The case for Angela as Marvel's flagship superheroine or why Captain Marvel hasn't catched on so far

[kcekada]

I couldn't disagree more. Captain Marvel Carol's original design of her current costume is not boring at all! When drawn like this it is sexy AF. The only thing I want is for Carol to grow her hair out, but I LOVE her costume. It gives me a Phoenix bodysuit silhouette, which is a plus considering that the Dark Phoenix costume is my favorite Marvel female costume ever.

Well, Cockrum's Ms. Marvel design is much closer to Phoenix design -- which is no coincidence since he designed both of those. Byrne just changed the color for Dark Phoenix. But in the above pic, he body suit is much darker -- almost black -- and that make the other elements pop more. That said -- still not a fan of the gold shoulder/breast bands -- as the detract the star emblem.

[GrandEleven]

I don't think many of the new fans of Angela understand how much iconic the space bikini is. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with Angela's bounty hunter costume OR Wonder Woman's armor. Her armor from Asgardian's Assassin was way too busy, and there are some concepts that you just don't mess with.

Iconic? She hadn't been in a comic in over a decade, and the Spawn issues she's in (I own them) have her and the entire angel race as hyper-sexualized walking boobs and thongs. I mean come on, her role as pre-teen fap-material wasn't even subtle:





She needs a costuem update, and her earlier solo run gave her a plethora to choose from. I see no reason to fall back on the bikini look, and the wings _fit_.

With that said, I'd rather see her getting written by Waid in Avengers than Jane Thor. I wouldn't mind a trade there. Can you imagine a reverse Wanda/Pietro brotherhood within the Avengers between Angela and Thor? Because I think that would be glorious. I wouldn't want Angela to get just a supporting role in Unworthy Thor tho, regardless how much I like Aaron's writing. she getting a team is good for her exposure, I just wish it was the Avengers instead. The Avenging Angela has a hell of a nice ring to it.

Mighty Thor would work as well, I think either would contrast her dry almost Spock-like tone just fine. I just don't get her value in GotG. Shes basically Drax, what dynamic does she add?

[simbob4000]

This isn't the 90s. Angela hadn't been used in over 13 years by the time Marvel got their hands on her. By the time Marvel was pushing Carol, she was averaging 40K in sales, while Spawn was barely even selling. The first time I ever read a comic with Angela in it was when she fought the Guardians of The Galaxy on the moon. Carol is far more popular.

And comic sales aren't what they were in the '90s. Most people reading comics now were probably reading comics in the '90s, and to a good deal of people that don't read comics anymore the '90s probably are comics too them. The funny thing about saying this isn't the '90s in relation to Angela is Danvers is a '70s-'80s character that Marvel has been trying to make happen since 2006.

[Wiccan]

Angela is getting the Premium
Format Figure for a new Guardians of the Galaxy set by Sideshow Collectibles, and the teaser looks like it's shaping up pretty epic: [/IMG]

Carol's figure of that line has a completely original design never used on the comics, so that probably doesn't mean anything.

[Mike82]

And comic sales aren't what they were in the '90s. Most people reading comics now were probably reading comics in the '90s, and to a good deal of people that don't read comics anymore the '90s probably are comics too them. The funny thing about saying this isn't the '90s in relation to Angela is Danvers is a '70s-'80s character that Marvel has been trying to make happen since 2006.

Not sure what you mean by "trying to make Carol happen." She's a popular character. Is she as popular as Marvel would like her to be? No, but she's still leagues ahead of Angela in popularity. As far as your comment on sales and people still reading comics, it seems Marvel is more interested in keeping younger readers entertained. Marvel is getting a lot more younger readers than ever before because of the MCU and digital comics.

[kevinism]

I love Spider Woman and Carol but their last few runs have been so.. Not what I wanted.. I'm waiting

[kcekada]

I think that's because they are trying to appeal to new/different/younger readers. I've come to realize that going forward -- most of Marvel's series are not going to appeal to me.

[simbob4000]

Not sure what you mean by "trying to make Carol happen." She's a popular character. Is she as popular as Marvel would like her to be? No, but she's still leagues ahead of Angela in popularity. As far as your comment on sales and people still reading comics, it seems Marvel is more interested in keeping younger readers entertained. Marvel is getting a lot more younger readers than ever before because of the MCU and digital comics.

I mean they've been trying to make her into a big deal since 2006, and no matter how much they seemingly insist that she is, it never really feels like she is. One of the things that feels so weird about Civil War 2 is that Danvers is being played as the big counterpoint to Iron Man. Why is she there? The character doesn't feel like she occupies that kind of space.

The thing is that Angela, at one point in time, was far bigger than Danvers has ever been. She was this known popular character from one of the biggest comics in a time when comics were at their biggest. I don't even really quite get what Marvel is doing with Angela, what was the point of taking this character that was tied into Spawn, hell, and demons, and making her just another one of the Asgardians when they've got characters with titles covering that?

That's a lot of bull, Marvel isn't getting more younger readers than in the '80s and '90s, their sales numbers are no where near high enough for that to even be remotely true.

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

Well, the sales clearly haven't reflected that. I like the fact that DeConnick made her Captain Marvel, but it's pretty much just that. And I love Mckelvie's art, but the design for the costume not so much. And well, the book isn't selling well, and wasn't selling well with DeConnick either. Her most popular run was with Brian Reed's.



Maybe Dauterman did a better job selling the armor, but I just fail to see what is the problem with her new "space bikini" and most of all, how her "space bikini" (which is a Queen of Hel joke btw) is less covered than Wonder Woman's:

Angela's old 'space bikini'


Wonder Woman's Rebirth costume


Angela's space bikini 2

These costume designs are to me TERRIFIC!

[penthotal]

I mean they've been trying to make her into a big deal since 2006, and no matter how much they seemingly insist that she is, it never really feels like she is. One of the things that feels so weird about Civil War 2 is that Danvers is being played as the big counterpoint to Iron Man. Why is she there? The character doesn't feel like she occupies that kind of space.

She is in-story. She leads the new Alpha Flight that defends Earth from all inter galactic dangers and maintains diplomatic relations with all known alien civilizations. You can't judge how important she is in the MU based on the sales of her books in real life. During Dark Reign, for example, Osborn had a similar importance without even having a book, and after the first Civil War Stark had it despite it's book not selling so much.

The thing is that Angela, at one point in time, was far bigger than Danvers has ever been. She was this known popular character from one of the biggest comics in a time when comics were at their biggest. I don't even really quite get what Marvel is doing with Angela, what was the point of taking this character that was tied into Spawn, hell, and demons, and making her just another one of the Asgardians when they've got characters with titles covering that?

Was she? She appeared in a best selling book sure, but aside from that? Comicvine says she appeared in 190 comic books issues. Approximately 30-35 are from Image books, and only 3 in her own book (a 3 issues mini series), the remaining 155-160 are in Marvel books of the last two years. If she was so popular she probably would have had her book. Even Sam & Twitch had a long running solo that spawn from Spawn. And today, almost nobody knows who she is, in fact, her solos sold quite less than the Captain Marvel ones, so the argument "cap marvel it's not happening why not Angela" doesn't hold she is "not happening" too.

EDIT: more importantly, why Angela when Marvel has so many more iconic characters that have 30, 40, 50 or even 60 years of history? Invisible Woman, Wasp, She Hulk, Storm, Black Widow, and others all have more history and are more developed characters than Angela, and are more widely known inside and outside of comics.

[mrPizza]

Angela came up around the time there were lots of scantily clad bad girls in the '90's. I put her in the same category as the likes of Shi, Lady Death, 90's Catwoman, Artemis,

Magdalena, Witchblade, Lady Rawhide etc ... and so forth. I dont see her doing anything interesting. As far as being a cosmic assassin most dangerous type I still prefer the Abnett Gamora. Never

really cared, for Danvers. She just has the company name as her cape identity and her strong independent bitch characterization is pretty factory line to me. With CW2 its her

turn to wear the stupid hat worn by Iron Man in CW.

[simbob4000]

She is in-story. She leads the new Alpha Flight that defends Earth from all inter galactic dangers and maintains diplomatic relations with all known alien civilizations. You can't judge how important she is in the MU based on the sales of her books in real life. During Dark Reign, for example, Osborn had a similar importance without even having a book, and after the first Civil War Stark had it despite it's book not selling so much.

Only Osborn is one of the most iconic villains of their biggest character. You see how that's different than Danvers being the opposing character to Iron Man in this big event? Would make more sense for Medusa to be in the Captain Marvel role

Was she? She appeared in a best selling book sure, but aside from that? Comicvine says she appeared in 190 comic books issues. Approximately 30-35 are from Image books, and only 3 in her own book (a 3 issues mini series), the remaining 155-160 are in Marvel books of the last two years. If she was so popular she probably would have had her book. Even Sam & Twitch had a long running solo that spawn from Spawn. And today, almost nobody knows who she is, in fact, her solos sold quite less than the Captain Marvel ones, so the argument "cap marvel it's not happening why not Angela" doesn't hold she is "not happening" too.

Yes, she was. I'm kind of not even sure why that would be a question. She was one of the biggest Spawn characters when Spawn was its biggest and that's when comics were their most read.

EDIT: more importantly, why Angela when Marvel has so many more iconic characters that have 30, 40, 50 or even 60 years of history? Invisible Woman, Wasp, She Hulk, Storm, Black Widow, and others all have more history and are more developed characters than Angela, and are more widely known inside and outside of comics.

I don't know why Angela? I didn't start the thread. But it is any interesting question. The character was this huge character that was in this giant comic at one point, it is kind of weird Marvel seemingly has no idea what to do with her. I don't really know if I'd say Wasp is more iconic, same with She-Hulk. Marvel got Marvelman too, and it's pretty bizarre they haven't really done anything with that character in the Marvel Universe. But then what characters Marvel does and doesn't do anything with is always kind of weird.

[Icefalcon]

I mean they've been trying to make her into a big deal since 2006, and no matter how much they seemingly insist that she is, it never really feels like she is. One of the things that feels so weird about Civil War 2 is that Danvers is being played as the big counterpoint to Iron Man. Why is she there? The character doesn't feel like she occupies that kind of space.

Well the movie will either do it for them or it will prove that even Marvel movies can't turn everything to gold, in which case they'll either get their wish or at that point will seriously have to reconsider Carol's push again.

[Wiccan]

Well the movie will either do it for them or it will prove that even Marvel movies can't turn everything to gold, in which case they'll either get their wish or at that point will seriously have to reconsider Carol's push again.

Unless the movie is a complete failure, what never really happened on the MCU, Captain Marvel 2 and 3 are most probably happening. Which means she'll still have a place in the comics. Just look how Steve came back as Cap after Civil War and Thor back in general now that his movie is getting close.

[Icefalcon]

Unless the movie is a complete failure, what never really happened on the MCU, Captain Marvel 2 and 3 are most probably happening. Which means she'll still have a place in the comics. Just look how Steve came back as Cap after Civil War and Thor back in general now that his movie is getting close.

You're absolutely right, but one of these days Marvel is going to have a movie fail. Now I'm not saying it will be Carol's movie, because it should be a hit, but eventually there will be a fail.

For me it's already happened with Thor Dark World which is the only one available on DVD I don't own. (And the Ang Lee Hulk of course but that doesn't count)