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  1. #46
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    There was almost no action in this movie. I wonder how they spent so much money when there's almost no special effects. I liked Routh but it was definitely lacking in action, which MOS supplied a lot of. Such an opposite end of the spectrum for both movies. Singer almost killed the Superman franchise.

  2. #47
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    I still like it a lot better then Man of Steel. The only thing that kind of turned me off in it was the portrayal of Superman as a deadbeat Dad.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colossus1980 View Post
    There was almost no action in this movie. I wonder how they spent so much money when there's almost no special effects. I liked Routh but it was definitely lacking in action, which MOS supplied a lot of. Such an opposite end of the spectrum for both movies. Singer almost killed the Superman franchise.
    There ere plenty of special effects in the movie.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teek View Post
    Yes. Literally anybody could have seen that coming. Even the TSA knows to check wheelchairs for explosives.
    And yet, the guards at the courthouse didn't. Moreover, checking for explosives is the TSA's job. They're paid to treat everyone they see as a potential threat. Superman wasn't at the courthouse to provide security, he was there to testify.

  5. #50
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    As for Returns . . . I still find it interesting that, for all the ruckus over Superman killing Zod, no one appeared to have an issue with the fact that in Returns he lifted that kryptonite island into space without any concern for the fact that there were people on it, all but two of whom were clearly shown to have been killed as a result of his actions.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by dittobeetle View Post
    fourth prize to super-stalker creepin' on Lois with X-Ray vision...
    This is where the movie totally lost me. Superman would NEVER do this.

  7. #52
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    I went to see this movie on the opening day and I had purposely stayed away from any advance reviews that might spoil the movie for me. That let me get swept up in the story and I totally went with it. All the humour and the emotion, all the sweet call-outs to the Donner Superman, all the beautifully photographed scenes and little quirks from the actors. From the opening shot to the final credits, I was totally immersed in that movie.

    And I'm glad I did it that way. Now, no matter how much other people try to take that away from me and insist that I should hate the movie [hey it's fine for other people to hate what movies they want to hate, but they shouldn't need the rest of us to hate them, too], that experience can never be taken away from me. It's mine.
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  8. #53
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    Widely regarded as one of the worst superhero movies ever made?

    Trolling much?

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by cfoshin View Post
    Actually in the extended version Superman DID save survivors in that explosion in the Capitol building. It happened. Plus, the people in that burning room were already extra crispy. ;P He failed to save them because the bomb was wrapped in lead so he couldn't see and seriously even Superman wouldn't have expected someone to blow up the place.
    That must be in the extended cut. I wasn't lucky enough to buy it a few weeks ago when it was accidentally released early digitally.
    Quote Originally Posted by GhostPirate View Post
    Quicksilver saved an entire school full of people from an explosion. QS>>>> Snyderman
    Fox's QS has FTL speeds. We know MOS Supes tops out at the speed of sound (767 mph), hence all the sonic booms he does. Anybody with FTL speeds could've done what Fox's QS did.

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostPirate View Post

    Where was any of that explained within the current continuity of the DCCU? I don't recall any bits in either MoS or BvS where his inability to see through lead is explained, how Luthor would be privy to that knowledge, or that lead was actually added to the wheelchair for that express purpose? All it comes off as is reaching for explanations for poor storytelling. In film it's supposed to be "show don't tell", but at some point relevant info should be either shown, told, or both. All the above is relevant info and should be explained at some point in the context of one of the two movies, at least if the filmmakers don't want Superman to come off as incompetent or lazy (super speed + super senses + angry mob outside + today's socio-political environment = a responsible Superman would have taken the .0001 of a second to X-ray the courtroom, realized he couldn't see through the wheelchair, examined it with his other senses and taken action to avert the crisis).
    Likely the extended cut, he's referring to. Also Lex is a genius. There were more than enough evidence and display of Superman's power for Lex to figure out his powers and limitations, going by what Superman displayed in the presence of the US military (at the base and in Smallville) alone.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stupid1 View Post
    Widely regarded as one of the worst superhero movies ever made?

    Trolling much?
    Yeah, for all it's problems (and I thought it did waste a well cast Routh) Returns shouldn't be regarded as even one of the 5 worst DC superhero movies ever made. It's like whoever made that statement forgot about Superman: Q4P, Batman & Robin, Steel, Catwoman, 2 Swamp Thing movies, Jonah Hex, etc.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by dittobeetle View Post
    Fair enough. My hyperbole does rather easily get away from me, and it's helpful to be called on it. Additionally, you're right about Hulk/Banner being manipulated to do horrible things.

    Still, the Superman of MoS does inflict a great deal of damage on an urban population, simply by choosing not to try to shift the ground of battle. Reeve's Superman makes the same mistake at first, but is allowed to correct it - I guess I just wish that Cavill's Clark had the same opportunity. I agree, in light of your comments, that the Superman of the Snyder-verse does actually reflect on and care about these matters. I suppose my wish is that we could see more of him in the hero's role - as he is, as you point out, at the beginning of his first film and at the end of his latest.

    As to the Nuclear Man's demise in Superman IV, you're right again - Superman would never kill Bizarro, and the Nuclear Man is little more than an 80s MTV Bizarro with terrible hair. Nevertheless, at the end of Superman IV, I feel I've watched a (yes, terrible) movie about a superhero. I don't feel that way with Man of Steel. The big problem with Man of Steel is that, whether he cares or not, Clark isn't shown dramatically, effectively, to choose to be Superman, of his own volition, without inspiration by his father. I guess I feel that the whole idea of Superman should be Clark's invention, with maybe some help from John and Martha Kent, as it has been in other versions. In MoS, he's bequeathed a suit, and with it an assumed heroic persona. It just doesn't ever feel like he stands for something. But I do admit that, yes, he helps people, and at times, we can see that he cares. Superman needs to be about more than that, don't you think?
    I know what your saying mate. With I don't blame Cavil for BvS. Snyder went full Bat-Crazy with BvS. It's a Batman movie featuring Superman. Sad thing about both MOS and BvS is that for Superman's character there are shades of brilliance in how he acts and interacts with people.

    All his scenes with Lois are great.



    His scenes with his mom are also great.




    You gotta admire Supes though. Even after Luthor bombed the Capitol, killed all those people, had Martha kidnapped, threw Lois off a roof and orchestrated a fight between him and Batman, Superman still chooses to save Luthor from his own monstrosity.



    Again, because it was the right thing to do.


    I really do feel that Superman gets a bad rap in these Snyder movies. Compared to the Superman of Superman II and Returns, Cavil Superman actually accomplishes a lot. But after BvS all you hear about is how bad Superman was and how awesome Batman was. A psychotic, murderous, paranoid, and extreme measures Batman was A-ok with nearly everybody, but Superman is the one who "needs fixing". Guy can't win for losing, I guess.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colossus1980 View Post
    There was almost no action in this movie. I wonder how they spent so much money when there's almost no special effects. I liked Routh but it was definitely lacking in action, which MOS supplied a lot of. Such an opposite end of the spectrum for both movies. Singer almost killed the Superman franchise.
    I may be mis-remembering, but I recall that a lot of that movie's budget was due it being added to the previously aborted attempted to get a Superman movies made. There was the whole Superman Lives movie that Tim Burton was trying to make, as well as another that was being attempted by Barry Sonenfeld that I think was supposed to have polar bears and giant mechanical spiders or something. The money for those movies were rolled into the production budget of Superman Returns.

    Once again, not 100% sure.
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  13. #58
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    Found an article talking about it HERE
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  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arfguy View Post
    I may be mis-remembering, but I recall that a lot of that movie's budget was due it being added to the previously aborted attempted to get a Superman movies made. There was the whole Superman Lives movie that Tim Burton was trying to make, as well as another that was being attempted by Barry Sonenfeld that I think was supposed to have polar bears and giant mechanical spiders or something. The money for those movies were rolled into the production budget of Superman Returns.

    Once again, not 100% sure.
    The official budget for SR was $230 million. Tack on and $30-40 million for all the failed Superman projects that never got off the ground. Of the $230 million though, $60 million was advertising, and another $50 million allegedly was paid to the Brando estate to use his likeness and voice from Superman TM in SR.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalorama View Post
    As for Returns . . . I still find it interesting that, for all the ruckus over Superman killing Zod, no one appeared to have an issue with the fact that in Returns he lifted that kryptonite island into space without any concern for the fact that there were people on it, all but two of whom were clearly shown to have been killed as a result of his actions.
    I did. In several threads pre-CBR kablooey, I posted that Superman doesn't kill, even by accident.

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