Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[NK1988]

Apocalypse has had a strange relationship with the X-Men for a long time now. I'm a new reader but I did read like wikipedia and stuff or a while now. I can swear I remember hearing about how he was revived after House of M because of his role as strengthening mutantkind. He helped forge them into something greater or whatnot and the 198 remaining mutants needed that.

So it's not like he was always just a force of pure evil, even to the heroes.

There's also the fact Moira sought him out. He was one of the "paths' she attempted, and which failed. No doubt she convinced him the way she convinced Charles and Magneto. She literally has proof what he was going to try to do wouldn't work.

I don't care what anyone says, Krakoa Apocalypse has been my favorite part of the era so far in what I've read. It's not like he's actually repentant for what he's done in the past -



There's just a better way now

[Nicoclaws]

Exodus most definitely was a villian. With that said, I do agree with you in terms of people being able to ally themselves with him. He's not unreasonable. I dont think he's really changed much at all but they all had a common goal which has kept him in line

Yeah he is one I'm curious where he goes from here. He might follow Apocalypse.

[NK1988]

While I'm posting scans, though, I'm glad somebody said it finally:


I wish it was an adult with actual authority but you know, maybe this was the writer expressing exasperation.

[Havok83]

Apocalypse has had a strange relationship with the X-Men for a long time now. I'm a new reader but I did read like wikipedia and stuff or a while now. I can swear I remember hearing about how he was revived after House of M because of his role as strengthening mutantkind. He helped forge them into something greater or whatnot and the 198 remaining mutants needed that.

So it's not like he was always just a force of pure evil, even to the heroes.

There's also the fact Moira sought him out. He was one of the "paths' she attempted, and which failed. No doubt she convinced him the way she convinced Charles and Magneto. She literally has proof what he was going to try to do wouldn't work.

I don't care what anyone says, Krakoa Apocalypse has been my favorite part of the era so far in what I've read. It's not like he's actually repentant for what he's done in the past -



There's just a better way now

Did you ever read abut Simonson's original intention for Apocalypse? She got to write it out in X-Factor Forever. Basically he was preparing Earth for judgement by the Celestials (not unlike Judgement Day). He pushed for Survival of the Fittest bc he felt it would give Earth the best chance of being judged worth of passing.

Its a conversation that most people dont want to have but outside OG X-Factor, 616 Apocalypse has never been a good villian. Peope's really grasp onto TAS and AOA but both are alternate reality versions. Every story around Apocalypse from the 90s forward have sucked until Krakoa recontextualized him and finally found a way to make him actually work. I really worry for what they will do with him but I hope they dont try to reset him bc he wasnt that good before

[marhawkman]

Apocalypse has had a strange relationship with the X-Men for a long time now. I'm a new reader but I did read like wikipedia and stuff or a while now. I can swear I remember hearing about how he was revived after House of M because of his role as strengthening mutantkind. He helped forge them into something greater or whatnot and the 198 remaining mutants needed that.

So it's not like he was always just a force of pure evil, even to the heroes.

There's also the fact Moira sought him out. He was one of the "paths' she attempted, and which failed. No doubt she convinced him the way she convinced Charles and Magneto. She literally has proof what he was going to try to do wouldn't work.

I don't care what anyone says, Krakoa Apocalypse has been my favorite part of the era so far in what I've read. It's not like he's actually repentant for what he's done in the past -

I think the biggest misstep has been retconning the purpose of clan Akkaba, and having Apoccy basically disown them :/ Also the Genesis thing was dumb. It messes up too much lore..... :/

[DurararaFTW]

Did you ever read abut Simonson's original intention for Apocalypse? She got to write it out in X-Factor Forever. Basically he was preparing Earth for judgement by the Celestials (not unlike Judgement Day). He pushed for Survival of the Fittest bc he felt it would give Earth the best chance of being judged worth of passing.

Its a conversation that most people dont want to have but outside OG X-Factor, 616 Apocalypse has never been a good villian. Peope's really grasp onto TAS and AOA but both are alternate reality versions. Every story around Apocalypse from the 90s forward have sucked until Krakoa recontextualized him and finally found a way to make him actually work. I really worry for what they will do with him but I hope they dont try to reset him bc he wasnt that good before

He's been a good character when he's not the main villain. As a secondary villain to Stryfe in X-Cutioner's Song or Messiah War or as a posthumous character in Remender's Uncanny X-Force and Avengers he's good. Krakoa is not that different, he's not a good primary villain there either.

[Ra-El]

I think modern writers have focus too much in redeeming villains, favoring them too much that they apparently prefer to drag down heroic characters as long as it gives characters like Apocalypse or Mystique some moral ground to stand.

I don't care if Destine and Mystique love each other, they are both psychopaths who will kill anyone who stand in their way, now they want to me to sympathize with them? Destine would let the universe burn as long as she could be with Raven.

Apocalypse brags about destroying civilization killing what I assume was millions of people because they didn't fit his vision and now just because he had a crap family made out of jobbers and losers we are suppose to care? I hope Cable shoots his brains out before the end of this era.

The writers really want us to judge Xavier? He was the one Magneto worried about? Not Sinister, Shaw or Apocalypse? You know what, this whole crap of trying to redeem villains by dragging the heroes down to their level started with Magneto, so f him too.

Xavier only mistake was inviting them to the council in the first place, why the hell would they need Mystique? Shaw I understand, he had the trading business, Sinister had the dna data base, but Raven? She brought nothing to the table, she should never have been allowed in the Council. And as soon as he got Shaw connections and Sinister's data base he should have send both to the pits.

[Rift]

The writers really want us to judge Xavier? He was the one Magneto worried about? Not Sinister, Shaw or Apocalypse? You know what, this whole crap of trying to redeem villains by dragging the heroes down to their level started with Magneto, so f him too.

Magneto was probably worried about them, too. But you don't need to warn Storm about the dangers she's already aware of. He wanted Storm to keep her eyes on Xavier, because despite being one of the most innocent people on the Council, he had the potential to be one of Krakoa's biggest threats. He knew Xavier's good intentions could be exploited and it would be his downfall. The WHR incident came about because Xavier was trying to save millions of human lives, and believed he was also saving mutants by sending them to Mars.

Don't get me wrong, Xavier's defs flawed and he has done some sketchy things over the years. And I think Spurrier let his own daddy/son issues go to his head when he was writing Xavier.

[Havok83]

The writers really want us to judge Xavier? He was the one Magneto worried about? Not Sinister, Shaw or Apocalypse? You know what, this whole crap of trying to redeem villains by dragging the heroes down to their level started with Magneto, so f him too.
.

Why? Magneto's redemption was actually pretty well done and it didnt happen at the expense of destroying any heroes

[marhawkman]

He's been a good character when he's not the main villain. As a secondary villain to Stryfe in X-Cutioner's Song or Messiah War or as a posthumous character in Remender's Uncanny X-Force and Avengers he's good. Krakoa is not that different, he's not a good primary villain there either.

This is part of why I liked Apoccy in the old AvD comic arc. He's not a hero, he's a bad guy fighting another bad guy.

[Ra-El]

Why? Magneto's redemption was actually pretty well done and it didnt happen at the expense of destroying any heroes

But it was probably the one who started the trend of thinking that giving villains a sad backstory is enough to turn them into heroes. At the end what we got is just edgy lords who are "cool" because they say one-liners and call out the heroes as defenders of the status quo. But who cares if they have done a few mass murders or genocides back in the day, as long as their childhood pet got hit by a car or whatever they get a pass.

[NK1988]

I might not have finished Krakoa yet - at Hellfire Gala 2021 - but I don't think I'm supposed to sympathize with the woman introduced by murdering Moira in a specifically horrifically painful way. Even if you thought Moira inventing a "cure" was too dangerous, having Pyra burn her to death as slowly as possible? Yeah, Destiny clearly sucks a lot and that isn't ambiguous.

[Havok83]

I might not have finished Krakoa yet - at Hellfire Gala 2021 - but I don't think I'm supposed to sympathize with the woman introduced by murdering Moira in a specifically horrifically painful way. Even if you thought Moira inventing a "cure" was too dangerous, having Pyra burn her to death as slowly as possible? Yeah, Destiny clearly sucks a lot and that isn't ambiguous.

She's not a decrepit bitter looking old lady anymore so she's actually been quite pleasant

[whitecrown]

Did you ever read abut Simonson's original intention for Apocalypse? She got to write it out in X-Factor Forever. Basically he was preparing Earth for judgement by the Celestials (not unlike Judgement Day). He pushed for Survival of the Fittest bc he felt it would give Earth the best chance of being judged worth of passing.

Its a conversation that most people dont want to have but outside OG X-Factor, 616 Apocalypse has never been a good villian. Peope's really grasp onto TAS and AOA but both are alternate reality versions. Every story around Apocalypse from the 90s forward have sucked until Krakoa recontextualized him and finally found a way to make him actually work. I really worry for what they will do with him but I hope they dont try to reset him bc he wasnt that good before

X-Factor Forever is my favorite incarnation of Apocalypse. He felt like the character Simonson actually created and not like the recurring nuisance he became in the 90s under the pens of different writers, his story getting more and more convoluted each time. The celestials and evolution was always his MO, not making him Egyptian and all the Clan Akkaba stuff with Rama-Tut. Most media seems to go the Egyptian route, like X-Men: Apocalypse and X-Men Evolution when in Simonson's backstory, he was much older than ancient Egypt and that was just one incarnation of him. He really was the world's oldest mutant, not Selene.

Agreed that outside of that, he's never really worked except for in TAS, AOA, and Remender's UXF where he's only a child and killed off at the start. It's more about his legacy and Remender did a good job of reabsorbing the mythos of Apocalypse that Simonson established, with the Celestials and his obsession with evolving mankind, with the Eygptian stuff Apocalypse got in the 90s.

[whitecrown]

But it was probably the one who started the trend of thinking that giving villains a sad backstory is enough to turn them into heroes. At the end what we got is just edgy lords who are "cool" because they say one-liners and call out the heroes as defenders of the status quo. But who cares if they have done a few mass murders or genocides back in the day, as long as their childhood pet got hit by a car or whatever they get a pass.

Agreed. It's gotten very stale now. Magneto and Rogue are the only two X-Villains whose redemptions ever felt earned to me, even if in Magneto's case, he could vacillate back and forth between sides. Rogue is the only one of the former villains I consider a true X-Man. I have zero interest in seeing Sabretooth, Mystique, Juggernaut, Frost, Frenzy, Shaw, Sinister, Exodus, Selene, Apocalypse, etc. all vie for X-Men membership when they all should be locked up for their crimes against humanity and even mutantkind. These people are not heroes and pretty much every major tragedy in the X-Men's lives occurred because of them.