Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[HomoSuperior]

*If* the human population learns about the events of SOS (especially without the context), I can buy them being like this nation is way too powerful and we gotta do something. The rest… I’d only buy if baseline humans hated ALL superheroes and the mess that comes with the territory. Mutants don’t have a monopoly on crazy AUs popping up around them (see: Hickman’s Secret Wars, Aaron’s Heroes Reborn, etc.). Matter of fact does the general population remember HoM and AoA?

Agreed - for the longest time, the meta narrative never made sense to me: why are mutants feared and hated more than Avengers, Fantastic Four.

Maybe the Krakoan era has shown mutants are a problem of scale. They combine their powers in ways that can / do terraform planets. As a nation with space exploration ambition, they attract alien conflict. Their unique tribal conflicts also tend to produce reality simulations.

How many times have mutants “snapped” their fingers vs Thanos’ “snap”?

Did the illuminati cause incursions or secretly do a bad job managing an unwinnable situation? IIRC - there would be no heroes reborn alternate universe without Onslaught.

Perhaps it’s not that Avengers and Fantastic Four, etc don’t find themselves wrapped up in similar situations. It’s that mutants tend to spur / cause the situations.

Not unlike Xavier’s original fear.

[Starfish]

I believe SoS will be treated differently because Gillen and White have insisted it's not an AU, but the future of the Krakoan age that definitely happened. It's just that something is bound to happen at the end of it that triggers a Moira-reset, giving them another shot of getting things right. The way I make sense of it is to treat SoS as Moira's tenth life, with FoX essentially being life 11 (except we're most likely not going back all the way, but rather a more recent save-point).

[Alan2099]

Agreed - for the longest time, the meta narrative never made sense to me: why are mutants feared and hated more than Avengers, Fantastic Four.

I've seen a lot of people say that over the years, but I've never had a problem with it. Other than mutants, there are two types of people with super powers. There are superheroes and supervillains. Naturally everybody loves a superhero. Except maybe Hulk... and Spider-man, Punisher, Ghost Rider, Namor, Dr. Strange, sometimes the Avengers... etc... anyway though. Superheroes. They're good.

Supervillains are bad and everybody hates those guys. There's no big call to stop them because people are already trying to stop them.

Mutants though... those guys are just the average person on the street, and frankly, the average person can be a real a-hole. Think about that guy that cuts you off in traffic without signalling. That customer that refuses to understand the fact that you don't take expired coupons for a competitor's store, the jerks that think just because they have a loud stereo that everybody wants to listen to their music, or things like the real dangerous people. Ones that walk around with guns just waiting for an excuse to shoot somebody. Now image those people can level a city block by looking at it. Do you WANT to give an a-hole an A-bomb without any repercussions?

[davetvs]

People who pretend the narrative doesn't make sense are purposely being obtuse. Mutants are born with superhuman abilities. That's it. They are not science experiments gone wrong or victims of cosmic particle bombardment. They aren't from an alien or mythological race the average person will never encounter. They're potentially your boss, neighbor, sister, son. We all know how tribalistic and discriminatory human nature is. Anyone "Born different" is an enemy to some.

[Devaishwarya]

Exactatiously. It makes absolute sense.

Especially as certain members have time and again used and abused their powers in the name of "mutants!" shouting anti-human rhetoric. Despite the fact that 95% of actual mutants don't give a **** about any of that and just wants to live their lives in peace and quiet.

[Sutekh]

People who pretend the narrative doesn't make sense are purposely being obtuse. Mutants are born with superhuman abilities. That's it. They are not science experiments gone wrong or victims of cosmic particle bombardment. They aren't from an alien or mythological race the average person will never encounter. They're potentially your boss, neighbor, sister, son. We all know how tribalistic and discriminatory human nature is. Anyone "Born different" is an enemy to some.

Exactly. It's not supposed to 'make sense.' Bigotry and hatred and fear are not rational, even if they are often wrapped up in layers of rationalization.

If it 'made sense' to hate or fear someone for being different, it wouldn't be *wrong.*

[marhawkman]

Not really ?
We know the Five are working full time.
Some mutants did have "priority", mainly for "necessity" symbolical or practical (although I'll agree the Council totally used their privileges here and there).
The only rule about resurrection was the no-precog rule and that is gone.

It may not be an official rule... But.... the outcome speaks for itself.

[Havok83]

Agreed - for the longest time, the meta narrative never made sense to me: why are mutants feared and hated more than Avengers, Fantastic Four.

Maybe the Krakoan era has shown mutants are a problem of scale. They combine their powers in ways that can / do terraform planets. As a nation with space exploration ambition, they attract alien conflict. Their unique tribal conflicts also tend to produce reality simulations.

How many times have mutants “snapped” their fingers vs Thanos’ “snap”?

Did the illuminati cause incursions or secretly do a bad job managing an unwinnable situation? IIRC - there would be no heroes reborn alternate universe without Onslaught.

Perhaps it’s not that Avengers and Fantastic Four, etc don’t find themselves wrapped up in similar situations. It’s that mutants tend to spur / cause the situations.

Not unlike Xavier’s original fear.

as if racism makes sense in real life. Ive always said that Avengers have good PR whereas mutants dont. Too many times politicians will use them as a cause for political power and having propaganda spread across the news is enough to rally some individuals against a cause. This literally happens every day in real life. If you cant see why the narrative around mutant makes sense, just think of Trump and the hate spread by some of his supporters. Its really not that hard to get when you think about it

[Nicoclaws]

It may not be an official rule... But.... the outcome speaks for itself.

What outcome are you talking about ? That we readers only saw known characters being ressurected ? Yeah, I don't think we would care seeing random genoshans going out of eggs (although we COULD have if we still had X-Factor. Still mad about it)

[Grunty]

People who pretend the narrative doesn't make sense are purposely being obtuse. Mutants are born with superhuman abilities. That's it. They are not science experiments gone wrong or victims of cosmic particle bombardment. They aren't from an alien or mythological race the average person will never encounter. They're potentially your boss, neighbor, sister, son. We all know how tribalistic and discriminatory human nature is. Anyone "Born different" is an enemy to some.

Good points.

But it's not just "being born" different though. That certainly plays a role. Because the above mentioned "superhuman abilities" actualy add an understandable or even reasonable layer of fear and concern to the existence of mutants.

This is also where the fact that they aren't singular science experiments gone wrong, victims of freak accidents or extra dimensional/terrestial mythological/alien beings is such a detriment to them. Because mutants are normal humans who at any moment could or allready had gained random super powers from practically nowhere.

Which is also where the idea of mutants being a viable "direct" metaphor for various minority groups runs into a logical problem. Since the presence of super human abilities adds an element that has no real world point of comparison.

While the baseless hatred of mutants which can be attributed to the mentioned tribalistic mindsets ala. "they look different...", "they can do things i can't...", "they act different..." "... i want them gone!" is certainly a viable factor, the fear of what their random super powers can potentialy do when not kept under control by the personal morals or enforced laws (like in My Hero Academia) is also somewhat reasonable.

Something that seems to be overlooked or ignored by some X-writers, perhaps in order to have an easier to use narrative.

Never the less both points highlight why the negative reception of mutants in the Marvel Universe compared to most super humans does make sense.

However it should also be considered that Avengers, Fantastic Four and individual super heros are also not safe from being hated and feared or at least met with scepticism, doubt and rejection either.

Basicly even the "celebrity super heros" Avengers seem to be only a scandal away from getting pelted with rotten eggs and tomatos aswell. To say nothing of how J.J.J. has made it his livelong mission to discredit Spiderman.

The difference of course is scope.

If one Avenger becomes brain washed and causes the destruction of a city, it will only affect this small circle of people and their reputation and potentialy only last for a while, before another "safe the world" scenario puts them back on the "nice" list.
If a mutant does the same, it will affect hundreds of thousands of people who's only connection to the person responcible is having the same funky super power granting gene and won't easily be ignored/forgotten, regardless of how often groups like the X-men safe the world afterwards.

as if racism makes sense in real life. Ive always said that Avengers have good PR whereas mutants dont. (...)

This idea sometimes makes me wonder how an alternate universe would look like in which governments and corperations decided that mutants and their powers are a massive asset rather than a problem and start recruiting those with viable powers in mass, while using PR companies to promote them.

Which could shift the discrimination from humans vs. mutants to good (usefull powered) mutants vs. bad (useless powered) mutants

[davetvs]

Which is also where the idea of mutants being a viable "direct" metaphor for various minority groups runs into a logical problem. Since the presence of super human abilities adds an element that has no real world point of comparison.

I disagree. If you replace superhuman abilities with some other trait, the metaphor stands, especially with the puberty element re: LGBTQ people. As far as society was concerned, I was a normal little boy like any other until I realized I was gay. I agree that the potential for mutant powers to be uncontrollable, dangerous, or both adds to the nuance around the topic but that makes it even richer, not less understandable. There's no good answer for how to deal with mutants, but sentinels and sterilization definitely aren't it.

[Kingdom X]

I disagree. If you replace superhuman abilities with some other trait, the metaphor stands, especially with the puberty element re: LGBTQ people. As far as society was concerned, I was a normal little boy like any other until I realized I was gay. I agree that the potential for mutant powers to be uncontrollable, dangerous, or both adds to the nuance around the topic but that makes it even richer, not less understandable. There's no good answer for how to deal with mutants, but sentinels and sterilization definitely aren't it.

I agree. The element of superpowers increases the stakes and adds some additional complications to the equation, but it still works perfectly fine as a metaphor. It especially doesn’t need to be a 1:1 comparison now that there are more diverse characters throughout Marvel comics.

[gonnagiveittoya]

Yeah the whole "I just want to live like everyone else" part of the metaphor kinda runs headlong into the "I am part of a genetically superior master race" stuff if you think about it too hard

[davetvs]

You're so committed to that line, I love it. Ride it til the wheels fall off babe.

[jwatson]

And yet countless people have power in marvel and mutants are far from the most powerful overall. Go figure.