guards, but it’s an existential crisis nonetheless.

Once upon a time, Xavier founded his team to counter his fear of the threat of an out of control mutant with the power to warp reality.

At least in prior stories/eras, like Kulan Gath transforming New York, the X-Men worked to restore reality. This time Storm’s actions are not indifferent saying “This reality has life, too, and it’s more worthy. I’ll allow and protect it.”

Perhaps a new character-driven X-book focusing on an underdog team of humans without powers doing extraordinary sci-fi things to survive the fallout could be a fun read. Oh wait, that’s Orchis.

*If* the human population learns about the events of SOS (especially without the context), I can buy them being like this nation is way too powerful and we gotta do something. The rest… I’d only buy if baseline humans hated ALL superheroes and the mess that comes with the territory. Mutants don’t have a monopoly on crazy AUs popping up around them (see: Hickman’s Secret Wars, Aaron’s Heroes Reborn, etc.). Matter of fact does the general population remember HoM and AoA?

[BobbysWorld]

*If* the human population learns about the events of SOS (especially without the context), I can buy them being like this nation is way too powerful and we gotta do something. The rest… I’d only buy if baseline humans hated ALL superheroes and the mess that comes with the territory. Mutants don’t have a monopoly on crazy AUs popping up around them (see: Hickman’s Secret Wars, Aaron’s Heroes Reborn, etc.). Matter of fact does the general population remember HoM and AoA?

Not to mention, there's plenty of futures like Bishop's where mutants were even more oppressed than they've ever been so far in the 616 timeline, so what makes them any less viable in being preemptive about 'the human threat' than humans are based on Sins of Sinister, if we go by that logic?

[HomoSuperior]

*If* the human population learns about the events of SOS (especially without the context), I can buy them being like this nation is way too powerful and we gotta do something. The rest… I’d only buy if baseline humans hated ALL superheroes and the mess that comes with the territory. Mutants don’t have a monopoly on crazy AUs popping up around them (see: Hickman’s Secret Wars, Aaron’s Heroes Reborn, etc.). Matter of fact does the general population remember HoM and AoA?

Agreed - for the longest time, the meta narrative never made sense to me: why are mutants feared and hated more than Avengers, Fantastic Four.

Maybe the Krakoan era has shown mutants are a problem of scale. They combine their powers in ways that can / do terraform planets. As a nation with space exploration ambition, they attract alien conflict. Their unique tribal conflicts also tend to produce reality simulations.

Perhaps it’s not that Avengers and Fantastic Four, etc don’t find themselves wrapped up in similar situations. It’s that mutants tend to spur / cause the situations. No heroes reborn alternate universe without Onslaught.