The case for Angela as Marvel's flagship superheroine or why Captain Marvel hasn't catched on so far

[KOSLOX]

"The case for Angela as Marvel's flagship superheroine or why Captain Marvel hasn't catched on so far ."

LOL. Good one.

[Johnrevenge]

I like Carol's Captain marvel costume. It's an homage to Mar-Vell's costume, but Anka designed it in a way that it was more Carol's than Mar-Vell.

I liked the silver armor that Angela used during her first series. It was awesome and beautiful, I would love if they kept using it. The iconic gold armor for me looks very dated, it gives a vibe from the 90s, and it's as Michael Kors would say "slutty, slutty, slutty".

[Galerion]

A cosmic assassin.

Speaking about that. So is Gamora. A character that already has appeared in the MCU. What are your reasons why Angela should get preferred treatment to her?

[ijacksparrow]

I would very much argue this point. Is Marvel having a character with their name a little silly? Maybe.
But more of a struggle to accept than Captain America? I disagree. Look at the first Cap movie,when non-US countries had the option to title it as 'The First Avenger' rather than Captain America. 'Captain America' sounds Jingoistic, a character built to appeal to Americans; 'Captain Marvel' sounds more universal.

(And note, I'm just saying how it appears. In universe, Cap isn't the "U!S!A!" type... but the patriotism is still a factor to him. Does Carol have patriotism, as a US soldier? Absolutely. But the moniker, 'Captain Marvel', doesn't suggest that. In that way, she actually could appeal to a wider audience. )

You're just expanding on what I've just said, read again before arguing, haha.

I do think that Carol has, perhaps, been idealised to an extent; some of the flaws I remember from her early days seem to have been softbooted out of the character. However, I do think she has a lot of fascinating stuff going on; her current role as leader of Alpha Flight sounds pretty interesting. But, I haven't read enough of Captain Marvel to argue the point; all I'll say, as a lay person, is that I don't see why Captain Marvel, on the face of it, should be less interesting than Captain America.

Again, I didn't said that Captain Marvel has an uphill battle bigger than Captain America based on face value alone like her costume and name. With that said... I'm definitely sure that Carol isn't as interesting as Cap just before him getting his film. The whole Ed Brubaker and Steve Epting run made the character cool and contemporary. Captain Marvel is just not there yet, and looking at these relaunches I just can't see how she even will get something like that anytime soon. Also the whole in universe popularity and being the Alpha Flight leader seems boring as hell to me. She's basically leading the newest version of S.W.O.R.D. with Alpha Flight's name, yay.

Hah, I'm a 'Cyclops was Right' kind of fan, so maybe Wolvering was a bad example. : P

But, I'd actually say Angel might be a bit too different, frankly. Honestly, looking at the cover you posted? She just doesn't look like someone I picture running around the Marvel universe (I mean, I know that's because she was invented for the 90's Spawn universe, but still...)

Aesthetically, she doesn't seem to mesh up with the rest of the cosmos; her armor doesn't look Asgardian, or like any of the other alien races we've seen. And, rankly, if she was getting used? It would definitely push the 'alien' side of it; the MCU films have quietly adjusted Asgard to more of an alien race than gods and myths, so I can't quite see how Angela running around killing angels and demons would work in that setting. If you're going to change it, to her running around killing aliens... well, Marvel has bounty hunter characters. Heck, Marvel has Gamora, who is already popular thanks to the Guardians movie.

(Not to mention, I just don't think PG-13 is a great fit for that kind of bloody character. The Fox films dance awkwardly around it, but the Marvel movies are definitely meant more for kids and young adults; there is no way they are going to go all bloody viscera and gore on their property).

Like I've said, if they make her an demon/alien/monster/god killer, they can easily get away wth a PG-13 rating, it could be Wolverine's type of edgy and still be cool. She walking around in a "space bikini" like Hela's handmaiden said isn't that different than Wonder Woman's costume, and I think the whole point is that she shouldn't look like the other characters, she looks unique, and I'd argue that she doesn't have a 90s image look influenced look but something that could look different and at same time similar enough to rival Wonder Woman in bad assery and sass.

Also, I'm one of the "Cyclops was right" people and yet I love Wolverine. One thing doesn't take away from the other.

Now- I could be wrong. Ten years ago, I never would have thought we'd get... well, any of the movies we've gotten since then. "

Seriously, they are gonna make an Ant Man movie? Guardians of the what? Ms Marvel- you mean that superheroine Rogue mind drained, she's gonna get a movie?!This is gonna flop so badly."

At the moment, Angela is just not a viable product for Marvel to put their eggs into... but then again, neither was Carol. Neither was Iron Man. I'll concede that they could build her up in the comics to the point that fans want -nay, demand- an on-screen appearance... that that isn't now, and it isn't yet. Honestly, I've never heard anyone - in universe or out- talk about Angela, whereas Captain Marvel? She's popular. And if I was a movie producer, and I had to choose between them, I'd go for Cap.

So... yeah. Maybe Angela could get a film eventualy, but she'll need to build up a comics reputation first of all (which might not even be enough, since seriously, we are only now getting a Wonder Woman film, what the hell DC?). Expecting Marvel to decide she should be the cornerstone of their franchise, right now? That's unrealistic.

I'm not saying that Captain Marvel might not have a successful film. Everything that Marvel Studios touches turns gold, but there's something off with Captain Marvel in the comics, and I wish we didn't have to wait for Marvel Studios to fix it and the comics get inspired by that, since it's going to take a while for the film yet.

Speaking about that. So is Gamora. A character that already has appeared in the MCU. What are your reasons why Angela should get preferred treatment to her?

I like Gamora too, but after reading Angela's two runs, I just think she has more of the potential and the edge than Gamora. Also more possibilities to explore and she's just cooler imho.

[Johnrevenge]

I like Gamora too, but after reading Angela's two runs, I just think she has more of the potential and the edge than Gamora. Also more possibilities to explore and she's just cooler imho.

I would prefer to see more of Gamora than from Angela, as I find Gamora more interesting and with a greater background (Gamora would just need a good writer). The only work of Angela that I liked was the tie-in of Secret Wars in 1602, and it was set in an alternate universe, the rest of the series were a little boring (I only liked her silver amor with wings)

[ijacksparrow]

I like Carol's Captain marvel costume. It's an homage to Mar-Vell's costume, but Anka designed it in a way that it was more Carol's than Mar-Vell.

I liked the silver armor that Angela used during her first series. It was awesome and beautiful, I would love if they kept using it. The iconic gold armor for me looks very dated, it gives a vibe from the 90s, and it's as Michael Kors would say "slutty, slutty, slutty".

Her new Guardians look isn't more or less "slutty" than Wonder Woman's. She's immortal, she doesn't need to get herself all covered. Angela's gold armor from Asgard's Assassin is WAY too busy. I'm not sure if Phil Jimenez was the one coming up with her, but he seemed to struggle to draw that and she looked just ugly, I really like the new "space bikini" better. And I don't think neither Angela's, Wonder Woman's or Kratos costumes for that matter slutty at all. And I'm tired of people seeing slutty on everything. Captain Marvel I can see it why she shouldn't look like a dominatrix with high boots, but Angela is a goddess and Wonder Woman is a demigoddess. They can get away looking warrior like just like Kratos just fine.

[JKtheMac]

Wow, how much more self defeating to your argument can you get by criticising a costume redesign by one of the modern geniuses of costume in comics Jamie Mckelvie and claiming that the Captain Marvel uniform is somehow not working when that look literally exploded. Creating a cosplay phenomenon and an internet community in the process.

My only problem with the costume is that the old school artists drifted it back into a Lycra skin hugging affair, ignoring the sensibilities put across by the Mckelvie design. So now the look has been tidied-up and tweaked so it should no longer be possible to make her a naked body paint style character. (You just know some artists will do that anyway but Marvel are at least trying.)

Plus, the DeConnik run was a massive breakout hit that launched the character into the spotlight from a point of relative obscurity outside of Silver Age Marvel fans. The main reason she isn't still on that book is political and creator focused, not because it didn't sell.

[Johnrevenge]

Her new Guardians look isn't more or less "slutty" than Wonder Woman's. She's immortal, she doesn't need to get herself all covered. Angela's gold armor from Asgard's Assassin is WAY too busy. I'm not sure if Phil Jimenez was the one coming up with her, but he seemed to struggle to draw that and she looked just ugly, I really like the new "space bikini" better. And I don't think neither Angela's, Wonder Woman's or Kratos costumes for that matter slutty at all. And I'm tired of people seeing slutty on everything. Captain Marvel I can't see it why she shuldn't look like a dominatrix with high boots, but Angela is a goddess and Wonder Woman is a demigoddess. They can get away looking warrior like just like Kratos just fine.

I always prefered the armor she used during Asgard's assasin, she looked good on it, better than with the iconic bikini, and the wings were amazing (Dauterman in Thor goddes of thunder did a beautiful work showing the silver armor), they should have kept that costume instead of the "90s one", which I also find very dated (plus she is going to be in space, it's a little absurd to being in space wearing only an armored bikini, no matter if you are a goddes or a demigoddess or a warrior). Also Wonder Woman is a little more covered than Angela.

[Johnrevenge]

Plus, the DeConnik run was a massive breakout hit that launched the character into the spotlight from a point of relative obscurity outside of Silver Age Marvel fans. The main reason she isn't still on that book is political and creator focused, not because it didn't sell.

True, DeConnik's was one of the best runs and it was the responsible of bringing Carol as Captain Marvel and as a strong heroine.

[Tofali]

Watching Marvels attempts at making Captain Marvel happen is like watching any clips of Toddlers & Tiaras. Very cringe-y.

[ijacksparrow]

Wow, how much more self defeating to your argument can you get by criticising a costume redesign by one of the modern geniuses of costume in comics Jamie Mckelvie and claiming that it is somehow not working when that look literally exploded. Creating a cosplay phenomenon and an internet community in the process.

My only problem with the costume is that the old school artists drifted it back into a Lycra skin hugging affair, ignoring the sensibilities put across by the Mckelvie design. So now the look has been tidied-up and tweaked so it should no longer be possible to make her a naked body paint style character. (You just know some artists will do that anyway but Marvel are at least trying.)

Plus, the DeConnik run was a massive breakout hit that launched the character into the spotlight from a point of relative obscurity outside of Silver Age Marvel fans. The main reason she isn't still on that book is political and creator focused, not because it didn't sell.

Well, the sales clearly haven't reflected that. I like the fact that DeConnick made her Captain Marvel, but it's pretty much just that. And I love Mckelvie's art, but the design for the costume not so much. And well, the book isn't selling well, and wasn't selling well with DeConnick either. Her most popular run was with Brian Reed's.

I always prefered the armor she used during Asgard's assasin, she looked good on it, better than with the iconic bikini, and the wings were amazing (Dauterman in Thor goddes of thunder did a beautiful work showing the silver armor), they should have kept that costume instead of the "90s one", which I also find very dated (plus she is going to be in space, it's a little absurd to being in space wearing only an armored bikini, no matter if you are a goddes or a demigoddess or a warrior). Also Wonder Woman is a little more covered than Angela.

Maybe Dauterman did a better job selling the armor, but I just fail to see what is the problem with her new "space bikini" and most of all, how her "space bikini" (which is a Queen of Hel joke btw) is less covered than Wonder Woman's:

Angela's old 'space bikini'


Wonder Woman's Rebirth costume


Angela's space bikini 2

[HUTHAIFA]

You cant just make a character a flagship character. Angela does not sell.

Honestly, based off the movie alone, Black Widow should be the flagship heroine of the MU.

[Zero Hunter]

Marvel has been trying to push Angela ever since they got her, and by and large people just do not care about the character. She has gotten a bigger push than anything besides the Inhumans in the last 10 years and it just is not going over with most fans. They have had her featured in big events, tied her to one of their flagship characters, and put her on a team that is one of their hottest properties, and still nothing.

People just don't care about her period. She is D list or maybe C list at best.

[Johnrevenge]

You cant just make a character a flagship character. Angela does not sell.

Honestly, based off the movie alone, Black Widow should be the flagship heroine of the MU.

True, her last series was cancelled because sales were very low.

And yeah, Natasha is probably one of the biggest flagship heroines of the MU.

[ijacksparrow]

You cant just make a character a flagship character. Angela does not sell.

Honestly, based off the movie alone, Black Widow should be the flagship heroine of the MU.

And I agree with that. She has the popularity, the biggest A star actress possible and her books are critically acclaimed and selll way better than Captain Marvel's. My point is that I see untapped potential for Angela and I think that the whole bad ass ruthless assassin isn't getting explored enough within the MCU with Wolverine's absence. With Deadpool and Wolverine being Fox characters, my opinion is that Marvel should push Angela harder, the potential for she to breakout exists, based on how much her character developed with both of his runs. All she needs is the type of prominence that Jane Thor is getting imho.