The case for Angela as Marvel's flagship superheroine or why Captain Marvel hasn't catched on so far

[Hypestyle]

Cause Carol Danvers being the top Marvel Women is recent. And its more caused by Marvel not having the House of X for Movies. The X-men provided all of Marvels most Iconic Superheroine. It wasn't until the MCU and Bendis redoing the Avengers that the Avengers became more prominent and while some of the dudes were ready made to move into prime positions. The Women of the Avengers weren't really. So its more of a catchup. Carol will be pushed because she Has Marvel in her title. Even though I think Kamala Khan has kinda surpassed her.

It could have been Storm, but oh well.

I hope Angela is introduced to the cartoons and the movies. That's the only way I see her "blowing up" more as a character.

[Holt]

Black Widow is more popular with the general audience because the general audience doesn't know Carol exists.

As for the very small comicbook fandom, none of the very many Captain Marvels, Black Widow, or Storm are popular enough to sell a book, except for Carol Danvers.

That's why I find the continued argument of nobody knows who she is to be so funny. No ****. Once you get past a select few Marvel heroes, most of the audience has no idea who these people are before they get in movies.

[kcekada]

Her current outfit does have callbacks to the original. Dropping the sash would be completely removing one of the most notable traits of Carol as a heroine, which is her flowing red sash.

And Carol didn't always have that lightning bolt. She's had that gold star just as long as she's had the lightning bolt. Neither of those symbols is more definitive of her time as Ms. Marvel than the other. It's not like she was rocking Mar-vell's Giant Green circle.

The sash was not created to be a defining component -- it worked as a design element. It didn't work with the new Captain Marvel outfit -- and was often drawn too large. I liked how it was refined as more of a belt -- but most of the outfit still looks so generic to me. Of course, the hairstyle isn't generic, but I'm with those who prefer the longer hairstyle.

[kcekada]

I too am not enamored of Carl Danvers' new uniform and his short hair.

Those are all more interesting than her current look. C is more akin to Mar-vell's outfit -- which is undoubtedly one of the best designs from the Bronze Age. I don't really get the S in design A -- guess it's a stylized bolt. Otherwise, it's too similar to the Ultimates look that Bryan Hitch created. E is a clever design, and D isn't bad, but I think C works the best.

Design is so subjective, but I hope the people working on the Captain Marvel film share my dislike for the current look --- and come up wth something close to the above.

[Holt]

I don't really see it happening, to be honest. I could see them perhaps going for something more alien-looking but I doubt there will be any significant influence from the old swimsuit.

[Carabas]

I too am not enamored of Carl Danvers' new uniform and his short hair.

It's 2016. We have moved beyond hair length as a gender indicator.

[Holt]

It's 2016. We have moved beyond hair length as a gender indicator.

Whenever people say stuff like that it makes me realize if they ever leave the house or interact with real women, because there are a **** ton of women with short hair.

[Icefalcon]

Do people really dislike Carol's captain costume?

Yep absolutely loathe it.
I've said it before it looks like she's part of a dance ensemble in a 50's movie musical troupe. I still can't see why she can't wear the original Cap's uniform along with carrying his name as a legacy, it was a pretty cool costume I thought.

[Zero Hunter]

I too am not enamored of Carl Danvers' new uniform and his short hair.

Both C and D look much better than her current look to me.

[Wulf1984]

Carol danvers deserve the Captain Marvel title because she actually has a link to Captain MarVell and to the Captain Marvel mythos. In addition her character actually held rank in the military and she constantly find herself in a position of command. Being part Kree, Carol actually has a real connection to the other characters who held the mantle. Also in calling herself Captain Marvel honors the man who saved her life and was once a close friend.

Monica just thought the name was cool with no real connection to the mythos or the Kree at all.

I agree with this.

She doesnt look badass. Thats the problem its like fenale characters have to be more like men to be considered relevant. So she gets a crew cut and a personality based on Chuck Yeager,covers up and shes supposed to be cool. Nah I'd take the old Carol over the new.

Personally, While I love the name change, I like the long hair and lightning bolt swimsuit better. I thought that it was Carol's OWN symbol and look, to establish herself as her own hero. It was to the extent that one could forget the whole Mar-Vell involvement or be ignorant of it. If one of the goals to present her as the premiere female hero (the Wonder Woman of Marvel) was to cover her up (as any woman who shows skin = pole dancer these days), I wish they would have kept her old look with the lightning bolt, sash, domino mask and long hair, but made the swimsuit a full-on body suit.

[simbob4000]

Compared to whom?

Compared to everyone that was getting realistic costume makeovers since, like, The Authority came out. It was kind of interesting back in the early 2000s, but everyone getting undynamic superhero costumes is getting boring.

That was my initial reaction as well -- what is this -- Miraclewoman?! Of course, Miracleman was orignally named Marvelman -- so there is a connection -- intentional or not. There is nothing about it that is very head-turning. Even the star logo is less prominent than it should be because of the yellow bands leading to her shoulders. I also think they should have maintained the black/red color scheme -- instead of going with that generic blue.

But I've seen some artists do a better job than others with the current outfit -- unfortunately, few of those artist work on Captain Marvel's series.

As for the stories -- I liked a couple of Kelly's stories from the first CM volume, but they get more boring with each new relaunch. Carol in space seemed like a good idea, but the execution was wanting.

Given this costume came right around the time Marvel had bought Marvelman, I'd be pretty surprised if it wasn't intentional.

Yeah, they're have been a few people I've seen draw the costume where it looked less boring. The problem still is though, those same people could also draw any one of her old costumes and have it look better. The weird thing is they seem to have mostly dropped the helmet, which was kind of like the most interesting thing about the new costume. I did like the costume when Filipe Andrade was doing it.

In the last few years her best costume would probably be the Avengers Earth's Mightiest Heroes cartoon one that's based on her original costume.

[Beaubier]

I haven't read Angela's books so I can't say much about trying to make her an A-lister.

I will agree that Carol is boring. At least she is now. I've given her book a few chances because of Alpha Flight but I just don't find it terribly interesting, and I'm disappointed that my fave, Aurora is getting a generic characterization in it. Hopefully Carol's movie will be better.

I disagree about the long hair, though. I like Carol's haircut.

[Michael Watkins]

why Angela and not Thundra?

[Hrist]

On the Carol Danvers "push"— it didn't begin with the Jamie McKelvie redesign or the DeConnick relaunch, imo. It at least goes back to House of M, which featured an alternate universe where Carol was Captain Marvel and the premier heroine in all the land. That launched a new ongoing Ms. Marvel book with the initial premise of Carol trying to make herself into an "A-List" hero, pretty meta, establishing a theme for Carol discussion. That book lasted 50 issues, which is not a bad number, and certainly helps explain why Marvel keeps trying to make a Carol book stick.

Originally Marvel tried to push Carol as a heroine with connections to the up-and-coming Avengers franchise and the more popular X-books. These days, the tide has turned and Carol is a link between the trendy cosmic stuff and the now-premier Avengers franchise. It also helped that writers like Bendis grew up reading the late 70s-early 80s comics where Carol was previously popular— characters from the same era like Jessica Drew and Luke Cage have also featured prominently under Bendis.

Anyway, the point is that the decision to push Carol has actually been several decisions, going back more than a decade, some of them via editorial fiat and some creative choice. In the time that Marvel has been pushing Carol, they've relaunched Black Panther and Moon Knight a whole bunch of times, as well as multiple She-Hulk books, multiple Black Widow books, multiple Spider-Woman books, &c &c. Carol hasn't kept them from trying to push other female characters, like Angela or Gwen Stacy or Squirrel Girl. Over this long Carol Danvers push Carol's obviously been reworked and repitched, but so have a lot of other characters, including ones we accept as "A-List" unconditionally. Marvel changes its approach based on what it thinks is popular and will sell. Carol has connections to mutants, the Kree, the Avengers, and feminist themes, all of which have been hot at one time or another, but I think these connections which she's built over time are evidence more of her durability as a character than evidence of her flimsiness. After all, every superhero is a patchwork that goes through phases of characterization.

I do think that Marvel's attempts at putting Carol at the center of their events is hampering her as a solo character. Every ongoing gets derailed for some kind of tie-in after a few issues. It probably helps keep sales up but it's not great as a creative direction.

[JediKage]

Oh come on Squirrel Girl and Spider-gwen aint ever going to be top dog.