How Should Magic Be Depicted In The DCU?

[Outside_85]

Heart of the matter is that all characters need to be unique in one way or another in the use of their powers even when they on paper appear to be quite similar.
Like both Fate and Zatanna are borderline reality warpers with the difference lying in the mumbo jumbo they have to speak to generate the effect. I wouldn't mind however if the result is vastly different and somehow reflecting the caster to a degree... like Fate castings are very effective but not all that spectacular... unlike Zatanna, a professional stage performer.

As for the team, yeah, making sure everyone has their corner in some way or another is vital... but a team of magicians can ofc simply be their powers that does it. The GL books have to do it through the personalities of the wielders.
And even the groups Agent Z mentions, you can section off each of the members as having special skills the other do not have... so even if you have a team composed of Zatanna, Fate, Raven and Enchantress, you still get a pile of uniqueness.

[Lee Stone]

Think one of the great things about magic, is that it can basically be used in whatever way a writer likes, as Ulysses demonstrates.

As for 'types': I am sticking with the idea that magic is what it is, but it is the caster that changes it and is limited by their own minds and skills... the better they are at magic, the more they can do with it.
Like if we think of a power-rank in terms of magic power/skill, near the bottom you have someone like Blue Devil who is magically based and powered but has such little skill with it that he can basically only punch things harder, and if he took time to learn and develop his craft he could advance to be much more like Etrigan, who is limited by his own personality and the curse he is bound under. Moving on we have the incredibly skilled magicians like Dr. Fate who could/can do almost anything. And moving on again we have the near-omnipotents like the Spectre.

I imagine it would be the same way a magic user thinks of non-magic superheroes: "Don't you all just fly and shoot energy blasts?"

[Fairyprincess]

Books of magic should be one of the dcu's magical cornerstones....

[Trey Strain]

Characters who can "do anything" are one of those things that people on message boards get excited about but that reliably fail to sell.

Yeah, I know, There was a Sandman comic once that...

[Outside_85]

I imagine it would be the same way a magic user thinks of non-magic superheroes: "Don't you all just fly and shoot energy blasts?"

I could imagine that being the case for people who dont pay much attention to them or dont have much of any contact with them.

Characters who can "do anything" are one of those things that people on message boards get excited about but that reliably fail to sell.

Yeah, I know, There was a Sandman comic once that...

News just came in: Superman still sells.

[Agent Z]

I could imagine that being the case for people who dont pay much attention to them or dont have much of any contact with them.



News just came in: Superman still sells.

In fairness, not all the time. And recently he gets outsold by Batman and I think even Spider-Man.

[Outside_85]

In fairness, not all the time. And recently he gets outsold by Batman and I think even Spider-Man.

True, but the point is Superman still sells, maybe not at the levels he once did but more than enough to keep several books going month in and month out... and that he's a character that can do just about anything: because he's Superman.

[Agent Z]

True, but the point is Superman still sells, maybe not at the levels he once did but more than enough to keep several books going month in and month out... and that he's a character that can do just about anything: because he's Superman.

Speaking of Superman, how do you feel about aliens having magic? Or should it be solely an Earth thing?

[Outside_85]

Speaking of Superman, how do you feel about aliens having magic? Or should it be solely an Earth thing?

Aliens should have magic.

However, as said earlier, I think I would want to explain why Earth has such a large concentration of magic... like being on an intersection of universal ley-lines, you could add that places like Ryut (home of the Red Lanterns) and the much later Sorcerers World (LOSH) are in similar positions or simply steeped in a certain kind of miasma that makes certain kinds of magic really powerful there.

What could also be done, is that perhaps Earth only has so many mages because the Guardians of Oa didn't arrive to stamp them all out, as they might have done elsewhere to instill order in the universe.

[Incognito]

I got this from TV Tropes, it was easy enough for me to see how each magic differentiate from each other.

Inherent Gift: The Homo Magi, members of a subspecies of humanity with the ability to work magic quickly and easily. Zatanna is a homo magi from her father side, she has the inherent ability to use magick (e.g. Zatanna, Traci 13, Zatara, etc.).

Rule Magic: Manipulation by "True Name" or sympathetic symbolism, or elaborate ritual. Most "study spells and say words of power" magic seen in fantasy literature, films and TV shows are Rule Magic. Rule Magic has rules and limiations. One example of this variety of rule magic takes the form of Geometric Magic based on systems of complex figures, or matrices of Glowing Runes, connected by Tron Lines implied to function somewhat like a circuit board. (e.g. Constantine, Zatanna, pretty much access to anyone with an Inheritance or skilled enough).

Alchemy: Chemical Magic. Limited to creating magical substances rather than the direct application of power/energy by force of will. Differs from other Rule Magics in that it often employs only the magic inherent in the materials used, rather than magic from the "caster"; depending on the setting, practitioners of alchemy may or may not have (or be required to have) magical ability of their own. (e.g. Doctor Alchemy)

Force Magic: Users can tap into and control or weave together one or more magical forces. Often invokes a Background Magic Field. (e.g. The Green - Swamp Thing, Poison Ivy and Black Orchid, The Red - Animal Man and Vixen, The Rot - Anton Arcane, etc.)

Device Magic: Magic performed with some form of mystical device or relic. This is the magic packaged for use by non-casters, as are alchemical potions. (e.g. Dr. Occult, Dr. Thirteen)

Theurgy: Where the magic is done entirely by spirits, gods and cosmic entities with whom the caster makes deals; the "caster" in this case knows nothing more than a glorified phone number — and preferably how to negotiate really well. (e.g. Deadman - Rama Kushna, Billy Batson - The Wizard and the Gods.)

Wild Magic: No one has any control over what happens or when it happens, although sometimes these can be influenced. The magic is basically alive. It has its own will and its own agenda or, more often, its own set of rapidly changing whims no sane person could hope to predict and it will only help you if it feels like it. (e.g. June Moon - The Enchantress, Jim Corrigan - Spectre; they should belong to the Theurgy list but Spectre has a mind of it's own.)

[Trey Strain]

The last time I checked, Superman wasn't magical. Take away the Kryptonite and the vulnerability to -- wait for it -- magic, and he would just about be. But he's not.

The list of magical characters who have failed repeatedly is long and convincing to anyone who pays any attention to it.

A magical character could work if you'd put some limitations on him.

[Trey Strain]

When something fails again and again, the burden falls on you to say why it should continue to be done.

[Outside_85]

The last time I checked, Superman wasn't magical. Take away the Kryptonite and the vulnerability to -- wait for it -- magic, and he would just about be. But he's not.

Last I checked, there isn't a problem that exists in comics that Superman cannot fix with one of his numerous abilities. And he treats science with such casual disdain it might as well be contempt and his abilities be called magic.

[Outside_85]

Edit, follow-up to the question about alien magics and the suggestion for the framework:

I was thinking that the Guardians did with magic what they did with the Starheart and what they did with the Burning. Like in the olden days the Guardians were after all a little more eager to impose their will on everyone else, things that disagreed with their notion of order was to be either reigned in or stamped out and the disruption that magic is to the natural world would certainly register on the Guardians threat-radar.
Reason Earth would have been spared this treatment is simply because the Guardians conducted their last big witch hunt so long ago mankind hadn't even climbed out of the trees yet.

So, while the Guardians may have relaxed their anti-magic policies, or delegated the handling of them to the Manhunters and later the GLC, it would mean that there might not be very many of them and most of them remain in hiding... considering what happened to Atrocitus and his demon pals was done to set an example.

Curious though... what if there was a story where the Guardians, in their infinite wisdom and rigor mortis, or their eventual replacements, decides it's about time to bring Earth magics back under control for it's own sake and that of the universe resulting in a future tech vs magic event.

[Lee Stone]

Edit, follow-up to the question about alien magics and the suggestion for the framework:

I was thinking that the Guardians did with magic what they did with the Starheart and what they did with the Burning. Like in the olden days the Guardians were after all a little more eager to impose their will on everyone else, things that disagreed with their notion of order was to be either reigned in or stamped out and the disruption that magic is to the natural world would certainly register on the Guardians threat-radar.
Reason Earth would have been spared this treatment is simply because the Guardians conducted their last big witch hunt so long ago mankind hadn't even climbed out of the trees yet.

So, while the Guardians may have relaxed their anti-magic policies, or delegated the handling of them to the Manhunters and later the GLC, it would mean that there might not be very many of them and most of them remain in hiding... considering what happened to Atrocitus and his demon pals was done to set an example.

Curious though... what if there was a story where the Guardians, in their infinite wisdom and rigor mortis, or their eventual replacements, decides it's about time to bring Earth magics back under control for it's own sake and that of the universe resulting in a future tech vs magic event.

I think aliens should be able to have magic abilities.

Some magic is based on elemental energy, which is grounded in the periodic table of elements. Some planets/aliens would just have a different elemental/chemical make-up from Earth/humans, and magic based on that would be adapted accordingly.

Some magic is based on spirits and souls, which brings up the question of aliens and if they have spirits, souls or a religion.

And some magic is best explained by Obi-Wan Kenobi as being a drawn from the force that binds the galaxy together. Which is somewhat similar to New Age mysticism concepts.

And then there's some magic that's based on astrology, and the sun and moon in relation to the Earth.
Other planets would just have a different timetable, with different placements of celestial bodies and different day-night cycles, with maybe multiple suns and/or moons with their beliefs drawn from their understanding of creation and their interpretation of the forces of nature.