Villain redesign

[adrikito]

I don´t know I can´t see hope for minor villains...

Cluemaster was called for batman one Riddler of 3rd class.. That is really sad, compare someone with him..

[brer rabbit]

You know the Scarecrow goes though a lot of visual redesigns.

[scary harpy]

Series:Batman
Issue Number:6
First Published:September 1941

"The Clock Maker"
After a stockholders’ meeting of a clock company, Hobbs Clock Co., Bruce Wayne and a couple of other shareholders – Decker, Atkins and Keating – travel to Brock’s Clock Shop with an eye to purchase antique clocks. Mr. Brock, an eccentric loses his temper as the wealthy men speak of “killing time” and having “plenty of time.” Brock rushes Wayne, Atkins and Keating out of his shop threatening murder for their wasting of precious time.
…
With word of Batman on the case, Brock begins constructing clocks to do his bidding. The first clock kills Keating two nights later as it strikes 13 and dispenses a poisonous gas. The next night a similar fate befalls Decker as the clock strikes 13 and a clock shoots a poisonous dart at him. Bruce Wayne is the next target and just before the clock can strike 13 he tosses it out of the window where it explodes.

Elias Brock likes to think he's "Father Time" and has a real Jigsaw mindset: he builds killer clocks to punish those who "waste time".

I would update him with the name Grandfather Time but keep the serial-killing clock theme.

[godisawesome]

The Riddler

I love Paul Dini's Detective Riddler, and I honestly want to see if I could combine that with his usual villainy and play up his status as the Batman villain who may be the smartest (or at least wishes he were.)

So, in addition to pulling off the occasional heist with a riddle alerting people to his upcoming crime, we reorganize most of his crimes along the lines of information brokering, blackmail, and what basically amounts to trolling people who are powerful and rich and who he wants to prove his superiority over. So, instead of broadcasting his riddles, he plants them in the newspaper, mail, or otherwise, makes sure his victims become aware that someone knows their secret, and then challenges them to riddles which have higher and higher penalties if they fail to answer them.

He plays and manipulates people for fun, drives them insane by making them do countless riddles and humiliating and exposing them when they inevitably fail, and acts as a consulting criminal to people who need a mastermind... But he also *will* leave some riddles behind because he doesn't like freeloaders, even those who pay. His motive for committing crimes goes towards whatever will keep him interested. Sometimes a museum will claim its security system is impenetrable, so he'll challenge Catwoman to see who can get it first. Sometimes a 1%er will seem to get away with a crime, and Riddler will torment them for fun. Sometimes he just gets bored and does some robbery.

But of all the big name rogues, he may very well be the closest to true rationality and sanity. He's not some psycho killing people with traps for some sadistic pleasure, and he's not so devoid of personality he can't pass himself off as normal. I wouldn't even make him egregiously narcissistic or sociopathic; whatever mental health issues he has are ones he actually has some strong control over, since what really pushes him to do what he does is simple human pride...

...Because he used to be Harvey Bullock's partner and got really, really damn irritated with all the corruption in the GCPD, not because he minded criminals getting away with crimes but because they did such a poor job hiding it. He and Bullock were paired up to get them both out of the way; Bullock wasn't squeaky clean by any means, but would not allow murder, trafficking, or violent crime to pass by, and Ed Nashton didn't like being insulted by poor criminal planning. So he and Bullock solved the few cases GCPD let them solve, and Bullock is one of the very few officers Riddler now trusts to not screw up delivering his riddles without error, while Bullock really hates Nygma's guts.

He ditches the leotard and cheesy suit for much more of a slick, stylish design. He wears a perfectly tailored business suit that's mostly in black, with only a few green highlights like his vest, and with his question mark symbol delivered by a stylized stick pin, cuff links, green monogrammed handkerchief, and buckle on his fedora. This goes well with Query and Echoes slick look.

[scary harpy]

Batman Vol 1 #15
February, 1943

"The Loneliest Men In the World"

For this Christmas, Batman and Robin decide to play Santa to "the loneliest men in the world": those who have no friends at that festive time of the year. But criminal Dirk Dagner decides to use this plan for his own financial advantage!
As the dynamic duo travel across Gotham, spreading the joy of the season, Dirk and his gang follow them with the intention of ruining their plans. After two failed attempts, Dirk and his comrades are finally captured and the dynamic duo spend Christmas Eve with some of the best people in Gotham.

I would rename Dirk Dagner to Dirk Danger. He would become the Grinch who stole Christmas...every Christmas.

Dirk Danger would be Batman's Xmas themed villain.

[godisawesome]

Based off the Batvillainess thread's suggestion for one character and adding two more...

Nocturna

You know how Paul Dini and Bruce Timm had this idea for Nocturna as a Vampire? I'd keep that, but she's not your regular vampire; she's more like the orginal literary version of Dracula, albeit as a mellow and largely sedate villainess looking to keep her immortal time occupied instead of an ambitious would-be Evil Overlord. Like Dracula in the book, she wasn't given her powers by a bite to the neck, but instead studied at the Scholomance, the dark school of sorcery in the Eastern European mountains. She can teleport and disappear into shadows, has some moderate hypnotic abilities, and can heal pretty much any wound by midnight, and has multiple lifetimes of debauched criminality behind her, with all the cunning, cleverness, and vice that presupposes. She's lived long enough to have dated and dumped Ra's Al Ghul (he used her to learn some of her knowledge, so she forced him to use a Lazarus Pit after burying him alive.) She doesn't even need to kill many people to stay young, since she just slowly drains some victims over decades after hypnotizing them, and usually chooses people she thinks the world could do without (usually other criminals.)

Her association with Gotham started through one of the very few younger vampires she sired... The Mad Monk, Niccolai Tepes. He was a considerably more ambitious and hungry, and was one of Batman's earliest otherworldly opponents. Batman defeated him, surprising Nocturnal when she found out, which is why she tracked down The Mad Monk's "child," Dala, a precocious young lady who's turning into a vampire slowly. Dala told her what happened to the Monk and how Batman took him down (I'd make it a bit ambiguous as to how exactly the Monk died.)

So, Nocturna arrives in Gotham with Dala in tow, and the two eventually encounter Batman. Nocturna, in her dilettante disguise as Natalie Knight, hobnobs with the rich while Dala starts tormenting some Bat-family members for fun (Damian or Tim dealing with a literal vampire can be fun, and perhaps Dala is combined with Darla Aquista, the Warlock's Daughter). Nocturna doesn't go out of her way to antagonize Batman, but she has fun helping some criminals and hurting others, and remains an annoying side project for Batman.

[scary harpy]

Batman: "The Robber Baron"
Detective Comics Vol 1 #75
May, 1943
Synopsis for Batman: "The Robber Baron"
An arrogant lordling of the underworld called the Robber Baron stages a series of spectacular robberies, of seemingly inaccessible places, by firing a grappling hook with a special cable attached to it, at his objectives. The Baron and his henchmen would ride along the cable, high above the city streets, reaching their destinations and stealing valuables, with the perfect getaway.
Batman and Robin manage to find the Baron's secret hideout, in a brass factory, and after a brief struggle and a brisk chase, Robin plunges into the river, and Batman is shot and captured by the crooks. Robin recovers in time to rescue Batman, and together they capture the Baron and his gang, with help from Alfred. In the end all the criminals are delivered to Commissioner Gordon at the GCPD Headquarters.
160674-18058-112105-1-detective-comics.jpg

I think the Robber Baron should return...with a update, of course. I like the look: tuxedo, top hat, cape, monocle and etcetera. I would prefer a female Robber Baron. Since Selina has become less a villainess, Robber Baron could become the premier burglar in Gotham.

[godisawesome]

How about a Nightwing villain?

Shrike

I always liked Shrike's design and intial backstory. But, outisde of his debut arc, he never really got to make good on the apparent "Anti-Nightwing" premise he was built around. Yeah, he was a skilled and dangerous member of the League of Assassins, but in only a few years, he became and also-ran member of that group.

So...

Let's rebuild him into a more dangerous threat for Dick, and a more dangerous member of the LOA as a whole. And let's maybe redefine him even more as an anti-Dick Grayson.

Boone, who still encountered a young undercover Dick Grayson as a child, blames Dick for his master's (the original Shrike's) death. However, shortly after joining the LOA, instead of being trained to just be an exceptional killer, he was taken under the wing of the White Ghost, who saw a vindictive streak in the boy and a natural talent for weaponry. And while Dick has become a frequent unifying force and leader of several skilled superhero teams, Shrike has become the LOA's counterpart to an Internal Affairs/Military Police/State Sec officer; if an Assassin fails at his mission, or goes off script, or is plotting to betray a higher ranking member, Shrike is dispatched to ascertain the facts and then carry out the orders for the LOA or Ra's Al Ghul himself.

As a result, Boone only rarely encounters heroes or police officers unless they're particularly competent and dangerous, and makes a habit of ending cases digging into the LOA's business by killing all loose ends, with a preference for using whatever weapon the assassin he's targeting uses.

Shrike is basically the world's best melee weapons user, on a level comparable to but still a bit below Shiva. He still dangerous at hand to hand fighting, but below Nkghtwing in that arena, while his weapon skills make him a greater threat than he wa sin the old continuity; pretty much any encounter with Shrike should result in a hero either working word to disarm him, or being maimed and stabbed by his swords, knifes, and other bladed weaponry.

[scary harpy]

"The Mirror Man is a criminal scientist who uses mirrors in his crimes, in a fashion similar to the Mirror Master. He often tries to expose Batman's secret identity."

Mirror_Man_BTBATB.jpg
The Mirror Man a.k.a. Floyd Ventris (and Not Mirror Master!)

I would have Floyd explore the magical side of mirrors...especially since his escape from prison. While he would become skilled at mirror magic, he is also older...and wiser.

"By his own admission, Ventris remained inactive and content with obscurity. As he aged he lost the appetite for grandiose capers and focused on small, modest heists. Based on his intimate knowledge of the bulky two-way electronic mirror used in his original crimes, Mirror Man was able to replicate and refine the technology. He was left for dead by another minor villain, Tony Finch, and was last reported in critical condition at Gotham General Hospital. (H.E.R.O. #9, December 2003)"

I would have him take on an apprentice...The Mirror Mage. I don't know if Floyd recovered from his critical injuries or not...but the Mirror Mage would be his legacy.

[scary harpy]

In other news...

In this era, I think we can agree a villain needs more than a shtick, a few gadgets and a Halloween costume if s/he is going to be a credible and/or interesting threat to the Bats (or any other hero). Established villains are grandfathered in, of course.

Sometimes I wish Doctor Tzin-Tzin would open a dojo and train other villains in the arts of 'Oriental mind-control'...out of spite for all his loses against heroes. This would be his revenge on the world and a rational explanation for why villains suddenly developed some mental powers.

The more I think about this, the more I like the idea. Tzin-Tzin's motive is indirect vengeance against the world but this changes over time. He discovers that he is surprisingly good at teaching and then realizes he enjoys it too. Eventually, he is training professional henchpersons and other criminals as well as teaching "Oriental Mind-Control".

His dojo would move periodically for security reasons. He would also have other minor villains in his employ e.g. Mirror Mage a.k.a. Floyd Ventris Jr. a.k.a. Lloyd Ventrix.

[godisawesome]

THREAD RESURRECTION!!!

The Cavalier II - Morgan Drake.

A somewhat androgynous but always fashionable (mis)adventurer, Morgan Drake was the daughter of a successful businessman who managed to raise his hellion of a daughter into following in his footsteps, with Morgan building a significant independent fortune by her early twenties. Growing bored of this business life, though, Morgan pursued a passion for fencing, acrobatics, and other pseudo-Batfamily activities… albeit always form a very self-interested place. She also collected memorabilia from the first Cavalier, Pyle, as she was fascinated by him.

Then her dad lost his entire fortune and was humiliated by the Great White Shark.

Morgan, still financially secure herself, was incensed, and decided to confront the Shark personally. Things went badly, and Morgan wound up having to defend herself with a sword… and found she loved it. She loved it even more when she successfully escaped with the Shark’s boat. So she decided to practice some more, fine tune her performance and look, and basically have the most adrenaline junkie “give me a challenge” career she can, not really altruistic or immoral, but more a very fine tuned and classy variation of Roxie Rocket, with a strong sense of “form,” though not honor (she freely admits she’s a thief and occasional killer for fun.)

Morgan Drake is genuinely one of the best sword fighters on the world, and is frequently hinted to be *very* much on the level of the Batfamily, but is obsessed with “good form” for her own pride. She *does* for instance, carry a firearm, but it’s a single shot pistol she only uses when neccessary, and always creatively.

And here’s her “reverse Zorro” design:
949CD3FA-E951-4FEB-A995-A94E39B9C6F4.jpg

[Frontier]

I could see a female Cavalier working...

[godisawesome]

I could see a female Cavalier working...

I liked the idea because:

1) There's some types of women's fashion that could be incorporated into the costume without as much of a "Oh, that's ridiculous" reaction as it would be for a guy, but also...


2) ...I feel like someone should make an early Batman/Catwoman "date" story where the Cavalier is one of the antagonists to inject fun into the proceedings by bringing out both Bruce's love for Swashbucklers *and* the possibility of Selina sharing that, with another female fan making Selina's POV be a little more front and center.

The TellTale Batman games made a brilliant little in-joke with Selina's bookshelf having a copy of The Scarlet Pimpernel, which is just as swashbuckling as any Zorro book... but since it was written from the POV of the female main character being an anti-hero who betrays her love interest and then desperately tries to save him, it fits Selina like a T.

So just picture a story where, say... the female Cavalier challenges Tiger Shark (because pirate) to a criminal competition over swashbuckler themed loot, that ends up dragging in both Catwoman and Batman, with the humor coming from how Bruce is quietly and "reluctantly" enjoying himself whenever Cavalier makes him go swashbuckler, and Selina has to hide the fact she finds that both sweet and kind of hot.

[Frontier]

I liked the idea because:

1) There's some types of women's fashion that could be incorporated into the costume without as much of a "Oh, that's ridiculous" reaction as it would be for a guy, but also...


2) ...I feel like someone should make an early Batman/Catwoman "date" story where the Cavalier is one of the antagonists to inject fun into the proceedings by bringing out both Bruce's love for Swashbucklers *and* the possibility of Selina sharing that, with another female fan making Selina's POV be a little more front and center.

The TellTale Batman games made a brilliant little in-joke with Selina's bookshelf having a copy of The Scarlet Pimpernel, which is just as swashbuckling as any Zorro book... but since it was written from the POV of the female main character being an anti-hero who betrays her love interest and then desperately tries to save him, it fits Selina like a T.

So just picture a story where, say... the female Cavalier challenges Tiger Shark (because pirate) to a criminal competition over swashbuckler themed loot, that ends up dragging in both Catwoman and Batman, with the humor coming from how Bruce is quietly and "reluctantly" enjoying himself whenever Cavalier makes him go swashbuckler, and Selina has to hide the fact she finds that both sweet and kind of hot.

I think a female Cavalier could work, but I like the male Cavalier just fine .

[godisawesome]

I think a female Cavalier could work, but I like the male Cavalier just fine .

Hudson Pyle is awesome; I think he's better overall than Drake, since Pyle was created in the 90's as a character first and a gimmick second. Drake's still mostly just the gimmick; I'm kind of surprised no one tried making Drake a fan of Pyle in some retcon.