Reading Through Slott's Amazing/Superior Run

[Pav]

PART 2

Enough about Ends of the Earth, right? Okay! On to the Lizard/Morbius story!

I LOVED IT. I LOVED IT. I LOVED IT.

First off, Spidey turned so. damn. quickly. on Morbius - just like I expected him to, based on their history. Glad to see Spidey's low tolerance for Morbius-related shenanigans playing out once again for consistency's sake, even if I do feel bad for 'ole Fang Face. (He is one of my favorites, after all.) But forget Morbius: what really shines in this story is Dan's portrayal of the Lizard / Curt Connors!

I swear to you: I've never read a Lizard story that I thought was exceptional. Every single one of them read more or the less the same to me until Shed came along and injected the character with... something! something beyond "Look at me control snakes again!" or whatever. No, this story does something NEW for once! I liked that we got confirmation that being turned into a lizard-creature doesn't automatically turn you into some sort of rage-monster, and that, instead, the Lizard's rage was a manifestation of Curt Connors' mental problems. You can say it rips off the Hulk; I say it utilizes established Marvel psychology!

But the beautiful choice on Dan's part was putting "the Lizard" into the body of Curt Connors (and vice versa by the end of the story). I loved seeing the Lizard dealing with his mammalian brain - understanding irony and love and whatnot. For me, the Lizard has never been more compelling than he is in these issues, struggling with his own desires and identity. And then, to see Curt "healed" mentally but trapped in the body of the Lizard - just perfect. If Dan never does another Lizard story, I think he's left the character in a beautiful position for whoever chooses to pick the character up again.

Then, we get the Alpha origin story, which I found to be just kind of "meh". I mean, I thought the premise of the story was really smart; and I like how we get to see how Dan juxtaposes the contexts in which Peter and Andy receive their powers - the social era, the family life, etc etc etc. But, I think what most bothered me about this storyline is how quickly it ended: Alpha is declared to be this hugely powerful character who must be trained and monitored and whatnot, but three issues later Peter has him depowered. In hindsight, I think usage of Alpha should've been played out as a long-running subplot, much like how the character of Morbius' presence was felt throughout the whole era. One positive of the Alpha story: we see the Jackal is back in action and using the Queen's DNA! I'm glad we got some follow-up on him post- Spider-Island considering the magnitude of the story.

In the Complete Collection, this is where Avenging is included again: this time, we get a strong take on Peter and Aunt May. I don't care for the art, but the characterization of each and of their relationship was great. I especially liked May admonishing Peter for thinking that Ben was the wellspring for their push of education on Peter rather than her, and that Ben was much more interested in trying to get Peter to finally try baseball. Just really nice stuff, I thought.

If the Alpha story was a little underwhelming, the Double Hobgoblin story amped the excitement right back up! I would like to think both fans of Phil and Roderick could be happy with this one: Phil gets to keep the mantle of the Hobgoblin - which I think he pulls off exceptionally well - and Roderick is given a status quo by Dan Slott that makes TOTAL FREAKIN' SENSE for the guy! His obsession with "brand" and "franchises" just felt pitch-perfect for the "only sane goblin ever". Furthermore, I really liked the callbacks to / mirroring of the original Hobgoblin story line: for example, in both stories Peter's spider-sense is affected negatively by the villains. That's the kind of expert touch that shows Dan's talent: if you've never read those old Hobgoblin stories, you wouldn't know about the link but there's nothing in the story that makes you feel like you're missing something; meanwhile, if you HAVE read those stories, you can appreciate the nod that Dan is giving to continuity. This is the kind of thing that makes reading comics so fun!

However, there's one thing I don't care for in the story: Dan makes Phil come off as a total psychopath, and I don't think it's the right move. In their civilian identities, I feel like Phil and Peter would get along just fine! In fact, when Phil isn't in costume, I just can't see him setting of Peter's spider-sense like he did in this story! He'd be way too laid back and casual, y'know? Because Phil isn't evil - he just gives no you-know-whats anymore. So yeah - I'd prefer the "cackling maniac" turned down a few notches on Phil's characterization. But even still, I really like him as the Hobgoblin: loved the comment from him about how much he loves Spidey's horrible jokes - that's the Spidey/Hobby relationship done right, in my opinion!

And then, finally, we get Dying Wish, which I thought was just an awesome end to the epic of the Big Time era and the beginning of the Superior issues. I really enjoyed Dan's choice to have Otto in Peter's head from the get-go: it was fun raising an eyebrow or two at the beginning of the story, wondering why Peter was coming off as kind of a tool, and then *bam* of course! We've started in media res! So yeah - good move on that one, I thought. One other thing that really caught my eye was how quickly Peter started doing "bad" things when he was left no other choice, like breaking out of jail via villain-help, and how he himself was aware of it. I thought it showed that both he, the character, and Dan, the author, did give a quick thought to the sympathetic nature of villains like Otto Octavius without getting too sappy or sentimental about it. Similarly, I thought the motivation for Otto's potential "redemption" was done well, in that his ability to walk in the shoes of Peter Parker felt authentic and believable due to their similarities. I can believe that finally and truly understanding what drove Peter to be Spider-Man might change Otto in a positive way, even if his faults continue to hold him back from being as heroic as he might otherwise be.

And I'll say this: if Dan's main objective in this run was re-establishing Doc Ock as a premier villain, I'd say he nailed it.

And now, I move on to Superior Spider-Man! I've read such a small amount of it, so I'm totally pumped to finally get the whole thing into my brain!

Thanks for reading, and I hope you'll let me know what you thought of these issues!

-Pav, who was caught off-guard by the J.M. DeMatteis story about "Great-Granpa Martin" at the end of the Dying Wish TPB...!!!

[Aruran.]

I remember when I first read Ends of the Earth, it felt more like an Avengers story then it did a Spider-Man story. Mostly because Peter felt obligated to stop the Sinister Six, and I don't think there was a time before when a Spider-villain tried to destroy the world. And the moments with Peter's romantic life felt forced.

Definitely agree with the stories after, personally I thought No Turning Back should've been the 50th anniversary story.

And I thought Wacker and Slott did come out and say that Otto was being re-established as the main villain cause Bendis was using Norman in his Avengers series. It absolutely worked out, as it finally gave Otto the threat to Peter's personal life.

[The Negative Zone]

Haven't read all of Slott's Big Time run. I've read the first trade. Then read 663-676.

I'll say this that I love Phil Urich and The Jackal as villains. The Jackal was crazy and provided meta commentary about Spider-Man in a funny way. I especially like how he referenced Three's Company. Phil's Goblin was a great parallel to Peter Parker, I also can see how a forgotten superhero who's life is pretty average and boring can become a villain. Phil as Hobgoblin also had a healthy sense of wackiness and dark humor. Like how he saves Kingpin but not Montana, "He'll be missed by......everything but the payment." Also.. I found myself rooting for Phil when he fought Randy Robertson during Spider-Island. (But that's not written by Slott.) I'd probably read a series with Phil as Hobgoblin or Goblin Knight.

Reading through Big Time has me realize that the current volumes of Spider-Man seems to be missing his supporting cast, though I mostly want J Jonah Jameson to be back because he was hilarious during Spider-Island. "This will be J Jonah Jameson's finest hour!"

The Vulture story was really meh. It just seemed really weird and out of there for Vulture to recruit a bunch of Goth kids, but I liked Carlie better as Peter's ex than his girlfriend.

I also liked the story where the Sinister Six beat the Intelligencia. Doc Ock outsmarting M.O.D.O.K. was great.

[Pav]

Haven't read all of Slott's Big Time run. I've read the first trade. Then read 663-676.

I'll say this that I love Phil Urich and The Jackal as villains. The Jackal was crazy and provided meta commentary about Spider-Man in a funny way. I especially like how he referenced Three's Company. Phil's Goblin was a great parallel to Peter Parker, I also can see how a forgotten superhero who's life is pretty average and boring can become a villain. Phil as Hobgoblin also had a healthy sense of wackiness and dark humor. Like how he saves Kingpin but not Montana, "He'll be missed by......everything but the payment." Also.. I found myself rooting for Phil when he fought Randy Robertson during Spider-Island. (But that's not written by Slott.) I'd probably read a series with Phil as Hobgoblin or Goblin Knight.

Reading through Big Time has me realize that the current volumes of Spider-Man seems to be missing his supporting cast, though I mostly want J Jonah Jameson to be back because he was hilarious during Spider-Island. "This will be J Jonah Jameson's finest hour!"

The Vulture story was really meh. It just seemed really weird and out of there for Vulture to recruit a bunch of Goth kids, but I liked Carlie better as Peter's ex than his girlfriend.

I also liked the story where the Sinister Six beat the Intelligencia. Doc Ock outsmarting M.O.D.O.K. was great.

TNZ, we agree on so much! I would have no problem reading a comic with Phil in a starring role; although I definitely would prefer he do so as Hobby - you described what I like about him as THE Hobgoblin - to the lame-o, forgettable Gothamite err I mean Goblin Knight.

Y'know, it IS hard coming up with Goblin names. "Green Goblin" has the alliteration; Hobgoblin in an actual thing... and nothing else really sounds as good.

-Pav, who thought "Grey Goblin" was LAAAAAAME...

[The Negative Zone]

TNZ, we agree on so much! I would have no problem reading a comic with Phil in a starring role; although I definitely would prefer he do so as Hobby - you described what I like about him as THE Hobgoblin - to the lame-o, forgettable Gothamite err I mean Goblin Knight.

Y'know, it IS hard coming up with Goblin names. "Green Goblin" has the alliteration; Hobgoblin in an actual thing... and nothing else really sounds as good.

-Pav, who thought "Grey Goblin" was LAAAAAAME...

What about just "Goblin?"

Also wasn't Grey Goblin literally just the Green Goblin.. but all grey? This is how I remember him from the Spider-Man encyclopedia.

[Pav]

What about just "Goblin?"

Yeah, I've thought about that, although in my head I always consider spelling it "Goblyn" - must be that 90s aesthetic living with me.

To be fair, I think the name was already used in the old Alpha Flight series.

I've always had a soft spot for Demogoblin, but I don't think he's got that great of a name either.

-Pav, who has yet to think of a better alternative though...

[Pav]

Okay, friends! This is it! I've read about half of Superior Spider-Man and I'm loving the heck out of it!

In this post, I'm going to cover Superior 1-13 as well as the trade paperback issues that end Avenging and begin Superior Team-Up.

The first stories of the Superior era are a pretty enjoyable introduction, although I think they get better as we go along. The fight against the new, pathetic Sinister Six is fun - especially because it's neat seeing The Living Brain used again - and I enjoy seeing SpOck trying to figure out what to do about MJ. I like what Dan Slott did here in terms of Otto's thinking: despite having felt what Peter feels for MJ, Otto is able to see why getting close to her would be foolish for him - plus, eventually he realizes that he's just not into her like Peter is (and I think that makes sense). In generally, I really like the voice that Dan gives Otto, and his motivations generally feel true to the character. I especially liked, once we get to the Vulture story, how Otto is fueled by the potential danger/harm done to children, due to past abuse at the hands of his father.

What I really like is how Dan makes me like and dislike Otto simultaneously - and both agree and disagree with him. This is the heart of the story, I think: we can both see Otto's perspective, even desire his success at times, and yet we are also reminded constantly that his choices - especially when compared to Peter Parker's - often feel wrong no matter how logical they may seem. His decision to kill Massacre, for example, shows how tricky morality can be: Otto takes a life in the hope that others will be spared; Peter spares a life in the hope that redemption is possible. These choices and their results are not wholly good or bad - they just are. And getting to see the way Otto is similar to and differs from Peter is a joy to read.

As is the budding relationship between SpOck and JJJ hahahahahaha

I WAS bummed that Slott chose to off Dr. Ashley Kafka, though. I wonder if perhaps he was trying to mirror her death at the "beginning" of Superior with the death of Marla Jameson earlier in his run. Regardless, Dr. Kafka didn't get enough screen time to make her death particularly emotional to anyone except for people who read her previously, in my opinion. Sad to see her go.

Oh well.

Anyway, as I've already said, I think the stories get better as they go along, and I love how they build on each other. For example, the relationship between JJJ and SpOck leads to the beat-down of Screwball and Jester, which leads to the intervention of the Avengers, which leads to the mind-battle between SpOck and Ghost Peter. And each of these stories was pretty great, but I will tell you: my favorite thing from these issues is the inclusion of Cardiac! What an inspired choice! I love that he took over and changed F.E.A.S.T. into H.E.A.R.T. and I love the realization that he bestows upon Otto: that he has been responsible for all kinds of unintended consequences, symbolized in the form of the young girl dying in front of him. Just great stuff, in my opinion.

And it gets even greater, because the SpOck v. Spider-Slayer story was just about perfect. When I read this, I felt like the story was inevitable - that Doc Ock and Smythe were created all those years ago, had participating in all those other stories, so that we could eventually get to here: seeing these two mad scientists try to each kill their shared sworn enemy; seeing one succeed and one fail. I appreciate so much the path that Dan led us on to get to this "final" story about the Spider-Slayer.

Here's the one thing that bothered me, though: earlier in the Big Time run, we see that Mac Gargan is stripped of the symbiote while in prison; yet here, Smythe is able to keep his helmet. I'd have liked to see Dan be consistent with the powerlessness of the incarcerated villains. But, this is such a small deal, and I've already No-Prized my way to an explanation.

Also gotta say how much I liked seeing JJJ take action in this story, even if he did look totally silly in that armor and I was reminded of Betty Brant sporting her gun back in the days of FACADE. ANDDDDDD I loved seeing Curt Connors trying to redeem himself in his Lizard body! It may be that, of all the story beats left unresolved so far, I'm most looking forward to finding out what's next for the Lizard! (How often can a Spidey fan say that with a straight face?)

Finally, we get to the first trade of SpOck Avenging/Team-Up stories: they are just as great as the regular series, and I became immediately bummed that I didn't have the whole run here from Yost and co. I enjoyed the differences between Yost's SpOck and Slott's SpOck, like how Yost's is a little more subtle while Slott's is a little more over-the-top; nevertheless, I feel like both really "get" SpOck and that their stories work great in unison. One thing that I preferred from Yost was how, in the initial stories, we don't see Ghost Peter. We're instead just shown Otto struggling with his conscience. This difference actually makes me wonder if there's a "best reading order" where we slowly see the growing problem that is the "leftover conscience of Peter Parker" for Otto.

As far as the actual stories go...

the obligatory X-Men team-up was okay, especially due to the identity of the villain
the Future Foundation team-up was even better, due to the inclusion of the previous story during Big Time AND THE INCLUSION OF DEATH'S HEAD COULD ANYTHING BE COOLER?!?!
the Thor team-up was okay, but I'm mostly just interested in what SpOck has planned for his formerly Sinister teammates
AND OH YES SOMETHING COULD TOTALLY BE COOLER THAN DEATH'S HEAD:

I. LOVED. the Sleepwalker story we got. The artist did such an amazing job re-imagining Sleepy in order to make him look more creepy and otherworldly, and I thought it was a great choice by Yost to emphasize the 'ole switcheroo that Sleepy and Rick are able to achieve. It might seem like a weird choice at first, but I would kill to see Sleepwalker become more entrenched in Spidey's neighborhood/comics. (Hey, don't look at me weird! Consider who Sleepy's more fearsome foe is!)

So yeah. In general, I'm happy that the solid characterization that we saw through Big Time continues into the Superior era.

-Pav, who laughed every time SpOck said, "The die is cast!"...

[Mister Mets]

I'm reading Superior, and at the same point as well.

A random thing I'm wondering about is how to group the issues together for "Best Of" lists.

Should Superior Spider-Man #1-3 be three stories, or one, since there is an A-plot and it's all by Slott and Stegman? Or is Superior Spider-Man all one big story?

Currently, I've got Superior Spider-Man #1-10 as one story since it's got the Ghost Peter plot, and the aftermath, and that seems a fair way to compare that period of the Spider-Man comics to something like a TPB length story, or even a Roger Stern two-parter.

[FF-Fighter]

Superior only gets better. Especially during the Superior Venom story. Things start ramping up from there!

[Pav]

I'm reading Superior, and at the same point as well.

A random thing I'm wondering about is how to group the issues together for "Best Of" lists.

Should Superior Spider-Man #1-3 be three stories, or one, since there is an A-plot and it's all by Slott and Stegman? Or is Superior Spider-Man all one big story?

Currently, I've got Superior Spider-Man #1-10 as one story since it's got the Ghost Peter plot, and the aftermath.

Oh, I think there's multiple logical ways of "cataloging" this era of stories.

Obviously, the whole 30-some issues is one big story, and to be honest, it's really just an "end" to the Big Time era of Spidey comics, as well as an entrance into the next era. (Of course, we could consider all of Slott's work as one big story.)

I've got all of Superior in trades, so that informs my perspective pretty definitively as well.

-Pav, who (for Best Of lists) would just count the whole thing as one story with multiple chapters...

[Mister Mets]

Oh, I think there's multiple logical ways of "cataloging" this era of stories.

Obviously, the whole 30-some issues is one big story, and to be honest, it's really just an "end" to the Big Time era of Spidey comics, as well as an entrance into the next era. (Of course, we could consider all of Slott's work as one big story.)

I've got all of Superior in trades, so that informs my perspective pretty definitively as well.

-Pav, who (for Best Of lists) would just count the whole thing as one story with multiple chapters...

I get that it can count as one story, but it seems kind of absurd to try comparing it to "The Kid Who Collects Spider-Man."

On the other hand, it has a clear beginning, middle and end. There is also constant set-up to the final fight between SpOck and Norman Osborn.