The case for Angela as Marvel's flagship superheroine or why Captain Marvel hasn't catched on so far

[Doctor Know]

Is Carol supposed to be the marvel equivalent of Wonder Woman?

Not really. It's the fans that are trying to equate Diana and Carol. Mostly based on Carol's increased profile on the Avengers titles and all the marketing Marvel dedicates to her since 2012. Carol is the prominent female face for the Avengers nowadays. The same way WW is the prominent female face for the JL.

However, Marvel's investment and constant relaunches for Carol (starting in 2012 we've had 2 under KSD, 1 with the Carol Corps, 1 for ANAD and another one coming this Fall) aren't yielding the equal return.

Looking at the figures from May:
Spider-Gwen leads the pack, followed by Jane Thor, X-23, Gwenpool, Black Widow, Silk, Ms Marvel, Mockingbird and then Captain Marvel.

Marvel should focus all their effort into pushing Kamala Khan more. Kamala has outperformed her idol in sales and reception since her introduction in 2014. Or retool Storm or Sue Storm for a lead role.

[JKtheMac]

Marvel should focus all their effort into pushing Kamala Khan more. Kamala has outperformed her idol in sales and reception since her introduction in 2014. Our retool Storm or Sue Storm for a lead role.

What a pure floppy sales approach to judging effectiveness misses is the demographic issue and the overall reach of a character. Much has been made about the Carol Corps phenomenon, and sometimes people point at the floppy sales and say that obviuosly those readers are not buying the book.

All I can say is we have no idea who is buying the books. For all we know this particular book may be being sold primarily as trades through Amazon, or it may be a big digital success. The important thing for Marvel is can the volume stay in the black and at the same time reach and impress a wider audience. Brand value is often just as important as topping the charts, especially if you have good traction in social media or people are turning to the book on Marvel Unlimited.

We can tell by the churn of titles that Marvel will not let a book that can't pay for itself hang around, but what we can't tell is what metric they use and exactly how much money a title brings in. What we do know is they don't focus on Diamond figures as their chief metric.

[ijacksparrow]

I'm not sure if I follow how making her use a military haircut makes her popular or most of all, an example for young women. Yes, girls can be in the military, but I'd rather see girls getting inspired to become a capable superhero than someone with allusions to the military. It's not like military is something that I feel okay endorsing, let alone do I see the need for superheroes explicitly alluding to military. Most times than not Cap is a critic to America and its army as it is an inspiration, I just don't think that Carol should be the female version of that.

The first Captain Marvel had long hair and it's not like she was less of a capable superhero for that. The way I see it, most of the fans that support the very low sales of her book like her actual look, most of people that don't buy or even are willing to read it via Marvel Unlimited like myself and others, would like to see her with her more iconic longer hair. I still think a combination of her Ms. Marvel costume and her new one is the best way to go. The red and blue screams too AMERICA and the black and yellow color scheme with some red just looked cooler, so yeah. Let's see what they come up with in the movies, completely put off by her in the comics right now and it doesn't look like it's getting better anytime soon.

[JKtheMac]

I'm not sure if I follow how making her use a military haircut makes her popular or most of all, an example for young women. Yes, girls can be in the military, but I'd rather see girls getting inspired to become a capable superhero than someone with allusions to the military. It's not like military is something that I feel okay endorsing, let alone do I see the need for superheroes explicitly alluding to military. Most times than not Cap is a critic to America and its army as it is an inspiration, I just don't think that Carol should be the female version of that.

The first Captain Marvel had long hair and it's not like she was less of a capable superhero for that. The way I see it, most of the fans that support the very low sales of her book like her actual look, most of people that don't buy or even are willing to read it via Marvel Unlimited like myself and others, would like to see her with her more iconic longer hair. I still think a combination of her Ms. Marvel costume and her new one is the best way to go. The red and blue screams too AMERICA and the black and yellow color scheme with some red just looked cooler, so yeah. Let's see what they come up with in the movies, completely put off by her in the comics right now and it doesn't look like it's getting better anytime soon.

I wasn't talking about the haircut (it is actually a style which can be worn down so it isn't actually a short cut anyway) but you seem to be building your own straw-man arguments rather than actually addressing the points I am making.

[Vic Vega]

Its hard to get into a character where everything changes about it every year.

Capatian Marvel gets a new premise and supporting cast with every run.

Did you like the Lightning Squad? Too bad they are gone now.

Did you like Kit? Too bad, she is gone now.

The closest thing she has to an enduring archenemy is Moonstone who is being used in another book.

Editorial needs to take the lead on the character and dictate a defining vision of the character is and have the creatives stick to that.

[Carabas]

Its hard to get into a character where everything changes about it every year.

Capatian Marvel gets a new premise and supporting cast with every run.

I find this to be true for most characters, both at Marvel and DC.

[Holt]

I can see why fans of Carol, Gamora or Black Widow wouldn't want neither of this characters kicked to the curb in order to push Angela so the title of the thread is misguided. It doesn't need to be either/or.

No. Here on these forums you can only like one woman and that is the limit. There can be only one.

[kcekada]

If I was in charge of making Captain Marvel an actually popular book, I guess I'd start with a character make over. I mean, I get why she isn't going with this costume anymore:

But her new costume is just plain boring, with all due respect, while it does look beautiful and pratical, it's just plain boring:

And I get it: it's pratical. I know how majority of her hardcore fans are passionate with it. But listen, it's not working. I think some middleground between her old costume and her new ones is needed. And also, lose the goddamn military cut, bring back her long hair. She isn't a soldier anymore, she's goddamn Captain Marvel and she looks better with the long hair. I don't know who this new writer is, but it doesn't make me interested at all in reading her either.

Preach on!

I've long been a fan of Carol since here days as Ms. Marvel. I liked that outfit -- love the Cockrum design which really pushed her away from the Captain Marvel knock off. Now, I know that swimsuits for heroines are sexist -- but I think something else could have been designed without going to the one shown above. There's really nothing about it that sets it apart from other uniforms. The color palate is so generic -- I mean, it's using Superman's colors. Also agree that the haircut is not doing her any favors in terms of attracting old school fans.

I know her younger fans like the outfit and hairstyle, but I feel they are limiting her audience with these drastic changes.

[kcekada]

My main hope is that if the Captain Marvel gets made -- something new will be designed for the film -- maybe using elements of Captain Mar-Vell's costume or Carol's second costume (loved the bolt which I always though was a sly homage to the original Fawcett version of Captain Marvel). For the most part, though, I don't know that there is a strong enough concept here for a solo film. I think Carol works great as an Avenger and am interested in seeing her in those films, but I do think a Black Widow film has more potential.

[RafDanvers]

Captain Marvel Is very popular among comic book fans. Yes, shes got many cosplays in Cons and is one of the few females with such a long solo run. Her popularity's being increasing year by year, in a very smart way, not in a hurry. CWII is a BIG thing and her profile gets higher and higher as we speak. By her movie, shes gonna be HUGE.

[MyriVerse]

Its hard to get into a character where everything changes about it every year.

Capatian Marvel gets a new premise and supporting cast with every run.

Did you like the Lightning Squad? Too bad they are gone now.

Did you like Kit? Too bad, she is gone now.

The closest thing she has to an enduring archenemy is Moonstone who is being used in another book.

Editorial needs to take the lead on the character and dictate a defining vision of the character is and have the creatives stick to that.

What I like: JUST Carol, fighting MAJOR identifiable villains, with the odd guest appearance now and then. Reed got it right, until the end there.

No Lightning Squads, Banshees, Carol Corps, or anything.

[Icefalcon]

The first Captain Marvel had long hair and it's not like she was less of a capable superhero for that.

Either way you look at it the 1st Captain Marvel was a man!
CMDC.jpg
CMMarvel.jpg

[ijacksparrow]

What I like: JUST Carol, fighting MAJOR identifiable villains, with the odd guest appearance now and then. Reed got it right, until the end there.

No Lightning Squads, Banshees, Carol Corps, or anything.

This makes sense and something that I'd be interested on. Make Carol Corps her real fanbase, make me want be part of that, don't just tell me how everyone loves her in universe. That's basically Lyla Cheney and Dazzler schtick, and it didn't work that well for them either.

[ijacksparrow]

Either way you look at it the 1st Captain Marvel was a man!
CMDC.jpg
CMMarvel.jpg

I like Mar-Vell, I like Billy Batson. But my first and favorite Captain Marvel still is Monica Rambeau. Her costume? Mostly the same from the first Secret Wars days. Still awesome and cooler than Carol's "Steve Rogers" one by the way.

[Holt]

My main hope is that if the Captain Marvel gets made -- something new will be designed for the film -- maybe using elements of Captain Mar-Vell's costume or Carol's second costume (loved the bolt which I always though was a sly homage to the original Fawcett version of Captain Marvel). For the most part, though, I don't know that there is a strong enough concept here for a solo film. I think Carol works great as an Avenger and am interested in seeing her in those films, but I do think a Black Widow film has more potential.

That ship has already sailed.