Wonder Woman Should Be Gay

[Vanguard-01]

Let's read your source in it's entirety instead of cherry-picking a few words of it, shall we?

There is a word in the language of the area from which the historical Amazons are said to come, that sounds like the word "Amazon." Seems the most logical origin point to me.

Either way, until someone comes up with a word that specifically denotes the concept of a male Amazon, I remain perfectly comfortable going with the idea that calling a man an "Amazon," when he's been accepted into said culture, perfectly acceptable.

[Vanguard-01]

Who says they're supposed to be about gender equality? I think of them as feminists, that's not necessarily the same thing.

If the Amazons aren't about gender equality, then Diana's sacred mission to Man's World kind of falls flat on its face. As does her entire status as a champion of equality.

Take "gender equality" out of her motivations? You're left with a female supremacist. Good luck marketing THAT to the world, these days.

[Razor Tiara]

If the Amazons aren't about gender equality, then Diana's sacred mission to Man's World kind of falls flat on its face. As does her entire status as a champion of equality.

Take "gender equality" out of her motivations? You're left with a female supremacist. Good luck marketing THAT to the world, these days.

Marston's Amazons were presented as being more enlightened, more powerful and all around superior to men. Afterwards, no matter how they were written, some people still saw them that way. That's why Azz dragged them down into the gutter, so readers couldn't possibly make that mistake and he was rewarded with worldwide acclaim.


We've all seen how feminism is received on comic book message boards, there's a certain segment that can't see the concept as gender equality at all, so they balk at it and start talking about feminazis, like men are somehow being oppressed, when that's simply not the case.

[AmiMizuno]

One thing is truth Diana was to fight for peace. The Champion of Peace should still be true. I feel that The amazons should be more of Gender Equality and the Amazons such has the Banas Femnazis

[gwhh]

He was NOT married to two women at the same time.

He was married to his wife another women lived in his house and they had sex also. Back than that was a crime and people want to jail for that all the time. So it was a pretty unusally and gusty move!!

That does not make any sense to me although there is a parallel to my suggestion.
The Mormons moved from back east to Utah because of persecution and supposedly lost a lot of men so they decided to allow polygamy. Or at least that’s my understanding of why Mormons allowed a man to have more than one wife, I could be wrong.

Anyways William Marston was a bigamist with two wives and probably got all his thoughts on feminism from his wives and probably would have incorporated bigamy into his Wonder Woman story if he could have gotten away with it.

[Jesters Joker]

He was NOT married to two women at the same time.

You mean legally he was not married to two women at the same time.

http://marintheatre.org/productions/...h-marston-bio/

[Vanguard-01]

Marston's Amazons were presented as being more enlightened, more powerful and all around superior to men. Afterwards, no matter how they were written, some people still saw them that way. That's why Azz dragged them down into the gutter, so readers couldn't possibly make that mistake and he was rewarded with worldwide acclaim.

Azz didn't "drag them into the gutter." He turned them into flawed people who have made bad choices in their lives. You're right: no one can misperceive the Amazons as being inherently superior beings from the rest of the human race anymore. Now the Amazons are right out there, with their flaws on display. Just like everyone else.

Now, don't get me wrong. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Azz went too far with the flawed Amazon agenda. Turning them into murderers and primitives was in no way necessary to show the Amazons as being flawed, and if DC would let me retcon one thing in the entire New 52, that's the thing I'd retcon. He could've just had the Amazons do the sex raids, leave the men alive, and trade their sons for weapons. There you go: flaws. That's plenty of flaws right there. They don't like men and they're afraid of dealing with them too closely. Those are much easier flaws to swallow for everybody.

Still, it's important to remember that the Amazons are no better and no worse than anyone else in the world, now. They can't claim moral superiority over us. We can't claim moral superiority over them. Unlike us? The Amazons have a strong, charismatic leader who is now going to make it her business to lead her people out of "the gutter" and into a better, brighter future.

We've all seen how feminism is received on comic book message boards, there's a certain segment that can't see the concept as gender equality at all, so they balk at it and start talking about feminazis, like men are somehow being oppressed, when that's simply not the case.

No disagreement here, at all. Some people just have to ruin the concept for everyone. Unfortunately, there are people on this message board (and others) that are on the other extreme. There are "feminists" on this board who really DO seem to want "feminism" to mean "oppressing men."

Just one more shining example of the stupidity of extremism.

[Razor Tiara]

Azz didn't "drag them into the gutter." He turned them into flawed people who have made bad choices in their lives. You're right: no one can misperceive the Amazons as being inherently superior beings from the rest of the human race anymore. Now the Amazons are right out there, with their flaws on display. Just like everyone else.

Now, don't get me wrong. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Azz went too far with the flawed Amazon agenda. Turning them into murderers and primitives was in no way necessary to show the Amazons as being flawed, and if DC would let me retcon one thing in the entire New 52, that's the thing I'd retcon. He could've just had the Amazons do the sex raids, leave the men alive, and trade their sons for weapons. There you go: flaws. That's plenty of flaws right there. They don't like men and they're afraid of dealing with them too closely. Those are much easier flaws to swallow for everybody.

Still, it's important to remember that the Amazons are no better and no worse than anyone else in the world, now. They can't claim moral superiority over us. We can't claim moral superiority over them. Unlike us? The Amazons have a strong, charismatic leader who is now going to make it her business to lead her people out of "the gutter" and into a better, brighter future.



No disagreement here, at all. Some people just have to ruin the concept for everyone. Unfortunately, there are people on this message board (and others) that are on the other extreme. There are "feminists" on this board who really DO seem to want "feminism" to mean "oppressing men."

Just one more shining example of the stupidity of extremism.

Your "flawed" Amazons are my "guttersnipes" and yes they were dragged down there unnecessarily. Apparently for spite and sensationalism. You know, the same spite that got us Aleka and Dessa instead of Artemis and Phillippus and a rancid blonde Hippolyta without the Amazon tech that accompanied her before.

The whole point of having Amazons in the book was to show what women could accomplish without men. Azz made sure they can accomplish absolutely nothing but hatred, without Diana there to guide them.

[Vanguard-01]

Your "flawed" Amazons are my "guttersnipes" and yes they were dragged down there unnecessarily. Apparently for spite and sensationalism. You know, the same spite that got us Aleka and Dessa instead of Artemis and Phillippus and a rancid blonde Hippolyta without the Amazon tech that accompanied her before.

Azz gave us Aleka.....then he killed her. That leaves the door wide open for the Finches, or someone else, to bring back Artemis.

Dessa? Won't be surprised if she bites it too.

Aleka and Dessa are don't strike me as being intended to be replacements for Artemis and Philipus. If they were, then why kill them off in his story? I think he just wanted to work with his own characters, and he intended to get rid of them by the end of the story, in order to make it possible for the return of Diana's real supporting cast.

And I would LOVE for you to show me some evidence that even HINTS that Azz did what he did with the Amazons out of spite. Sensationalism? Perhaps. But I've neither seen nor heard anything that makes me think he did it with malice and intent.

And you can't really call Hippolyta "rancid" because what you know about her can be written on your fingernail. We know she made a big mistake in sleeping with Zeus. That's really the only thing that makes her "rancid" in your eyes. And that may not have been entirely her fault. I'm still not ruling out the possibility that Zeus' power may have somehow influenced Hippolyta. Strife can't be ruled out as a factor, either. Hippolyta's indiscretion certainly created no shortage of turmoil, now didn't it? Or? A new theory I had is that we haven't heard the full story about Diana's conception. Maybe we'll learn that Zeus came to Hippolyta and told her of some other prophecy that required the two of them to conceive a child for the greater good of the world. Hippolyta may have done what she did out of a sense of duty, rather than just being unable to say "No" to a married man.

We saw Hippolyta in Demon Knights, and there was nothing "rancid" about her. She was a strong, competent leader who even allowed a couple men to stay on Paradise Island during that arc. The men weren't harmed or molested in any way.

Other than that? The only other stuff we know about Hippolyta is that she loved her daughter and lied to her to protect her. Hardly "rancid" in my book.

The whole point of having Amazons in the book was to show what women could accomplish without men. Azz made sure they can accomplish absolutely nothing but hatred, without Diana there to guide them.

Apparently, they still built a solid, stable society that lasted for over three thousand years. Apparently, they're still some of the finest warriors the world has ever seen. Apparently they've still been collecting knowledge and learning from all over the world for millennia.

They've still accomplished plenty of things. Where's the advanced tech? I have no idea. And that's one of my biggest gripes about Azz's run. But you're grossly oversimplifying things.

[gwhh]

I have seen no evidence that amazon could mean male or female. Plus down though time it come to mean female only.

We need to think of word that could mean "male amazon"??

They have a word for female ninja after all!!