What is the origin of Miles Morales in the Marvel Prime Universe (Earth 616)?

[Johnatellodi]

Yes, I do. Personally, I would also take this time to separate his origin further from Spider-Man, so that he fits in his own little place, rather than have it be someone who wants to recreate Spider-Man. You know, allow him to get his powers on his own terms, not connected from Peter, if that makes sense, despite the basics being similar. I'd probably find a way to incorporate his Father's S.H.I.E.L.D background in his origin somehow.

I agree that they should incorporate miles origin into the 616 universe, but I've always liked the fact that Miles was inspired by Peter. To me that feels very relatable.

I'd even say I could get behind a character(Miles) who hopped into the Marvel 616 universe and tries to keep up. Haven't we all dreamt of that? But the inconsistencies in his origin and supporting cast stretch too far for this reader.

[JediKage]

I don't think its impossible. Heroes come back from Death and go missing all the time. Peter didn't quite stay dead in Ultimate Verse either. So have him "assumed dead" for 6 months or whatever.

[ijacksparrow]

I don't think its impossible. Heroes come back from Death and go missing all the time. Peter didn't quite stay dead in Ultimate Verse either. So have him "assumed dead" for 6 months or whatever.

I'm completely against that. Peter was not just dead in the Ultimate Universe. He had his secret identity outed. I would like to see the whole "Peter Parker is dead and he was Spider-Man" and Miles taking over obliterated together with the Ultimate Universe. No more replacing heroes after dead ones. I'd like to see Marvel adapting Miles origin around Earth 616's and Spider-Man's continuity, not the other way around.

[LASERlips]

Readers of Miles' books already know where he came from. Yes, some in-story acknowledgment of Miles' memories would be nice, but comic book readers and fans have dealt with stranger things than a character coming over from another universe.

Potential new readers, on the other hand...well, they're either going to be intimidated by continuity so some intern probably put together that video as a welcome mat. Or, they'll become truly interested, in which they'll quickly learn how crazy comics can be when they explore Miles' journey.

Speaking of the video, as I've pointed out before, it still has Ultimate in it. It features an image of Ultimate May and Ultimate Gwen giving Miles the web-shooters. It's not the beginning of the 616-ification of Miles. It's a quick, slapped together blurb for non-readers who are curious about Miles.

Miles does have a (616?) origin. He is a refugee from another Universe.

In my mind, Whether or not this is actually 616? And/or does 616 still exist? Are more pertinent questions.

For the Time being I am continuing to call this Universe 616 for the sake of convenience. Does anybody know if Marvel is calling this 616? Or is that something only Nerds like myself could possibly care about?

It's a very very close recreation of 616. 616 and 1610 collided and were destroyed. There are a couple small differences, such as Miles and his supporting cast being there, and the existence of a made-up element or particle that didn't exist before Secret Wars (see Ultimates #1).

And yes, Miles is a refugee from another universe. Ain't nothing wrong with that!

[ijacksparrow]

It's way too convoluted to keep his Ultimate Universe origin canon. Especially if he doesn't acknowledge it, and if he acknowledges it, then it becomes completely unfriendly to new readers and unintelligible with Earth 616's context. I get the old fans attachment to the previous stories, but it's a sacrifice that they need to start getting ready to make so the character can have a healthy lifespan. The stories that happened in the Ultimate Universe DID happened. In the Ultimate Universe. But not in the Marvel Prime Universe (Earth 616). Over complicating his origin story will only hold the character back, it is holding him back already, so hopefully their old readers will get and that they'll have to accept some changes in his origin when the time comes. And it will come.

[Greekfire13]

It's way too convoluted to keep his Ultimate Universe origin canon. Especially if he doesn't acknowledge it, and if he acknowledges it, then it becomes completely unfriendly to new readers and unintelligible with Earth 616's context. I get the old fans attachment to the previous stories, but it's a sacrifice that they need to start getting ready to make so the character can have a healthy lifespan. The stories that happened in the Ultimate Universe DID happened. In the Ultimate Universe. But not in the Marvel Prime Universe (Earth 616). Over complicating his origin story will only hold the character back, it is holding him back already, so hopefully their old readers will get and that they'll have to accept some changes in his origin when the time comes. And it will come.

But the Marvel Prime Universe isn't the 616 as it was before. Brevoort has emphasized this many times. When secret wars happened both the 1610 and 616 universes were destroyed. When the Marvel Prime Universe was restored it was restored with aspects of other universes now included within it. Things that did not exist in the 616 before now all of a sudden do in the Marvel Prime Universe.

Miles is a refugee from a dead universe. Just because Bendis doesn't want to tell a fish out of water story doesn't mean that some writer can't come back later and tell it. Eventually there may be a mini series for Miles that addresses how he came to grips with his situation during the first 8 months of his time in the Marvel Prime Universe. Miles is a teenager who has his family, his friends, and his school. He's suffered loss, sure, but for most part everybody that's ever really meant something to him from the ultimate universe survived secret wars and lives on in the marvel prime universe.

Miles is from the UU so a lot of heroes were already dead before secret wars and the earth there had already been threatened with destruction prior to Secret Wars. Therefore Miles isn't foreign to the loss of life. Again he has his family, his friends, his mother even and a world in far better shape than the one he remembers. So in the end how much did Miles truly lose? Yes it would hurt for him at first but honestly he's been given a second chance so to speak in this Marvel Prime Universe. In a better world and a better place.

There are much worse things continuity wise in comics. It's not like Miles will keep mentioning the ultimate universe down the line. Once he puts it to bed he puts it to bed. So once new readers come aboard the way I see it as is this. They have two choices. Either read it as though he's a teenager who survived the end of his world and now has a second chance to live out his life in a better world(Marvel Prime). Or they can accept the very basics like what is detailed about him on the first page of each of his comics. If they're new readers chances are they will be okay with the latter. Honestly, if continuity scares the new readers then they don't need to know anything more than they have to in order for them to follow the story. If continutity doesn't scare them and they want a more in depth explanation of his origins and why Miles is the way he is then they can start by reading his first couple volumes and Secret Wars first.

Miles' backstory is only as complicated as you make it out to be. You see new readers often times only need to know what's prevalent to the story. It only gets complicated to them when you go into detailed specifics that have no bearing on the story in mind.

[HereNThere]

While I understand why you'd want something like that, I'd say it's kind of too late for that. I really like how there's potential of telling a cautionary tale about his Uncle Aaron with Miles origin tho. There's potential for a Spider character that had the opposite of an Uncle Ben figure and decided to use his powers for good. The best way I could see that playing out is having Miles looking up to his Uncle Aaron even more than his father or his mother, but getting disgusted and gutted when he learns about his criminal ways. Somehow, that would put his family in danger and become the reason why he decides to use his powers for good. The whole bitten by a spider thing and using Spider-Man's name has already been established tho, and same goes for the "under the guidance of Peter Parker" thing, which I have no problems with.

I like the Uncle Aaron aspect as well, I'd just like to squeeze his dad's status in there somehow. I don't mind the Peter Parker guidance at all. The two have great chemistry, I just want the reason for Miles' abilities to be different. Not Green Goblin wanted to recreate the Spider that made Peter Spider-Man.

[Huntsman Spider]

I'm not opposed to OMD as much as my fellow Spider-Man fans, I'm actually ok with Marvel ending the marriage. With that said, I completely agree that it was contrived as hell, and I'm still waiting for an epic storyline with Peter beating the crap out of Mephisto and knowing what happened to him. I think that would be a nice compromise between old and new fans of Spider-Man without really bringing the marriage back, and I actually have hopes that's what Clone Conspiracy is actually about.

With that said, I really like where you're going with the whole Uncle Aarong angle here. And I actually like the idea of Peter guiding Miles, that's an angle that I'd love to see Marvel playing with. You see, you don't need to make Miles overpowered as hell to make me care about him, Marvel and Bendis. You just need to make him a compelling character. I don't need him to be "the best Spider-Man ever that beats Blackheart when not even the Avengers and Spider-Man couldn't", but a guy with a reason for doing what he does. Right now, he doesn't have a reason to be Spider-Man and risk his life other than Spider-Man's approval, and that's just too little reasoning. Spider-Man shouldn't never be just about "how cool it is to be Spider-Man" opposed to be a regular kid, or how Spidey is the best of all and the most overpowered of all with an ex machina venom sting to save the day and that's it. He is about power and responsibility, and how to juggle all of that with his personal life. Linking his origin to the whole Uncle Aaron thing gives him reasoning to do what he does, and that's way more than Marvel Comics has done for explaining why Miles does what he does lately.

I'm glad you like my take, even if it's mostly just condensing Zauri's ideas for Miles's origin in the main MU. As for OMD, while I'll cop to being a die-hard Peter/MJ shipper, I'd have been perfectly fine with them just divorcing like any other couple whose marriage gets strained to the breaking point by circumstances not necessarily in either spouse's control. It would hurt, but it'd be a lot better than having it happen through the most absolutely irresponsible thing anybody can do in any fiction, which is to make a pact with the Devil or the equivalent thereof. If The Clone Conspiracy ends with Peter realizing what really happened and beating Mephisto to a pulp and taking back whatever fragment of his soul Mephisto stole from him when he made that deal, I'd be fine enough with that. Even if it doesn't lead to Peter and Mary Jane getting back together, I'd content myself with just the possibility of them reconciling and putting aside the bitterness that built up between them after Superior Spider-Man, as displayed through much of the just-concluded "Power Play" arc.

I like the Uncle Aaron aspect as well, I'd just like to squeeze his dad's status in there somehow. I don't mind the Peter Parker guidance at all. The two have great chemistry, I just want the reason for Miles' abilities to be different. Not Green Goblin wanted to recreate the Spider that made Peter Spider-Man.

Hmm, could be somebody besides Norman Osborn, like maybe someone who's extensively studied Spider-Man's DNA and what-not. Hell, make Miles's powers a byproduct of the Jackal's experiments with Spider-Man's DNA, but tweaked because of Miles's unique DNA interacting with the mutagenic enzymes that triggered Peter's powers. (Nothing to make Miles "special," per se, just that every human being has unique DNA and as seen many times in real life, two humans' physiologies can react wildly differently to the same substance.)

[Cosmic Spider]

I like that idea. Cascading collapse of the Multiverse caused by the metaphysical ripples from rewriting reality and history so that Peter and Mary Jane never got married. That would be doable, if Marvel was willing to commit to the realization that OMD was a very bad idea, a very bad thing that never should have been done or even conceived in the first place. As for the actual topic, I like Zauri's ideas for reworking Miles's origin now that he's been worked into the fabric of the main Marvel Universe, whether it's called 616 or "Prime." Having Uncle Aaron as a reverse Uncle Ben whose criminality and the danger it brings to Miles's family causes Miles to don the webs to stop him, using a Spider-Man disguise so Aaron will think it's just Spider-Man busting criminals as usual and have no reason to go after Miles's family in retaliation would be a good way of handling his backstory. Then Peter could hear about "Spider-Man" busting Aaron, check him out to see if he's not another villainous impostor who's gonna ruin his reputation, and upon learning Miles's good nature and intentions, decides it would be best to equip and guide Miles himself, nurturing a worthy possible successor should he kick the bucket from all the dangerous villains and situations he's been up against.

One of these days I might look up or start a thread where we discuss WHY OMD happened(In Universe), How it affects the present MARVEL Universe and ideas for resolving the story. My own ideas lean heavily on the mythology of The Great Weaver/The Other as presented by JMS during his run and where those events might have led Peter in the long term.

Readers of Miles' books already know where he came from. Yes, some in-story acknowledgment of Miles' memories would be nice, but comic book readers and fans have dealt with stranger things than a character coming over from another universe.

It's a very very close recreation of 616. 616 and 1610 collided and were destroyed. There are a couple small differences, such as Miles and his supporting cast being there, and the existence of a made-up element or particle that didn't exist before Secret Wars (see Ultimates #1).

And yes, Miles is a refugee from another universe. Ain't nothing wrong with that!

I am in agreement with you. I feel that Miles Origin story is just fine as it is and voted for that option. The Old MU had a number of characters that were Space-time or Dimensionally displaced. Howard the Duck, Cable, Bishop, And Rachel Grey come easily to mind. I am sure there are others.

However, The task of successfully integrating Miles into the MPU is an interesting challenge.

I would start by drawing a connection between Peter/Miles and Mephisto/Blackheart.

OMD happened because Mephisto considered Peter to be dangerous to himself in some way. Mephisto used trickery to neutralize Peter. It sticks in my craw to admit how thoroughly Mephisto defeated Peter. A resounding victory for Mephisto that poisons the Legend and character of The Amazing Spider-man to this very day.

It is interesting that soon after Miles(Peters "Heir") took up residency in the same Universe as Peter He encountered Blackheart(Mephisto's Son/Heir). Apparently, Miles' Venom Blast was the only effective weapon against Blackheart.

Something in the Nature of the Spiders represents a danger to the forces of Chaos and Anarchy represented by Mephisto and Blackheart.

Second, I would borrow; and adapt elements of JMS' "Happy Birthday", Parts I,II and III(ASM#498-500). In that Story Peter was Literally knocked out of Reality. The only way for Doctor Strange to save Peter was to reweave Him into his own timeline. Peter had to relive and refight all of his battles from the time that He had been bitten by the Spider. An intense Spiritual Battle. Peter wasn't battling for His life; He was fighting for His very existence. If Peter had failed; He would have been unwoven from the history of his World. He would have never existed.

Third, I would have Blackheart deliberately cast Miles out of Reality; A task made easier by the fact that Miles is an outsider; An invasive element if you will. At this point a powerful Sorceror/Shaman/Witch would have to help Weave Miles into the MPU. I would have a 6-12 issue Mini series which would have Miles remembering His life and struggles while "Reliving" a more MPU compatible version of His life. This is where I would make changes if necessary. For instance, I have always believed that killing off Uncle Aaron was a mistake by Bendis. This time, Guided by His memories and experience of His other life; Miles might be able to prevent Aaron's death. I would also have ULTIMATE Jessica Drew reborn as a Gender Inverted Clone of Miles, Because I thought She was a very interesting character. She would have a different name of course.

In the end Miles would be reborn as a "Naturalized" Citizen of the MPU. He would possess two sets of equally real memories; Preserving His past continuity while giving Him a new one.

[Cosmic Spider]

Hmm, could be somebody besides Norman Osborn, like maybe someone who's extensively studied Spider-Man's DNA and what-not. Hell, make Miles's powers a byproduct of the Jackal's experiments with Spider-Man's DNA, but tweaked because of Miles's unique DNA interacting with the mutagenic enzymes that triggered Peter's powers. (Nothing to make Miles "special," per se, just that every human being has unique DNA and as seen many times in real life, two humans' physiologies can react wildly differently to the same substance.)

I like this idea. It would nicely weave Miles into the fabric of the MPU.

One of the things I would do is fine tune Miles powers. Get rid of the Venom Blast and Invisibility and give Him some other unique abilities. Imagine if Miles had Setae like a spider and could sense changes in air pressure and "taste" chemical compositions like a real Spider does. His own unique Spider-Sense. He would be able to effectively "see" in the dark and track people by taste/scent. Similar to Daredevil in some ways.

[Huntsman Spider]

Those are some pretty interesting ideas, Cosmic Spider. Technically, the invisibility is just camouflage like some spider species are known to do and the Venom Blast/Strike is an outgrowth of the bioelectric nature of certain aspects of Spider-Man's powers, particularly the wall-crawling and the ability to sense certain specific kinds of electromagnetic frequencies via the spider-sense. What I'd do with the Venom Blast/Strike is simply not make it the all-solving hammer that Bendis treats it as, that there are some people who will at most be slowed down by it, but not completely stopped or instantly knocked out. It can still play havoc on an unshielded electronic/electrical system or on someone insufficiently insulated, but the real reason it would work at all is that it messes with the central nervous system, which is something even the strongest and most durable of beings would logically have a hard time against. Again, it wouldn't be an instant KO for that many of them, but it might slow them down for a few seconds, and given the speed and agility of Spider-Men, a few seconds would be all Miles would need. The point of it would be that it works best as a force-multiplier like knuckle dusters or pneumatic gauntlets, enhancing Miles's strikes to the point he can do real damage to otherwise more powerful beings, but he'll still have to keep hammering at them until they fall down, not just tag them once and be done with it.

[Cosmic Spider]

Those are some pretty interesting ideas, Cosmic Spider. Technically, the invisibility is just camouflage like some spider species are known to do and the Venom Blast/Strike is an outgrowth of the bioelectric nature of certain aspects of Spider-Man's powers, particularly the wall-crawling and the ability to sense certain specific kinds of electromagnetic frequencies via the spider-sense. What I'd do with the Venom Blast/Strike is simply not make it the all-solving hammer that Bendis treats it as, that there are some people who will at most be slowed down by it, but not completely stopped or instantly knocked out. It can still play havoc on an unshielded electronic/electrical system or on someone insufficiently insulated, but the real reason it would work at all is that it messes with the central nervous system, which is something even the strongest and most durable of beings would logically have a hard time against. Again, it wouldn't be an instant KO for that many of them, but it might slow them down for a few seconds, and given the speed and agility of Spider-Men, a few seconds would be all Miles would need. The point of it would be that it works best as a force-multiplier like knuckle dusters or pneumatic gauntlets, enhancing Miles's strikes to the point he can do real damage to otherwise more powerful beings, but he'll still have to keep hammering at them until they fall down, not just tag them once and be done with it.

The Invisibility bothers me the most. There isn't any evidence to suggest that Miles has chromatophores nor any explanation as to how his costume "disappears". Now If Marvel provided a simple explanation such as: "Miles can change his skin color like many spiders can, and, oh yeah, Miles costume was produced by SHIELD out of Fantastic Unstable Pymple Parkercles and can therefore change color to match Miles' skin."; Yeah, I'd be happy with it.

The Venom blast would be far more acceptable if Bendis balanced it the way you have suggested above.

[jackolover]

I like that idea. Cascading collapse of the Multiverse caused by the metaphysical ripples from rewriting reality and history so that Peter and Mary Jane never got married. That would be doable, if Marvel was willing to commit to the realization that OMD was a very bad idea, a very bad thing that never should have been done or even conceived in the first place. As for the actual topic, I like Zauri's ideas for reworking Miles's origin now that he's been worked into the fabric of the main Marvel Universe, whether it's called 616 or "Prime." Having Uncle Aaron as a reverse Uncle Ben whose criminality and the danger it brings to Miles's family causes Miles to don the webs to stop him, using a Spider-Man disguise so Aaron will think it's just Spider-Man busting criminals as usual and have no reason to go after Miles's family in retaliation would be a good way of handling his backstory. Then Peter could hear about "Spider-Man" busting Aaron, check him out to see if he's not another villainous impostor who's gonna ruin his reputation, and upon learning Miles's good nature and intentions, decides it would be best to equip and guide Miles himself, nurturing a worthy possible successor should he kick the bucket from all the dangerous villains and situations he's been up against.

I once saw a movie, (may have been real life), where an uncle picked up a boy at a station, (call it kidnapping) and showed the nephew his tacky side of life, to which the nephew was attracted. What if Miles after getting his powers, was to get swiped by his uncle and Miles did something that caused his uncle to die. Then he would be consumed with how that tacky life was the cause of his uncles death and he'd never do that again, and vow to clean up that tacky side that caused his uncles death, not believe his father that his uncle was bad, and be distanced from his family because they derided the uncle as a criminal.

[Huntsman Spider]

The Invisibility bothers me the most. There isn't any evidence to suggest that Miles has chromatophores nor any explanation as to how his costume "disappears". Now If Marvel provided a simple explanation such as: "Miles can change his skin color like many spiders can, and, oh yeah, Miles costume was produced by SHIELD out of Fantastic Unstable Pymple Parkercles and can therefore change color to match Miles' skin."; Yeah, I'd be happy with it.

The Venom blast would be far more acceptable if Bendis balanced it the way you have suggested above.

With the invisibility/camouflage, I'd theorize he secretes an invisible, odorless chemical from his pores that covers his skin and whatever's directly touching said skin like a very thin film and changes the color to match his surroundings.

I once saw a movie, (may have been real life), where an uncle picked up a boy at a station, (call it kidnapping) and showed the nephew his tacky side of life, to which the nephew was attracted. What if Miles after getting his powers, was to get swiped by his uncle and Miles did something that caused his uncle to die. Then he would be consumed with how that tacky life was the cause of his uncles death and he'd never do that again, and vow to clean up that tacky side that caused his uncles death, not believe his father that his uncle was bad, and be distanced from his family because they derided the uncle as a criminal.

Hmm, that could be an interesting twist, too.

[xpyred]

The uncle Aaron portion of Miles' origin can be explained easily. It can be tweaked that this all still occurred in the 616. Aaron purchased the Prowler identity from Roderick Kingsley. That explains why Aaron was the prowler. the part about Oz industries and what not...yeah Bendis wont be able to explain that.