The case for Angela as Marvel's flagship superheroine or why Captain Marvel hasn't catched on so far

[ijacksparrow]

Marvel has been trying to push Angela ever since they got her, and by and large people just do not care about the character. She has gotten a bigger push than anything besides the Inhumans in the last 10 years and it just is not going over with most fans. They have had her featured in big events, tied her to one of their flagship characters, and put her on a team that is one of their hottest properties, and still nothing.

People just don't care about her period. She is D list or maybe C list at best.

I strongly disagree that they pushed her. Her two books was very cult and well written, with quite a passionate following from what I gathered via social media. But she didn't get an Avengers push or ANAD or Marvel Now! teasers like Jane Thor and Captain Marvel get all the time. Guardians is fine, but Bendis is writing that and ehh.

[Johnrevenge]

And I agree with that. She has the popularity, the biggest A star actress possible and her books are critically acclaimed and selll way better than Captain Marvel's. My point is that I see untapped potential for Angela and I think that the whole bad ass ruthless assassin isn't getting explored enough within the MCU with Wolverine's absence. With Deadpool and Wolverine being Fox characters, my opinion is that Marvel should push Angela harder, the potential for she to breakout exists, based on how much her character developed with both of his runs. All she needs is the type of prominence that Jane Thor is getting imho.

I think you are one of the few ones who sees potential in Angela. There are other characters that could offer that "bad ass" warrior or assasin like Gamora or Elektra. As someone mentioned, they have tried to give big pushes to Angela (like in original sin of post Secret wars as they teased the full Queen of Hel thing), and they havent' worked very well sales speaking (the only things I liked from those pushes, were her silver armor and the Secret wars tie-in).

[ijacksparrow]

I think you are one of the few ones who sees potential in Angela. There are other characters that could offer that "bad ass" warrior or assasin like Gamora or Elektra. As someone mentioned, they have tried to give big pushes to Angela (like in original sin of post Secret wars as they teased the full Queen of Hel thing), and they havent' worked very well sales speaking (the only things I liked from those pushes, were her silver armor and the Secret wars tie-in).

Elektra is in Netflix, and I love her, but she's not an indestructible Asgardian goddess turned angel hunter bounty hunter. I just see more potential in her than either Gamora and Elektra when it comes to Marvel Studios. Also, more potential in her than Jane Thor right now, especially with Natalie Portman off the board.

[Johnrevenge]

Elektra is in Netflix, and I love her, but she's not an indestructible Asgardian goddess turned angel hunter bounty hunter. I just see more potential in her than either Gamora and Elektra when it comes to Marvel Studios. Also, more potential in her than Jane Thor right now, especially with Natalie Portman off the board.

They could pick another actress to play Jane Foster. It worked with Bruce Banner in the MCU, why it wouldn't with Jane?

And as I said you are one of the few who sees the potential. Gamora had already appeared in the MCU and she was amazing there.

[Of Atlantis]

I don't see the potential in Angela you do, OP.

And I don't think replacing a character struggling to keep a series past 12 issues with a character that can barely hold 6 is a good investment.

[Galerion]

Honestly, based off the movie alone, Black Widow should be the flagship heroine of the MU.

That is certainly an understandable line of thought. I would have nothing against it.
But of course Black Widow doesn't have Pew Pew superpowers and can fly around and stuff like that. She is "just" a spy. One that isn't a goody two shoes all the time either.
I personally find that line of thought silly but those are some of the arguments that I have heard when Black Widow being the premier female hero has been brought up.

[Johnrevenge]

That is certainly an understandable line of thought. I would have nothing against it.
But of course Black Widow doesn't have Pew Pew superpowers and can fly around and stuff like that. She is "just" a spy. One that isn't a goody two shoes all the time either.
I personally find that line of thought silly but those are some of the arguments that I have heard when Black Widow being the premier female hero has been brought up.

So then a character is only interesting if they have "pew pew" powers? Really?

Natasha is more than "just a spy". She is a character with an interesting background and constantly struggling with her dark past, that is able to find solutions without the use of violence and only counting with her wits. And when she has to fight, she is totally bad-ass.

[JKtheMac]

Well, the sales clearly haven't reflected that. I like the fact that DeConnick made her Captain Marvel, but it's pretty much just that. And I love Mckelvie's art, but the design for the costume not so much. And well, the book isn't selling well, and wasn't selling well with DeConnick either. Her most popular run was with Brian Reed's.

Different times, and total lack of comparative data mean we could argue the toss on that, it would all come down to trusting Diamond figures to actually be reflective of sales for Marvel. But DeConnick's run was a success by any objective measure and that is not supposed to reflect on any previous run.

We clearly have very different tastes in costume design. The Daniel Wonder Woman design is just horrid to my eyes. Overly busy, meaningless features and an attempt to keep naked thighs to please older fans. Nothing about what she is wearing says clothing or uniform. Nothing about the design is clean or representative of character.

[Galerion]

So then a character is only interesting if they have "pew pew" powers? Really?

Natasha is more than "just a spy". She is a character with an interesting background and constantly struggling with her dark past, that is able to find solutions without the use of violence and only counting with her wits. And when she has to fight, she is totally bad-ass.

You are preaching to the choir, my friend. Natasha is one of my most favorite characters but even without fanboy googles it should be apparent what a great character she is. Yet I have read quite often from some people how useless and pointless she is. So not being able to tussle with some heavy weights suddenly makes you a bad character? Lol, OK.

[JKtheMac]

I don't see the potential in Angela you do, OP.

And I don't think replacing a character struggling to keep a series past 12 issues with a character that can barely hold 6 is a good investment.

Angela had fantastic potential for a brief few issues under Gillen. It felt like she was really going somewhere especially when she donned the golden wedding dress without being aware of Sera's plans. And, although I wasn't a fan of Queen of Hel, I applaud the ending, which pays off that foreshadowing and effectively marries her to Sera, making for a particularity interesting couple gender wise.

I just wish it wasn't all so veiled and deniable. Sera was clearly being written as a transgender character with an understatement that read as positive and affirming. The narrative ignored the classification of her gender in favour of her chosen gender, thematically tying this to Sera's ability to use narrative as a means of changing the world. But this gets so submerged in the story it is possible to not even realise that she is trans, or that they performed an old fashioned secular marriage ceremony at the end of issue seven.

[Johnrevenge]

You are preaching to the choir, my friend. Natasha is one of my most favorite characters but even without fanboy googles it should be apparent what a great character she is. Yet I have read quite often from some people how useless and pointless she is. So not being able to tussle with some heavy weights suddenly makes you a bad character? Lol, OK.

At the contrary. She is still a great character even if she swould have troubles against heavy hitters. Her current ongoing is selling well.

[Michael Watkins]

What is this. I wouldn't even put Angela in like TOP 30 of "Most Iconic/Popular/Liked Female Characters of Marvel" , heck, 40.

While Carol would be on top 3 for sure.

Mind you this is not a personal list. I'm being objective.

So I don't see the point at all. Carol is clearly way more successful than Angela IN. EVERY. WAY. POSSIBLE.

agreed. I only know of Angela because several issues of her book are in the quarter bins at my LCS. i'm not even sure why they incorporated her into Thor's world. it certainly didn't help him.

[Michael Watkins]

in a shallow sense, it should be Carol because she's the most representative of the Marvel Universe. she's real and flawed; like the Universe itself. she's an American in an U.S-centric universe. she has 'Marvel' in her codename. she's been around a long time. she's been an Avenger for a long time in an Avengers-centric universe. you don't even have to like the character to recognize her as important.

[ijacksparrow]

So then a character is only interesting if they have "pew pew" powers? Really?

Natasha is more than "just a spy". She is a character with an interesting background and constantly struggling with her dark past, that is able to find solutions without the use of violence and only counting with her wits. And when she has to fight, she is totally bad-ass.

I agree that Tasha is easily one of the most interesting characters both in Marvel Comics and the Marvel Cinematic Universe. And I actually think that after so many fans screaming at the top of their lungs for a Black Widow film, we might actually get one by Phase 4, but it's crazy how much time they wait for it. Marvel Studios is at an unique position with her that they can make a grea sci-fi spy thriller that could make front to something like James Bond with a budget relatively smaller than their usual productions. There's a demand and people love her. I'd go nuts with Feige announcing that she's getting her own movie for 2018 or something at this SDCC, but I doubt that will happen.

Different times, and total lack of comparative data mean we could argue the toss on that, it would all come down to trusting Diamond figures to actually be reflective of sales for Marvel. But DeConnick's run was a success by any objective measure and that is not supposed to reflect on any previous run.

We clearly have very different tastes in costume design. The Daniel Wonder Woman design is just horrid to my eyes. Overly busy, meaningless features and an attempt to keep naked thighs to please older fans. Nothing about what she is wearing says clothing or uniform. Nothing about the design is clean or representative of character.

I love how Wonder Woman's costume looks just like the Gal Gadot's one, which is one of the very few things that BvS nailed. And I don't understand this obsession with covering character's skins, especially ones like Wonder Woman and Angela. I mean, I don't see anyone complaining about Kratos showing skin, for example. Or Conan. Or Khal Drogo. Hell, add Momoa's Aquaman and Namor to that list too. What's wrong with Wonder Woman thighs? What's wrong with Kratos thighs?

[JKtheMac]

I have nothing against anybody's thighs. I don't trust a costume design that pretends to be a skirt but cuts the hem so that it reveals thigh anyway. It is a cop out. Either go with the old look of gym briefs or go with a skirt. Don't pretend to do one thing but really do the other.