Samuel L. Jackson & George Lucas Agree: "Star Wars'" Mace Windu Lives

[Ambaryerno]

I don't necessarily think that the Jedi had become to rigid. I mean, many of the Jedi teachings, doctrines and such are very correct, cool and serene while the Sith are just as crazy and dark as Al Qaeda and ISIS more or less. I think what the main problem with the Jedi is they were so concerned with tradition and the fear of the Dark Side that it became an obsession that blinded them sort of like how the Ancient Jews became so hateful of Rome and obsessed with their heritage that they ignored Jesus teachings to live in harmony with Rome, Samaritans and pagans which thus rendered them nearly obsolete and left them with a turmoil in the Israeli region that still haunts the Middle East today. I also agree with you that Mace Windu is a pretty freaking bad boy swordsman that ranks right up their with Master Qui Gon Jinn, Rahm Kota, Shaak Ti, Galen Malek and Obi Wan Kenobi.

The problem with the Jedi in the Prequels is that they turned Yoda's "Anger, fear, aggression, the Dark Side of the Force are they" into ironclad dogma. They forgot that anger is actually HEALTHY. People NEED to get angry, and that anger in of itself isn't a bad thing. It's only when you allow yourself to be consumed by it that it becomes a problem. Thus why Vader fell and Luke didn't. Vader's anger was selfish, and he allowed it to overwhelm him. Luke's anger was righteous, and he kept it under control.

Also, the whole "Jedi do not know love" thing. Beyond being a stupid plot contrivance with absolutely NO precedent established in the Original Trilogy (seriously, everyone and their mother was making a big deal of how strong the Force is in Luke's family. Yet according to the Prequels, that should never have even been a thing. Hell, Yoda basically even TOLD him to go out and have lots of little Jedi babies to train because the Force is strong in his family), it's yet ANOTHER example of the Jedi screwing themselves by denying everything that makes people tick.

The Jedi screwed themselves because their philosophy divorced themselves from everything that made them sentient beings, denied their members healthy outlets for emotional support, and expected everyone to submit without question. Half the friggen' plot of Episode III DOESN'T HAPPEN if Anakin didn't have to hide his marriage because of that "Jedi can't have families" stupidity and can actually TALK to someone about what's troubling him. The closest he got was Yoda dismissing him with basically what amounts to, "Hey, **** happens, just let it go."

[simbob4000]

Ponda Baba in a New Hope could easily be explained away as they hadn't thought of it yet, Darth Maul could have been a continuity error put in for style, but there's plenty of examples of lightsaber wounds clearly cauterizing said wounds

It's all done for style. But given there was blood originally, it seems pretty funny to call the later use of blood a continuity error. That first gif is basically using the glowing like it is blood, because you could never get away with that shot on human looking characters in a movie rated PG. So they've got blood with they can get away with it, and they don't when they can't.

[Hiromi]

It's dramatically different from other examples used throughout the series including later examples, hell apparently it's not even present in subsequent versions of the same scene, then yeah a continuity error or plot hole is pretty accurate. Never mind that you'd get a whole **** load more than a quick blood spray from bisecting someone via normal means or from taking a limb off for that matter

But hey if you want to argue that bleeding is the norm despite it only being present in 2 scenes over the course of seven movies and numerous lightsaber wounds feel free

We see lightsabers instantly melt various space metals, human flesh starts to burn at 111 degrees, branding irons usually operate at 600ish degrees, the melting point of iron is 2750 Degrees, so yeah lightsabers should instantly cauterize flesh, and SFX such as glowing flesh wounds with at the absolute best a tiny fraction of the bleeding that should be present support that regardless if the purposes for it is to avoid higher ratings

[simbob4000]

It's dramatically different from other examples used throughout the series including later examples, hell apparently it's not even present in subsequent versions of the same scene, then yeah a continuity error or plot hole is pretty accurate. Never mind that you'd get a whole **** load more than a quick blood spray from bisecting someone via normal means or from taking a limb off for that matter

But hey if you want to argue that bleeding is the norm despite it only being present in 2 scenes over the course of seven movies and numerous lightsaber wounds feel free

We see lightsabers instantly melt various space metals, human flesh starts to burn at 111 degrees, branding irons usually operate at 600ish degrees, the melting point of iron is 2750 Degrees, so yeah lightsabers should instantly cauterize flesh, and SFX such as glowing flesh wounds with at the absolute best a tiny fraction of the bleeding that should be present support that regardless if the purposes for it is to avoid higher ratings

It can not be a continuity error when it's introduction into continuity is blood. It's also not even kind of a plot hole...is everyone here getting their understanding of what plot holes are from TV Tropes? Someone thought the blood was removed, they were wrong, so I'm not sure where this apparently thing is coming from.

They're mostly PG movies. They do blood when they can, they do other things went they can't or when they want nothing there. It's not the real world, they're movies, what you seem to be having a problem with are stylistic choices being made.

[ZionAkeda]

The problem with the Jedi in the Prequels is that they turned Yoda's "Anger, fear, aggression, the Dark Side of the Force are they" into ironclad dogma. They forgot that anger is actually HEALTHY. People NEED to get angry, and that anger in of itself isn't a bad thing. It's only when you allow yourself to be consumed by it that it becomes a problem. Thus why Vader fell and Luke didn't. Vader's anger was selfish, and he allowed it to overwhelm him. Luke's anger was righteous, and he kept it under control.

Also, the whole "Jedi do not know love" thing. Beyond being a stupid plot contrivance with absolutely NO precedent established in the Original Trilogy (seriously, everyone and their mother was making a big deal of how strong the Force is in Luke's family. Yet according to the Prequels, that should never have even been a thing. Hell, Yoda basically even TOLD him to go out and have lots of little Jedi babies to train because the Force is strong in his family), it's yet ANOTHER example of the Jedi screwing themselves by denying everything that makes people tick.

The Jedi screwed themselves because their philosophy divorced themselves from everything that made them sentient beings, denied their members healthy outlets for emotional support, and expected everyone to submit without question. Half the friggen' plot of Episode III DOESN'T HAPPEN if Anakin didn't have to hide his marriage because of that "Jedi can't have families" stupidity and can actually TALK to someone about what's troubling him. The closest he got was Yoda dismissing him with basically what amounts to, "Hey, **** happens, just let it go."

Amen to everything you wrote. I enjoyed reading your post. Great post. Great post man!

[Ambaryerno]

Amen to everything you wrote. I enjoyed reading your post. Great post. Great post man!

There was a time I was deeply invested in Star Wars. Read as many of the books as I could, was one of the tech guys (not on the level of Saxton or Rob Brown, but I managed a pretty exhaustive examination on the X-wing). But between the Prequels and New Jedi Order everything turned into such a mess. I didn't even bother with any of the post-NJO books (thank god for that. NONE of it made any narrative sense. How the frell does DAALA become president of the Republic?).

Lucas should have let Zahn write the Prequel Trilogy. We barely got a glimpse of what he thought the Clone Wars were, and even those handful of paragraphs were FAR more intriguing than what we actually got.

[FishyZombie]

i mean, Luke survived the same exact thing that supposedly killed mace, minus the lightning, so why not?

[ROM Spaceknight]

Huge SW fan here, and I did like the prequels. I thought Mace Windu was an interesting character, and agree he could have lived - even after he fell through the window on Coruscant in Episode III.

Two interesting points about SLJ's Mace Windu character in the Prequels; I think both of these are true:

1) SLJ was a HUGE SW fan, and had always wanted to be in a SW film. When he found out that Lucas was working on the prequels, he fought hard to be in the films - thereby leading to the Mace Windu character.

2) SLJ's favorite color is purple - so, it was his idea to have MW have a purple lightsaber (as seen in Episodes II & III) - this was not something Lucas thought of. I thought the cool purple lightsaber was unusual & interesting.

Also, note the purple suit that SLJ's character wore in the thriller Unbreakable (2000).

[ChrisIII]

I think the celibate thing was sort of Lucas trying to portray the Jedi sort of as "warrior monks". Some monastic lifestyles often view celibacy/detachment as a virtue. I think mainly, it was created by Lucas and Hales for AOTC-some of the TPM tie-in comics actually portray Ki-Adi-Mundi (The conehead guy on the council, and one of the main council Jedi with speaking roles in the films) portrays him as not only married with a family, but a polygamist as well!


As for Zahn writing the films-being a novelist doesn't always translate to screenwriting that easily. Lucas and the production team did include a few nods to Zahn in the films here and there, mainly with system names or little FX cameos (Coruscant, naturally, but also the Rishi Maze. A ship very similar to Talon Kaarde's as seen in the comic and RPG adaptations for Heir To The Empire also appears on Naboo).


Also I think part of the problem with Mace is his thoughts about Anakin seem to be a bit inconsistent. In TPM, like Yoda, he is very wary of Anakin. Yet in AOTC he seems fairly supportive of Anakin, and this is further detailed in the film's deleted material, where he continually reassures Obi-Wan, who is skeptical. Some of the Clone Wars stuff from around the time has him as sort of a true believer in Anakin! In ROTS he's flipped again, distrusting Anakin even more so than before-and Obi-Wan is being the true believer/close friend of Anakin (a bond which is sort of explained in Clone Wars, and of course heavily implied by the original trilogy, but it's a bit jarring to see Obi-Wan go from the scolding father figure in AOTC to the best buddy in ROTS.)

[Ambaryerno]

2) SLJ's favorite color is purple - so, it was his idea to have MW have a purple lightsaber (as seen in Episodes II & III) - this was not something Lucas thought of. I thought the cool purple lightsaber was unusual & interesting.

This has been known since BEFORE AotC came out. However lightsaber colors other than green, blue, and red were a thing in the old Expanded Universe LONG before Jackson decided to invoke his star power privilege.

I think the celibate thing was sort of Lucas trying to portray the Jedi sort of as "warrior monks". Some monastic lifestyles often view celibacy/detachment as a virtue. I think mainly, it was created by Lucas and Hales for AOTC-some of the TPM tie-in comics actually portray Ki-Adi-Mundi (The conehead guy on the council, and one of the main council Jedi with speaking roles in the films) portrays him as not only married with a family, but a polygamist as well!

It was a plot device, pure and simple. If they didn't toss in Jedi celibacy (which Lucas has already gone back on and said they can screw around as much as they want. Just god forbid they LOVE the person they're screwing) Prequel Anakin doesn't fall to the Dark Side. The only time in the ENTIRE DAMN TRILOGY we see him consumed by anger is when he has his tantrum after his mom dies. He ultimately falls because "Oh noes! Teh Jedi gonna kill the obvious evil guy I JUST EXPOSED TO THEM who claims to be teh only guy who can save my secret wife I wasn't allowed to marry but did anyway!" Anakin was such an easily manipulated putz in the Prequels that even PALPATINE doesn't come across looking all that good for pulling it off.

[ROM Spaceknight]

I think the celibate thing was sort of Lucas trying to portray the Jedi sort of as "warrior monks". Some monastic lifestyles often view celibacy/detachment as a virtue. I think mainly, it was created by Lucas and Hales for AOTC-some of the TPM tie-in comics actually portray Ki-Adi-Mundi (The conehead guy on the council, and one of the main council Jedi with speaking roles in the films) portrays him as not only married with a family, but a polygamist as well!

Yeah, I thought the whole "Jedi being celibate" was probably in Lucas' thoughts back in the OT; Luke's black outfit in ROTJ does look kind of what a priest would wear.

If you look at the PT, even though Anakin knew he wasn't supposed to be married - he still hooked up with Padme at the end of AOTC. And by Episode III, obviously Obi-wan knew about the marriage, but looked the other way because the Jedi needed Anakin - since he was such a good fighter.

I agree about Ki-Adi Mundi - in one of the SW Comic series (that was released even before TPM came out in May '99) he was portrayed as having several wives.

[Kirby101]

Why can't Mace be alive. He could show up in the Rogue or Solo films.

People largely didn't have a problem with Darth Maul coming back in the animated series.

Also, Deckard is a Replicant.

[Ambaryerno]

Yeah, I thought the whole "Jedi being celibate" was probably in Lucas' thoughts back in the OT; Luke's black outfit in ROTJ does look kind of what a priest would wear.

There was NEVER an insinuation in the Original Trilogy that Jedi were supposed to be celibate. In fact there's plenty of dialogue ("The Force runs strong in your family...") that outright suggests the OPPOSITE.

[Agent Z]

The problem with the Jedi in the Prequels is that they turned Yoda's "Anger, fear, aggression, the Dark Side of the Force are they" into ironclad dogma. They forgot that anger is actually HEALTHY. People NEED to get angry, and that anger in of itself isn't a bad thing. It's only when you allow yourself to be consumed by it that it becomes a problem. Thus why Vader fell and Luke didn't. Vader's anger was selfish, and he allowed it to overwhelm him. Luke's anger was righteous, and he kept it under control.

Also, the whole "Jedi do not know love" thing. Beyond being a stupid plot contrivance with absolutely NO precedent established in the Original Trilogy (seriously, everyone and their mother was making a big deal of how strong the Force is in Luke's family. Yet according to the Prequels, that should never hav
e even been a thing. Hell, Yoda basically even TOLD him to go out and have lots of little Jedi babies to train because the Force is strong in his family), it's yet ANOTHER example of the Jedi screwing themselves by denying everything that makes people tick.

The Jedi screwed themselves because their philosophy divorced themselves from everything that made them sentient beings, denied their members healthy outlets for emotional support, and expected everyone to submit without question. Half the friggen' plot of Episode III DOESN'T HAPPEN if Anakin didn't have to hide his marriage because of that "Jedi can't have families" stupidity and can actually TALK to someone about what's troubling him. The closest he got was Yoda dismissing him with basically what amounts to, "Hey, **** happens, just let it go."

Yoda's different attitude towards children in the OT could be attributed to him not wanting to repeat the mistakes of the past.

the expanded universe material such as the Clone Wars to show also delves more into why Anakin became more mistrustful of the Jedi i.e their treatment of Ahsoka.

[Agent Z]

There was NEVER an insinuation in the Original Trilogy that Jedi were supposed to be celibate. In fact there's plenty of dialogue ("The Force runs strong in your family...") that outright suggests the OPPOSITE.

How does "the Force runs strong in your family@ suggest Jedi were not celibate. All it suggests is that one particular Jedi broke that rule.