Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[wano]

Well, I think these days creators are pretty apprehensive about doing anything too dramatic and/or drastic with her, for... reasons. And I also think moderate to casual fans, have been conditioned to shy away from engaging in most conversations involving her, due to some unending, eXtreme posturing by a vocally aggressive contingent of her fanbase. With them, it seems to be more about Storm the infallible feats machine, and less about Ororo the flawed, multifaceted character. Hence why she's often labeled as boring, and complained about as just being... there. Most the time, only the surface qualities of Storm get any play in the modern day, and even then... it's usually done in a decidedly superficial way.

Now that's interesting... I guess every step of a path a writer about to tackle storm involves not pissing off certain minorities, portray her in a stereotypical way, avoid any micro agressions and problematic portrayals and I'm sure they aren't left with a lot, plus since ta he so Coates got a claim on her there's not a lot left to be done with her. Plus Coates is black so he won't get labeled as racist if he gets her wrong, white writers probably are under constant pressure when writing her. On the other hand Cyclops is straight, white and male, his writers got to take all the risks, all the rewards, all the falls and could pretty much have a broader range of what to do with him because they weren't under such scrutiny , talk about white male privilege

[Heroine Addict]

... I don’t think she’s written that way for all the reasons you list, but given the time and author of XXM, it’s compelling. Storm having a unique opinion among the X-Men of the X-Men mission can only be a good thing for her character. No?

Oh, okay, gotcha. I thought it might be from something far more recent. But yes, Storm still believing in the dream but having a dissenting opinion on how to go about it, could provide an interesting dimension to her character. Again tho, I think Marvel's wary of challenging preconceived, long-held notions of her.

[U.N. Owen]

Apocalyptic futures have been a long staple of the X-Men, but I find them to not even be has high caliber as the original two issues of Days of Future Past. One dark future is fine, but the number the X-books church out has become toxic. This doesn't help that they've gone from having big, grand, and semi-relatable reasons like political assassination causing mass hysteria to weird ones like Here Comes Tomorrow's need for Emma and Scott to get together.

It doesn't add value to the universe or the multiverse. In fact, it makes me not want to read more X-Men comics because it feels like they are perpetually doomed to fail for eternity.

It's parody worthy at this point. Hey X mutant writes a bad review of a restaurant and promptly causes the owner to take over the world and enslave the mutants.

[Heroine Addict]

Now that's interesting... I guess every step of a path a writer about to tackle storm involves not pissing off certain minorities, portray her in a stereotypical way, avoid any micro agressions and problematic portrayals and I'm sure they aren't left with a lot, plus since ta he so Coates got a claim on her there's not a lot left to be done with her. Plus Coates is black so he won't get labeled as racist if he gets her wrong, white writers probably are under constant pressure when writing her. On the other hand Cyclops is straight, white and male, his writers got to take all the risks, all the rewards, all the falls and could pretty much have a broader range of what to do with him because they weren't under such scrutiny , talk about white male privilege

Yes, eXactly. If I were to guess, I'd say an unspoken 'don't rock the boat too hard' rule, probably looms large. And if not, some may feel as tho it does. You could probably even apply a:

... label, when it comes to diehard fans' perceptions of her.

It's kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario, that results in a better to play it safe than sorry outcome, in the end.

[CRaymond]

I’d love to resurrect the Pro/Con Workshops I helped start on the DC Forum to discuss what works and what doesn’t of various X characters, but I fear there’s wayyyy too many rabid, dogmatic, literalist fans of incredibly nuanced, poorly gardened superheroes.

[Striderblack01]

Now that's interesting... I guess every step of a path a writer about to tackle storm involves not pissing off certain minorities, portray her in a stereotypical way, avoid any micro agressions and problematic portrayals and I'm sure they aren't left with a lot, plus since ta he so Coates got a claim on her there's not a lot left to be done with her. Plus Coates is black so he won't get labeled as racist if he gets her wrong, white writers probably are under constant pressure when writing her. On the other hand Cyclops is straight, white and male, his writers got to take all the risks, all the rewards, all the falls and could pretty much have a broader range of what to do with him because they weren't under such scrutiny , talk about white male privilege

The way that you've described the situation sounds less like privilege and more like cowardice.
An aversion to taking a chance by telling stories that prominently feature characters of different races for fear of getting something wrong and "stepping on a landmine" causing fan outrage/backlash.

The result, however, is the same: people of color getting relegated to the sidelines in stories.
And, I have to admit, that fear impulse is understandable given the current situation.

1) We comic book fans are a very vocal and passionate group, who are highly possessive of our favorite characters. We're very difficult to please and not very forgiving.

2) There is a growing notion that only people who belong to a certain group are qualified to tell stories involving characters of said group and no one else.

While I want more diversity in the creative teams, I don't believe we're better served by pigeon-holing any creative into specific and narrow niches. As much as it pains me to say this, characters should be whatever the story needs them to be. That's not to say we excuse mis-characterizations, inconsistencies, laziness, or even offensive material in our story-telling. It just means we might be holding on too tightly to our own detriment.

Creatives should do the leg work and have the courage to tell stories.
And we, as an audience, should at least be open to those stories, and approach their inevitable missteps as adults and not an angry mob.

[Wolverine12]

That's enough talk about Storm fans. It's off topic and if I didn't know better I would say some of you are trying to bait an argument with the repetitive nature of your posts.

[wano]

The way that you've described the situation sounds less like privilege and more like cowardice.
An aversion to taking a chance by telling stories that prominently feature characters of different races for fear of getting something wrong and "stepping on a landmine" causing fan outrage/backlash.

The result, however, is the same: people of color getting relegated to the sidelines in stories.
And, I have to admit, that fear impulse is understandable given the current situation.

1) We comic book fans are a very vocal and passionate group, who are highly possessive of our favorite characters. We're very difficult to please and not very forgiving.

2) There is a growing notion that only people who belong to a certain group are qualified to tell stories involving characters of said group and no one else.

While I want more diversity in the creative teams, I don't believe we're better served by pigeon-holing any creative into specific and narrow niches. As much as it pains me to say this, characters should be whatever the story needs them to be. That's not to say we excuse mis-characterizations, inconsistencies, laziness, or even offensive material in our story-telling. It just means we might be holding on too tightly to our own detriment.

Creatives should do the leg work and have the courage to tell stories.
And we, as an audience, should at least be open to those stories, and approach their inevitable missteps as adults and not an angry mob.

I'll give you a thought exercise, take anything controversial that Cyclops has done, or something regular, then change him into a minority /lgbt /female /ethnic group, etc and tell me it's offensive or the story would fly. My point is that excessive scrutiny for certain stories and characters reduces the material that could be written for them and the people willing to write them diminishes, on top of that getting labeled as a racist for a micro agression or something that might be considered racist or offensive but the editor couldn't catch could get you ostracized and lose you many job opportunities, specially in marvel were it's been shown that conservative employees are afraid of outing themselves as conservatives because it means less work opportunities. One would rather play it safe than sorry, and that translates into playing it safe with minority characters or avoiding them altogether, and in turn gives them less chance of getting good stories, and you can't blame the whites for that. But ultimately the white characters are the ones with less scrutiny and better chances of more dynamic stories

[Striderblack01]

I'll give you a thought exercise, take anything controversial that Cyclops has done, or something regular, then change him into a minority /lgbt /female /ethnic group, etc and tell me it's offensive or the story would fly.

I don't think Scott has done anything controversial or villainous.
He did not 'lose his way' and does not need redemption.

I'll go with Beast instead.

My point is that excessive scrutiny for certain stories and characters reduces the material that could be written for them and the people willing to write them diminishes, on top of that getting labeled as a racist for a micro agression or something that might be considered racist or offensive but the editor couldn't catch could get you ostracized and lose you many job opportunities, specially in marvel were it's been shown that conservative employees are afraid of outing themselves as conservatives because it means less work opportunities. One would rather play it safe than sorry, and that translates into playing it safe with minority characters or avoiding them altogether, and in turn gives them less chance of getting good stories, and you can't blame the whites for that. But ultimately the white characters are the ones with less scrutiny and better chances of more dynamic stories

Yeah.
I was not refuting your assessment in regards to the current situation.

I was stating that a possible solution to that situation is that creatives should show courage and write those 'less safe' stories anyway, and that we, in turn, do not limit creatives to only writing stories of their own races and approach their mistakes calmly and respectfully.

I am advocating for better Storm stories, despite my dislike for the character.

[Heroine Addict]

... An aversion to taking a chance when telling stories that prominently feature characters of different races for fear of getting something wrong and "stepping on a landmine" causing fan outrage/backlash.

... We comic book fans are a very vocal and passionate group, who are highly possessive of our favorite characters. We're very difficult to please and not very forgiving.

... we might be holding on too tightly to our own detriment.

... we, as an audience, should at least be open to... stories, and approach their inevitable missteps as adults and not an angry mob.

That's the way I took what was meant, overall, but could've been mistaken.

And a BIG YES to ALL of this! To be fair though, it's not just with fans of characters that represent different races. I've eXperienced within my own Polaris and Dazzler fandoms for instance, others adopting and demanding increasingly stringent requirements, as to how they should be portrayed. In a way, it's almost gone from what we would like to see, to what HAS to be. And anything & everything other than that, seems unacceptable and is admonished, often harshly and with utter disdain. I suppose you could broaden that to a much wider scope even, to include the likes of Batman, Spider-Man, and Wolverine, say. Wherein they're boXed in so to speak, to some degree also, by eXpectations and their own, familiar trappings.

[Hall]

I think Cyclops is boring in the same way Captain America is boring, but it doesn't make either boring to read. They just aren't exciting personalities, probably partially because of who they are and what they represent meaning they're under a ton of constant pressure to be calm, rational, measured, etc. That's why I thought mutant revolutionary Cyclops was an organic next step for the character.

Cyclops has not been boring since he married the Jean Grey Clone. I don't know much about Captain America but from the movies I like him. his movies are the only MCU movies that are taken seriously for the most part. As a fan of xmen, I like that a lot about his world.

[Heroine Addict]

Just wanted to add that the issue being discussed, of creators likely being reluctant to take risks due to multiple concerns, is indeed magnified with minority characters. Whether it be race, seXuality, gender, ethnicity, or what have you, the liability is definitely larger, and more intensely felt.

[The Thunderbird]

I don't really mind time travel or alternate realities that much. In fact, I actually really like the concept as they can allow for portraying unique settings and different characterizations. It's really how they should be done. I don't really have anything against clones either.

[PwrdOn]

Just wanted to add that the issue being discussed, of creators likely being reluctant to take risks due to multiple concerns, is indeed magnified with minority characters. Whether it be race, seXuality, gender, ethnicity, or what have you, the liability is definitely larger, and more intensely felt.

It's not so much that writers don't want to take risks with minority characters, it's just that they're judged differently when they do so because of double standards. White men in comics, as in life, often can get away with doing blatantly immoral and sadistic acts while still being portrayed as edgy and badass, whereas anyone else trying to do the same would instantly be branded a psychopath.

[wano]

It's not so much that writers don't want to take risks with minority characters, it's just that they're judged differently when they do so because of double standards. White men in comics, as in life, often can get away with doing blatantly immoral and sadistic acts while still being portrayed as edgy and badass, whereas anyone else trying to do the same would instantly be branded a psychopath.

Actually it's more complicated than that, we don't have that many minority villains unless they're facing a minority hero, and let's not even go with LGBT+ villains. It's easier to portray an evil white man than an evil Asian /black/Latino because you'd get complaints about negative portrayals of minorities or following some sort of stereotype ... Actually some of the most represented villains are evil corporate white men because they don't offend anyone, but that gets translated into more roles for white actors /characters...