Traffic Stops

[ouroboros]

You're driving your car and a cop in a car or on a bike pulls you over. If you abide by the depictions seen in movies and television-- which may or may not be informed by real life practice-- you open your driver-side window but don't get out your license and insurance until the cop walks over to you on foot and asks for it.

I may have been pulled over roughly once a year in the past 40 years, and it's my experience that there's never an occasion when the cop will NOT ask for license and insurance.

I'm curious, then, if anyone else does what I do: before the cop even gets out of his car, I get my info out of my wallet or whatever and have it ready for him when he comes up to my window.

I told that to a friend, who says that you should never make any moves in your car whatsoever until the cop approaches and tells you to do something. My friend didn't mention whether he was including the action of sliding down your driver-side window, but I would think that waiting to do that would probably irritate the officer involved. My friend was leery of making any sort of "reaching action" that might be construed as pulling out a weapon.

I'll allow that such a misconstruction is a possibility, but I'm not sure it's any worse a risk to the driver than he takes by waiting until a cop comes into range of your window, and then fumbling around for your wallet.

I've been doing my procedure for many years and though I've been admonished by cops for other irregularities, not one has ever admonished me for having the info ready for him to take. I can't read minds, but I've generally had the impression that on an individual basis the cop wants his job to be done as soon as possible, assuming his reason for stopping you is judicious. Cops probably don't actually appreciate the gesture-- if I've ever been let off with a warning, I don't remember it-- but the only reason for me as a driver to do all this is to avoid any complications.

Another person I talked to said she too had always heard, "Don't make a move until you're told to do so."

What is the majority experience / opinion here?

[GreenLanternRanger]

I've only been pulled over twice, the first time the officer was abit rude but just let me off with a warning. The second time I was rushing home from the movie to my house so I could use the restroom as the one at the theatre had a long line, the cop who stopped me that time was super polite and understood my predicament and again just let me off with a warning. So i've been pretty lucky I guess.

[ouroboros]

I've only been pulled over twice, the first time the officer was abit rude but just let me off with a warning. The second time I was rushing home from my the movie to my house so I could use the restroom as the one at the theatre had a long line, the cop who stopped me that time was super polite and understood my predicament and again just let me off with a warning. So i've been pretty lucky I guess.

But did the officers ask for your info first, in order to check you out?

[WestPhillyPunisher]

I've never been pulled over, but if that were to happen, I'd make like a statue and freeze in place until I'm instructed to retrieve my insurance and registration from the glove box for the officer to see. Since I'm black, I can't afford to do anything even remotely out of place, the reasons for that are all too obvious to anyone who's followed the news over the last few years.

[GreenLanternRanger]

But did the officers ask for your info first, in order to check you out?

Of course. I showed them my liscense and my insurance.

[Shawn Hopkins]

You're driving your car and a cop in a car or on a bike pulls you over. If you abide by the depictions seen in movies and television-- which may or may not be informed by real life practice-- you open your driver-side window but don't get out your license and insurance until the cop walks over to you on foot and asks for it.

I may have been pulled over roughly once a year in the past 40 years, and it's my experience that there's never an occasion when the cop will NOT ask for license and insurance.

I'm curious, then, if anyone else does what I do: before the cop even gets out of his car, I get my info out of my wallet or whatever and have it ready for him when he comes up to my window.

I told that to a friend, who says that you should never make any moves in your car whatsoever until the cop approaches and tells you to do something. My friend didn't mention whether he was including the action of sliding down your driver-side window, but I would think that waiting to do that would probably irritate the officer involved. My friend was leery of making any sort of "reaching action" that might be construed as pulling out a weapon.

I'll allow that such a misconstruction is a possibility, but I'm not sure it's any worse a risk to the driver than he takes by waiting until a cop comes into range of your window, and then fumbling around for your wallet.

I've been doing my procedure for many years and though I've been admonished by cops for other irregularities, not one has ever admonished me for having the info ready for him to take. I can't read minds, but I've generally had the impression that on an individual basis the cop wants his job to be done as soon as possible, assuming his reason for stopping you is judicious. Cops probably don't actually appreciate the gesture-- if I've ever been let off with a warning, I don't remember it-- but the only reason for me as a driver to do all this is to avoid any complications.

Another person I talked to said she too had always heard, "Don't make a move until you're told to do so."

What is the majority experience / opinion here?

You white? Then it's fine. If you're not the Caucasian persuasion, though, that ****'ll get you killed.

I'm a white male so I just do whatever I want, grab stuff willy-nilly, even argue with the police. Always goes pretty well. They've only ticketed me for clear violations, and they've also let me go for stuff I should have gotten tickets for. One time I complained so much the cop let me drive off on expired tags without impounding my car. And I waited like two weeks after that to get them fixed!

[numberthirty]

Always wait until I have been asked to do something before doing it in front of an officer.

Dealt with enough "Probably Not Entirely Above Board" stuff that I don't want to throw "This is what I think you might have done while I was walking up here." into the mix.

[ouroboros]

You white? Then it's fine. If you're not the Caucasian persuasion, though, that ****'ll get you killed.

I'm a white male so I just do whatever I want, grab stuff willy-nilly, even argue with the police. Always goes pretty well. They've only ticketed me for clear violations, and they've also let me go for stuff I should have gotten tickets for. One time I complained so much the cop let me drive off on expired tags without impounding my car. And I waited like two weeks after that to get them fixed!

Well, since I'm white and I said above that I rarely if ever got out of a ticket-- whether I was curt or polite, whether I had my papers ready or not-- I would suggest that any ease you've had with traffic cops in your location(s) may have less to do with your ethnicity or more to do with the degree to which the cops are pressured to maintain a quota of tickets by their money-grubbing governmental bosses.

[JediMindTrick]

Well, since I'm white and I said above that I rarely if ever got out of a ticket-- whether I was curt or polite, whether I had my papers ready or not-- I would suggest that any ease you've had with traffic cops in your location(s) may have less to do with your ethnicity or more to do with the degree to which the cops are pressured to maintain a quota of tickets by their money-grubbing governmental bosses.

Most cops will tell you pretty much say the same thing: the cop has already had made up their mind on whether or not you get a ticket before they even talk to you. Most traffic stops come down to one of three things: 1) Actual enforcement of the violation because they have to write so many tickets, aka quota, 2) Fishing trip for something more serious like a drunk driver. In these cases if your license / insurance are good, your sober, and you aren't wanted you go with a warning because the officer is looking for the DUI or more serious violation, not some minor violation, 3) Courtesy notification of a headlight / taillight / equipment malfunction. Here again you almost always get a warning if everything else about you checks out.

There is a big HOWEVER though they say. If you act like a complete jerk to the officer and show contempt to the officer or the violation you may well talk yourself into a ticket. Basically they say its very difficult to talk yourself out of a ticket but easy to talk yourself into one where the officer had originally intended to give you a warning. This was explained to me in a way that makes sense for those saying cops shouldn't be criminalizing attitude: the goal of traffic enforcement (beyond revenue) is to encourage better driving behavior in the future and if your attitude shows complete contempt and non chalance for the violation the cop will give a ticket since that apparently is needed to encourage better driving behavior.

[Shawn Hopkins]

Well, since I'm white and I said above that I rarely if ever got out of a ticket-- whether I was curt or polite, whether I had my papers ready or not-- I would suggest that any ease you've had with traffic cops in your location(s) may have less to do with your ethnicity or more to do with the degree to which the cops are pressured to maintain a quota of tickets by their money-grubbing governmental bosses.

The town I live in is a well-known speed trap. Try again.

And it's not about if you can get out of a ticket. Half of the tickets Philando Castile got were thrown out because they were bogus charges based on racial profiling stops. It's about how careful you have to act to avoid bad consequences when you get stopped.

[JediMindTrick]

The town I live in is a well-known speed trap. Try again.

And it's not about if you can get out of a ticket. Half of the tickets Philando Castile got were thrown out because they were bogus charges based on racial profiling stops. It's about how careful you have to act to avoid bad consequences when you get stopped.

Do you have evidence of this or are you just making up stuff?

Here is a link to his history of traffic offenses and a chart is included that shows the dates of some of his offenses. http://heavy.com/news/2016/07/philan...nolds-diamond/ What I see is a long list of plea bargains: plead to this charge and we'll drop this charge. This is especially apparent when he had multiple citations from the same stop / date. Its also very common when someone racks up a bunch of similar charges over a short period, for instance if you get a lot of driving with an invalid license charges (one of Castile's most common charges) its common for prosecutors to offer a deal where they'll drop a bunch of them if he pleads to one. He also got a lot of tickets that are known as fix it / show proof tickets in my states for equipment or insurance. Where I live some agencies will give citations for an equipment violation but if you show proof that you fixed said violation within 7 days you get the ticket dismissed. Or in the case of insurance tickets where you didn't have proof in your car you will be cited but if you bring proof to the court showing you did in fact have insurance the ticket is dismissed.

[numberthirty]

The town I live in is a well-known speed trap. Try again.

And it's not about if you can get out of a ticket. Half of the tickets Philando Castile got were thrown out because they were bogus charges based on racial profiling stops. It's about how careful you have to act to avoid bad consequences when you get stopped.

If you are convicted more than five times of driving after a revocation, it's a different picture.

[Shawn Hopkins]

Do you have evidence of this or are you just making up stuff?

Here is a link to his history of traffic offenses and a chart is included that shows the dates of some of his offenses. http://heavy.com/news/2016/07/philan...nolds-diamond/ What I see is a long list of plea bargains: plead to this charge and we'll drop this charge. This is especially apparent when he had multiple citations from the same stop / date. Its also very common when someone racks up a bunch of similar charges over a short period, for instance if you get a lot of driving with an invalid license charges (one of Castile's most common charges) its common for prosecutors to offer a deal where they'll drop a bunch of them if he pleads to one. He also got a lot of tickets that are known as fix it / show proof tickets in my states for equipment or insurance. Where I live some agencies will give citations for an equipment violation but if you show proof that you fixed said violation within 7 days you get the ticket dismissed. Or in the case of insurance tickets where you didn't have proof in your car you will be cited but if you bring proof to the court showing you did in fact have insurance the ticket is dismissed.

Plea bargain never appears in that text, only in your imagination. Nineteen are outright dismissed. There are very few actual moving violations in there, which tends to indicate police found things to charge him with AFTER stopping him. So many stops of this type indicates racial profiling.

[ouroboros]

Most cops will tell you pretty much say the same thing: the cop has already had made up their mind on whether or not you get a ticket before they even talk to you. Most traffic stops come down to one of three things: 1) Actual enforcement of the violation because they have to write so many tickets, aka quota, 2) Fishing trip for something more serious like a drunk driver. In these cases if your license / insurance are good, your sober, and you aren't wanted you go with a warning because the officer is looking for the DUI or more serious violation, not some minor violation, 3) Courtesy notification of a headlight / taillight / equipment malfunction. Here again you almost always get a warning if everything else about you checks out.

There is a big HOWEVER though they say. If you act like a complete jerk to the officer and show contempt to the officer or the violation you may well talk yourself into a ticket. Basically they say its very difficult to talk yourself out of a ticket but easy to talk yourself into one where the officer had originally intended to give you a warning. This was explained to me in a way that makes sense for those saying cops shouldn't be criminalizing attitude: the goal of traffic enforcement (beyond revenue) is to encourage better driving behavior in the future and if your attitude shows complete contempt and non chalance for the violation the cop will give a ticket since that apparently is needed to encourage better driving behavior.

Thanks for an intelligent post.

[ouroboros]

The town I live in is a well-known speed trap. Try again.

And it's not about if you can get out of a ticket. Half of the tickets Philando Castile got were thrown out because they were bogus charges based on racial profiling stops. It's about how careful you have to act to avoid bad consequences when you get stopped.

It's not for me to explain how you get out of tickets in your own stomping-grounds. If you want to believe it's only because of your ethnicity, then you certainly can believe that. I'm giving you counter-evidence to your first post: white guys don't always get out of tickets on the spot. You're free to think that there's some variable I've left out and I can think the same of your account.

Nobody was talking about tickets being thrown out later; only with the practicalities of dealing with officers during the stop. And I thought you were saying one didn't always have to be careful, since you could get away with arguing-- which I doubt works very often with any ethnicity.