"Captain America: Steve Rogers" #2 Preview Offers Clues to Cap's Hydra Turn

[solletaire]

haha, to everyone who lost their minds over this... I'm sorry but you folks whoever yuo are kind of deserve the chuckle

I mean, it's comics... Steve will probably be back to normal by issue #6 or #7

[Xero Kaiser]

Wait...so Cap's heel turn has an explanation? Steve Rogers hasn't actually been evil this entire time? But the internet assured me that the sky itself was on fire and that he was ruined forever and stuff 'n other things. I'm so confused now.

am I just overestimating his core moral strength as no one is immune to cosmic entities screwing you up.

Honestly, I think it'd be a little silly for a mortal man to be immune to cosmic-level entities.

[protege]

One thing i took from this is that kobik is now with the thunderbolts. I think a throwdown with the red skull is in their future, which doesn't interest me.

[sifighter]

Dressed sex.

...HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

That was the funniest point blank response I've ever read.

[ijacksparrow]

Regardless the obvious outcome that everyone around here had already predicted, it was a beyond stupid twist from Marvel Comics and I can't believe Alonso allowed they going that way.

We all got it as soon as we saw it: it's Superior Spider-Man all over again, this time with cosmic cubes as the culprit. Superior Spider-Man was a silly idea turned epic by Dan Slott, but this Captain America twist had terribly timing written all over:

So you have the biggest blockbuster in the year in the shape of Captain America: Civil War with Captain America standing his ground and convictions to save his friend. Captain America is more popular than he ever was and you have a fresh #1 comic to sell. What you do? Getting Ed Brubaker and Steve Epting for another stint in the book? Get Nick Spencer to tell this same exact story with more class? No. You get the reveal that Captain America was a Hydra agent in the first issue of your comic. After that and seeing how much of a reaction the thing got, you reveal that it was all comic book non-sense twist for the non-initiated even before the book hit the stands. This was an epic failure of a relaunch for this book, and there's no way to dance around that. It backfired, hard. Superior Spider-Man was unique and cool, Captain Hydra had the potential to be great but it's kind of ruined because they had to have the twist in the first issue of his relaunched comic. Hail Hydra indeed.

[baronvonblackheart]

Strongly agree. This has been bungled, and the fact that we all know this soap-opera nonsense will be over in a year doesn't mean we have to buy it. Wake me for the next creative team.

[Pat Thomas]

Regardless the obvious outcome that everyone around here had already predicted, it was a beyond stupid twist from Marvel Comics and I can't believe Alonso allowed they going that way.

We all got it as soon as we saw it: it's Superior Spider-Man all over again, this time with cosmic cubes as the culprit. Superior Spider-Man was a silly idea turned epic by Dan Slott, but this Captain America twist had terribly timing written all over:

So you have the biggest blockbuster in the year in the shape of Captain America: Civil War with Captain America standing his ground and convictions to save his friend. Captain America is more popular than he ever was and you have a fresh #1 comic to sell. What you do? Getting Ed Brubaker and Steve Epting for another stint in the book? Get Nick Spencer to tell this same exact story with more class? No. You get the reveal that Captain America was a Hydra agent in the first issue of your comic. After that and seeing how much of a reaction the thing got, you reveal that it was all comic book non-sense twist for the non-initiated even before the book hit the stands. This was an epic failure of a relaunch for this book, and there's no way to dance around that. It backfired, hard. Superior Spider-Man was unique and cool, Captain Hydra had the potential to be great but it's kind of ruined because they had to have the twist in the first issue of his relaunched comic. Hail Hydra indeed.

When did you expect an explanation? It made no sense without something changing the past, so they had to show why the character change was so drastic.
I have a feeling that no matter what the explanation was and how it was handled, the same people would still have a problem. No wonder Remender left Marvel
when he was one of their main guys. A person would have to be a glutton for punishment to write for Marvel or DC and put up with a fanbase that can't be
pleased. In a choice between probably making more money without the BS, or writing iconic characters while being constantly criticized and attacked, I think
it would be an easy one for me. Just wait until the day that none of the most talented writers work for either company for this reason.

[theoneandonly]

Wait...so Cap's heel turn has an explanation? Steve Rogers hasn't actually been evil this entire time? But the internet assured me that the sky itself was on fire and that he was ruined forever and stuff 'n other things. I'm so confused now.



Honestly, I think it'd be a little silly for a mortal man to be immune to cosmic-level entities.

But this is comics where everything is relative I mean there was one story where someone tried using the cube to just erase Captain America but it was leading to the erasure of America itself as he is so intricately connected to the motherland and then there's the instance in Secret Wars where Beyonder Doom tried to keep killing him but he kept on coming although I think it was due to a assist by beyonder possessed klaw. He has also taken on the adaptoid when it had duplicated kubiks power and played him into defeating itself and killed a skrull who had internalized the cubes power and then opposed Korvac when he absorbed the power. So it shows his indomitable will even if facing cosmic entities or artifacts but of course it does not make him immune. If the cube altered his past then he will be pretty much screwed up however the article implied it rather implanted hin with false memories and my point is that he should be able to overcome those and be able to remember the truth as it is at the very core of his being but then that's just my opinion. After all batman has been able to resist and escape the omega sanction although he had to die for the radiation to leave his body. Even with his memory hazy and no clue as to his condition he was able to make a plan with aid of course and foil darkseids plan to make him a carrier doomsday weapon.

[Majin_O.A.W.]

The use of the cosmic cube makes sense. I'm thinking the altering maybe came during the Mark Waid run way back when. I say that because, that's when Cap cut off skulls arm as depicted in one of the earlier panels. If not then it happened in Standoff.

Anyhow, this is respectful and a good dose of revenge for the Red Skull. I'm fine with this plot point, as opposed to thinking Steve was a traitor the whole time. This works for me.

[cyberhubbs]

Regardless the obvious outcome that everyone around here had already predicted, it was a beyond stupid twist from Marvel Comics and I can't believe Alonso allowed they going that way.

We all got it as soon as we saw it: it's Superior Spider-Man all over again, this time with cosmic cubes as the culprit. Superior Spider-Man was a silly idea turned epic by Dan Slott, but this Captain America twist had terribly timing written all over:

So you have the biggest blockbuster in the year in the shape of Captain America: Civil War with Captain America standing his ground and convictions to save his friend. Captain America is more popular than he ever was and you have a fresh #1 comic to sell. What you do? Getting Ed Brubaker and Steve Epting for another stint in the book? Get Nick Spencer to tell this same exact story with more class? No. You get the reveal that Captain America was a Hydra agent in the first issue of your comic. After that and seeing how much of a reaction the thing got, you reveal that it was all comic book non-sense twist for the non-initiated even before the book hit the stands. This was an epic failure of a relaunch for this book, and there's no way to dance around that. It backfired, hard. Superior Spider-Man was unique and cool, Captain Hydra had the potential to be great but it's kind of ruined because they had to have the twist in the first issue of his relaunched comic. Hail Hydra indeed.

And in a twist, it falls to Winter Soldier to save his old buddy and pal in the comics. Maybe alongside Sam. Because Steve would do and has done the same for them.

[cyberhubbs]

Strongly agree. This has been bungled, and the fact that we all know this soap-opera nonsense will be over in a year doesn't mean we have to buy it. Wake me for the next creative team.

We may as well literally never go to the movies or buy another comic book again since we know that more often than not the hero will win and everyone lives happily ever after.

[cyberhubbs]

Anyone who's been following Marvel comics wouldn't be surprised by this, especially if they've followed Cap in the past few months. There's no way Cap would have been evil unless he was altered. Even a casual fan could have guessed that the cosmic cube was involved. That's why I found the outrage with last issue's reveal so annoying. It was all coming from non-fans who just wanted to be angry at Marvel for something.

There were quite a few comic fans involved. Let's not act like our community was guilt-free in all of the outrage.

[ijacksparrow]

When did you expect an explanation? It made no sense without something changing the past, so they had to show why the character change was so drastic.
I have a feeling that no matter what the explanation was and how it was handled, the same people would still have a problem. No wonder Remender left Marvel
when he was one of their main guys. A person would have to be a glutton for punishment to write for Marvel or DC and put up with a fanbase that can't be
pleased. In a choice between probably making more money without the BS, or writing iconic characters while being constantly criticized and attacked, I think
it would be an easy one for me. Just wait until the day that none of the most talented writers work for either company for this reason.

I expected Marvel Comics to take the opportunity of Captain America's surge of popularity that was at an all time high and seize it, not put a damper on it and nerf their own character's ascension to stardom. I expected more than a stupid last page comic twist gimmick for the character that gave their company the biggest and most acclaimed blockbuster of the year. I expected them to tell brand new stories that can be great without using gimmick crutches that are just replicating what Dan Slott did masterfully and with a great amount of plan and preparation for Spider-Man. Bad publicity is good publicity seems to be Marvel Comics motto lately, but when you're dealing with a brand - and don't be fooled, Captain America is now a fully fleshed out brand thanks to the work of Marvel Studios and the Russo Brothers, heavily inspired on what Ed Brubaker and Steve Epting did with the character - then bad publicity is just bad publicity. Captain America: Civil War's box office suffered an unusual decline for a film that is arguably Marvel's most critically and pubilically acclaimed yet, and while some would shrug it off saying that's just superhero fatigue after having Deadpool, Batman v Superman and right afterwards X-Men: Apocalypse, I'd like to suggest that just like Marvel loves to say, "everything's connected".

I do love Marvel's avant-garde approach to storytelling. It's the reason I've fallen in love with their comics to begin with. I'm not saying that Nick Spencer can't become as much of an acclaimed writer as the likes of Ed Brubaker, Jonathan Hickman and the one you've mentioned, Rick Remender. In fact, I do get where he's going with this story and I even enjoy the metaphors and the whole meta thing with what is going on with the United States and the whole world's far right ascension lately. I understand where he's going and I'm not criticizing his story per se, but Marvel Comics editorial line failing to properly plan this. Do you know why Superior Spider-Man is memorable and Superior Iron Man was a fluke leeching on a popular storyline? Lack of preparation. Superior Spider-Man's seeds were carefully and properly planned by Dan Slott and his editorial team, and the same happened with literally every big storyline that Dan has been working on in the Amazing Spider-Man books. It was seeded, planned and executed. Beautifully to the point most of his storylines now enrich Spider-Man's mythos as a character. The Winter Soldier's saga from Brubaker and Epting took their time telling that storyline. It didn't have the Bucky's reveal in the first book, it did have a great cliffhanger and a mystery with someone assassinating Red Skull in issue two, but you could tell that the story wasn't rushed and properly planned. Marvel Comics is now just a branch of what Marvel as a whole is now today, and what I'm saying is that I'd like to see more proper synergy between what is working brilliantly well right now, which is Marvel Studios, and Marvel Comics.

Having the Captain America's turn in the last page of the first issue of your relaunched comic, even with the obvious (for us) prep time in Avengers: Stand Off was just poorly planned and poorly timed. And again, that's not Nick Spencer's fault. I get what he's trying to do here and there're even some analogies with Brubaker's run that I think he'll be addressing down the run, I don't think it's coincidence that the Winter Soldier is part of the same team that Kubik is. It was even previously mentioned on the thread here, I think that's interesting. What bothers me is that while DC Rebirth seems almost like an "I'm sorry, we screwed up" from DC Comics after the fiasco that was Batman v Superman, what Marvel Comics does after the insane success of Captain America, when he's most popular than ever, it's the "all publicity is good publicity" thing, when I don't think Marvel Comics editorial has truly a real grasp at how big Marvel is right now. Getting an acclaimed writer to write what is an AMAZING story that celebrates the character and what he is all about in the shape of Ta-Nehisi Coates Black Panther? EXCELLENT move, with the sales clearly showing up and paying off. Resorting to a cheap last page gimmick to sell a Captain America relaunch with Steve Rogers? Eh, nope. And I blame Marvel Comics editorial for not realizing that. That story could be told, the same story that Nick Spencer wants to tell could be done, with more preparation and execution, with subtle hints along the way, and that's where the editorial job should be done, helping the writer to tell his story the best way possible.

The fact that Alonso needed to "exclusively reveal" to comicbook.com the whole plot of what was going on one day before the comic hits the stands clearly shows that this backfired. And I wish it didn't, I wish Marvel Comics would work more closely to Marvel Studios and the whole "synergy" thing that was promised to us back in the Heroic Age was a real thing. I'm not saying that the comics should be slavish of the films, they obviously need to pave the way to what is to come, but some clever preparation and execution wouldn't hurt.

And one last thing: don't be fooled thinking that Rick Remender left because Marvel fans were mean to him. They were, and unfairly, I agree with you on that. But he left because there's more money for writers like him, Hickman and the Fractions to make as independents with Image books and what not. Which isn't bad for aspiring comic book writers, but I do wish that at the very least Remender and Hickman were still around, with Dan Slott and Jason Aaron getting a more prominent role than let's say Bendis, which is around Marvel Comics for almost twenty years now. The way I see it, Marvel Comics lost Tom King for DC Comics (easily one of the best writers of mainstream comics) and fail to realize that the very reason that Guardians of the Galaxy became a thing was because of Dan Abnett and Andy Lanning, not really Bendis. Since I've got the Marvel Unlimited app, I've got to read a lot of comics that I wouldn't usually read, and do you know what's my favorite book since Secret Wars other than Amazing Spider-Man? Dan Abnett's Hercules. Do you know what's my favorite DC Rebirth title right now? Dan Abnett's Titans. It boggles my mind WHY either Marvel or DC didn't get this guy an exclusive yet, because what he's doing with Hercules from what I've read so far is as good as Fraction's Hawkeye, and yet, we don't get this properly marketed and promoted. We go from event to event, with Marvel promoting Bendis books to yet more Bendis books, and great voices like Dan Abnett get lost in the shuffle. Marvel Comics to me seems to suffer from a case of having some "favorites" and darlings as their trusted workers, but fails to acknowledge some real talent in the industry, even when they are actually employed by them. Dennis Hopeless work with Spider-Woman pre Secret Wars was amazing too, both her with her classic and new costume (hell even with Greg Land's art it was awesome, what is a miracle) and I just wish Marvel Comics would get to properly market good storytelling over gimmicks.

[Rene Narciso]

Wow, really? So Captain America might not really have been an evil Hydra agent all along? Next you will tell me that Superman hasn't remained dead after The Death of Superman...

With that out of the way, I have to point out that a lot of the outrage in the Internet wasn't that lots of people thought this was for real (though some did), but that people are tired of publicity stunt writing with faux-shocking twists stretched out over months and months of decompressed sagas. In the old days they'd resolve a brainwashing story like this in 2 or 3 months, tops. Now we'll have to suffer through 17 issues of it.

[Michael Watkins]

How he would hide that from anybody, especially his girlfriend Sharon, is beyond me.

who says that Sharon isn't Hydra?