What the shock is happening between Marvel and Fox?

[ijacksparrow]

Because you know, something is happening. When I saw Variety and all the trades reporting I didn't mind much, because Singer's X-Men aren't really the X-Men, but then I saw this:

http://marvel.com/news/tv/26440/fox_...venture_series

And more, I saw this:

https://twitter.com/AgentM/status/752961535748796416

And if you're asking yourself "why" I'm thinking this and why this is such a big deal, here it is: Marvel doesn't talk about anything Fox related. Like, they never talk about anything Fox related on their official channels. They haven't been doing that for years now. They always had a great relationship with Sony, that was the very origin of Spider-Man going back to Marvel Studios and the consequence was the historical first appearing of Spider-Man in Captain America: Civil War.

Trust me, something is happening here, ladies and gentlemen. What, I'm not sure. Is it the Fantastic Four? Is it Silver Surfer, Galactus and the cosmic side that Fox owns? Is it Doom? Is it EVERYTHING?

I don't know. But our Lord and Savior Kevin Feige works in mysterious ways. And may He have mercy on us all, save the X-Men, the Fantastic Four and the Bendisversication of the Marvel Comics Universe.

[dragonmp93]

Probably they are getting the FF back.

[ijacksparrow]

Probably they are getting the FF back.

That would be one hell of a start, but with the X-Men having a very subpar box office run and this tv show being a partnership between Marvel AND Fox (notice how it mention Marvel AND Fox, not really Marvel TV, which is a whole different division), could it be that this involves the X-Men as well? I mean, it's clear that the Bryan Singer formula of making X-Men through the decades is not working, and while Deadpool is edgy and rated r as hell, it'd smoothly fit within the MCU. I might be seeing too much into this, but I'm starting to think that this is it, Marvel and Fox are joining forces in a deal similar with what Marvel has for Spider-Man. If we could keep Kinberg and Singer focused on the tv side and Fox just let Kevin Feige do his thing with the Fantastic a Four and the X-Men, imagine how glorious it could be!

With that said, I think it's better to hope for a Fantastic Four announcement for Phase 4 now on SDCC or next year, because Wolverine is still happening. WITH THAT SAID, Fox should just go for it and stop everything they are doing Marvel related and just hand it over to Marvel Studios. Yeah, make your Hugh Jackman swan song, but nobody cares about an Apocalypse sequel or New Mutants if that it's confined within the Foxverse. Bring Deadpool, the X-Men and the Fantastic Four to the MCU, Fox. C'mon!

[DurararaFTW]

That would be one hell of a start, but with the X-Men having a very subpar box office run and this tv show being a partnership between Marvel AND Fox (notice how it mention Marvel AND Fox, not really Marvel TV, which is a whole different division),

Days of Future Past and Deadpool did really well box office wise. Apocalypse didn't do as well, but hardly so catastrophically that they'd feel compelled to give up.

could it be that this involves the X-Men as well? I mean, it's clear that the Bryan Singer formula of making X-Men through the decades is not working, and while Deadpool is edgy and rated r as hell, it'd smoothly fit within the MCU.

Deadpool fits into MCU just as well as the second Spider-Man, they'd still need to reboot him and his supporting cast. Which would be a waste.

With that said, I think it's better to hope for a Fantastic Four announcement for Phase 4 now on SDCC or next year, because Wolverine is still happening. WITH THAT SAID, Fox should just go for it and stop everything they are doing Marvel related and just hand it over to Marvel Studios. Yeah, make your Hugh Jackman swan song, but nobody cares about an Apocalypse sequel or New Mutants if that it's confined within the Foxverse. Bring Deadpool, the X-Men and the Fantastic Four to the MCU, Fox. C'mon!

The X-Men absolutely do not fit into the MCU. Singer has his problems but at least he created a world where mutants are hated and feared. Mutants aren't a presence in MCU, introducing them at this point means the social aspect of the franchise would be gone. Magneto being active since WWII would be gone, Wolverine, Sabretooth, Mystique, Mr Sinister and Apocalypse's long histories as well. Hard to see the Hellfire Club be created in the 21st century too. Also Age of Ultron and Civil War didn't really give me the impression that we needed more superheroes in MCU, they got a pretty big cast as it is. In short the downsides far outweigh the upsides if you ask me.

[dragonmp93]

That would be one hell of a start, but with the X-Men having a very subpar box office run and this tv show being a partnership between Marvel AND Fox (notice how it mention Marvel AND Fox, not really Marvel TV, which is a whole different division), could it be that this involves the X-Men as well? I mean, it's clear that the Bryan Singer formula of making X-Men through the decades is not working, and while Deadpool is edgy and rated r as hell, it'd smoothly fit within the MCU. I might be seeing too much into this, but I'm starting to think that this is it, Marvel and Fox are joining forces in a deal similar with what Marvel has for Spider-Man. If we could keep Kinberg and Singer focused on the tv side and Fox just let Kevin Feige do his thing with the Fantastic a Four and the X-Men, imagine how glorious it could be!

With that said, I think it's better to hope for a Fantastic Four announcement for Phase 4 now on SDCC or next year, because Wolverine is still happening. WITH THAT SAID, Fox should just go for it and stop everything they are doing Marvel related and just hand it over to Marvel Studios. Yeah, make your Hugh Jackman swan song, but nobody cares about an Apocalypse sequel or New Mutants if that it's confined within the Foxverse. Bring Deadpool, the X-Men and the Fantastic Four to the MCU, Fox. C'mon!

Really ?, because unlike DC, FOX hasnt kicked anyone, not even as scapegoat, and Singer said that he was leaving even before Apocalypse was screened for critics.

[ijacksparrow]

Days of Future Past and Deadpool did really well box office wise. Apocalypse didn't do as well, but hardly so catastrophically that they'd feel compelled to give up.

I follow how box office works quite closely, and no, DoFP wasn't the big hit they were hoping for. It was big, but not for a film they invested $250m plus marketing. Deadpool in the other hand is spectacular and made them a lot of money. Tim Miller is friends with Kevin Feige AND the Russo Brothers. And with that said...

Deadpool fits into MCU just as well as the second Spider-Man, they'd still need to reboot him and his supporting cast. Which would be a waste.

I'll dare to completely and strongly disagree with you here. Deadpool actually would make more sense as a MCU dark rated r comedy with two X-Men characters that could very well exist within the MCU than whatever Bryan Singer and Kinberg have done with the characters this entire time. Deadpool is by far the best X-Men film that I've ever seen, and that's precisely because it couldn't be more different than Singer's films, and it feels more like an X-Men story more than what Singer has ever done. Getting Deadpool and the X-Men to make sense within the MCU wouldn't be as hard as people that think like you seem to think, which leads me to my next point...

The X-Men absolutely do not fit into the MCU. Singer has his problems but at least he created a world where mutants are hated and feared. Mutants aren't a presence in MCU, introducing them at this point means the social aspect of the franchise would be gone. Magneto being active since WWII would be gone, Wolverine, Sabretooth, Mystique, Mr Sinister and Apocalypse's long histories as well. Hard to see the Hellfire Club be created in the 21st century too. Also Age of Ultron and Civil War didn't really give me the impression that we needed more superheroes in MCU, they got a pretty big cast as it is. In short the downsides far outweigh the upsides if you ask me.

...and that's what you and other X-Men fan get too attached to things that actually hold these characters back. Neither Magneto or Xavier are immortals or found the fountain of the eternal youth. Not all of them have a healing factor that stop them of growing old. Making Erik a Nazi camp survivor only makes sense if he is already dead. He's not Captain America after all. I'd just update his origin and Charles and don't get attached to any of this. Deadpool, Ajax and Wolverine himself (the MCU one) could be the government experimenting with the mutant gene that was just discovered. There are ways to make in story WHY they are hated and feared. Hell, Scarlet Witch, Hulk and even the Avengers ARE hated and feared in Civil War. It's actually the perfect climate to introduce mutants in the MCU right now. All the Singer's continuity would be gone of course. But Deadpool could keep going and even break the fourth wall and comment on it. People would totally buy it, and it'd save the X-Men comics as well. I fail to see how any X-Men comic book fan wouldn't be over the moon with that. It'd resolve all the X-Men problems at same time. Literally. Both in comics AND the films.

[Ravin' Ray]

A thread for this was started in the TV/Film forum.

[ijacksparrow]

Really ?, because unlike DC, FOX hasnt kicked anyone, not even as scapegoat, and Singer said that he was leaving even before Apocalypse was screened for critics.

It's not. They have HUGE budgets and the films always look subpar compared with Marvel Studios and even DCEU ones. DoFP should have been their swan song, nobody needed Apocalypse to happen. Deadpool in my head canon is the single film that Fox owns that matters right now. All the rest belongs to Singer's continuity, which I'm very grateful, but overstayed their welcome one film too many.

[ijacksparrow]

A thread for this was started in the TV/Film forum.

Yes, the X-Men boards also have one there, but given the importance of what a deal between Marvel and Fox can entail for the comics branch of Marvel, I thought it made sense to create this one here too. Do you think it's too much? I mean, Marvel Comics isn't even trying to hide anymore the whole "The Complex" thing with the answers that Brevoort gave it recently. I think that a deal between Marvel and Fox is even a bigger deal than one they have with Sony, and it would mean that the Marvel Universe wouldn't be fractured anymore, neither in the films OR the comics. I sincerely think that all the buzz that we can generate for this to happen could make the suits finalize realize the obvious and just join forces to make a shock load of money (I really like the 2099 slang 'shock', it goes with everything).

[JKtheMac]

This has been bubbling up for a couple of months now. It wasn't a coincidence that the X-Books decided to do a low key tie in with an Apocalypse theme at the same time Fox are making Movies.

What everyone needs to remember is the lawyers are always at the table. It is a little like divorce proceedings, they will always be more protracted and expensive if you bring people in that have a vested interest in lengthy and costly process.

What this effectively means is whenever Fox and Marvel talk they could be very amiable and happy meetings but we have no way of telling. But, the people at that table are realists who know what they are doing. Fox know the properties they have a grip on are valuable but they know that ultimately the properties are owned by Marvel. Marvel have more power than may be apparent here.

If Fox didn't realise this simple fact then the Fantastic Four would have proved it. Think Paul Atreides' clumsy line “The people who can destroy a thing, they control it.”

[JKtheMac]

I follow how box office works quite closely, and no, DoFP wasn't the big hit they were hoping for. It was big, but not for a film they invested $250m plus marketing. Deadpool in the other hand is spectacular and made them a lot of money. Tim Miller is friends with Kevin Feige AND the Russo Brothers. And with that said...

I also follow these things closely and things are not as clear cut as you think. Box office hype rarely takes into account the average movie and how these kinds of movies are not average in any way. They also tend to obscure the net figures over a long period and the amount of money made in TV / Streaming and DVD sales. Movie companies don't necessarily expect huge success at the box-office and the obsession with gross takings has always been more hype than reality given how little of that pie (especially the international pie) ends up contributing to the bottom line.

Suffice to say all of the X-Men movies were relatively cheap, and marketing expense is the most risky part of the equation. As far as I can tell Fox never made the mistake of ASM2 by believing their new movie property was bigger than it actually was and spending way too much on international marketing.

Personally I believe you can see evidence in the latest X-Men movie, that the money was running out and Fox were not prepared to spend more because they know how risky that is.

[ijacksparrow]

This has been bubbling up for a couple of months now. It wasn't a coincidence that the X-Books decided to do a low key tie in with an Apocalypse theme at the same time Fox are making Movies.

What everyone needs to remember is the lawyers are always at the table. It is a little like divorce proceedings, they will always be more protracted and expensive if you bring people in that have a vested interest in lengthy and costly process.

What this effectively means is whenever Fox and Marvel talk they could be very amiable and happy meetings but we have no way of telling. But, the people at that table are realists who know what they are doing. Fox know the properties they have a grip on are valuable but they know that ultimately the properties are owned by Marvel. Marvel have more power than may be apparent here.

If Fox didn't realise this simple fact then the Fantastic Four would have proved it. Think Paul Atreides' clumsy line “The people who can destroy a thing, they control it.”

Ex-shocking-actly. Timing is key. They could've waited until SDCC for this. Why now? Also, they are getting Marvel TV to work with them and no mention whatsoever about this being set in the Fox-verse of mutants. Saying that mutants showing up in the MCU wouldn't make sense because mutants are hated and feared is a HUGE fallacy. What was Scarlet Witch's whole arc in Civil War again? Oh yeah, she was hated and feared for what happened in Lagos. It can work, and obviously it'd fit. It's the Marvel Universe after all.

[dragonmp93]

Ex-shocking-actly. Timing is key. They could've waited until SDCC for this. Why now? Also, they are getting Marvel TV to work with them and no mention whatsoever about this being set in the Fox-verse of mutants. Saying that mutants showing up in the MCU wouldn't make sense because mutants are hated and feared is a HUGE fallacy. What was Scarlet Witch's whole arc in Civil War again? Oh yeah, she was hated and feared for what happened in Lagos. It can work, and obviously it'd fit. It's the Marvel Universe after all.

Well, the comics have featured two mutant genocides plus a lot of Purifiers and Sentinel attacks, so i dont think that is a plus.

[ijacksparrow]

I also follow these things closely and things are not as clear cut as you think. Box office hype rarely takes into account the average movie and how these kinds of movies are not average in any way. They also tend to obscure the net figures over a long period and the amount of money made in TV / Streaming and DVD sales. Movie companies don't necessarily expect huge success at the box-office and the obsession with gross takings has always been more hype than reality given how little of that pie (especially the international pie) ends up contributing to the bottom line.

Suffice to say all of the X-Men movies were relatively cheap, and marketing expense is the most risky part of the equation. As far as I can tell Fox never made the mistake of ASM2 by believing their new movie property was bigger than it actually was and spending way too much on international marketing.

Personally I believe you can see evidence in the latest X-Men movie, that the money was running out and Fox were not prepared to spend more because they know how risky that is.

Making films is a profitable business. But sometimes films don't make their money back until tv deals and home markets enter the equation, and it's obvious that for them, the more they make at box office, the better. Why? Fast return of their investment, of course. And yes, I'd argue that Fox did commit the same mistake that Sony did and they are at a very much similar position with the X-Men as you might realize: they invested a HELL of lot money promoting DoFP and while that somewhat paid off, they still didn't make their money back from the theatrical box office run, it was even worse with Apocalypse, so you could easily see these two as TASM1 and TASM2 analogues. Add this the fact that Deadpool worked because it follows much more closely the "Marvel way" of filmmaking, Tim Miller's friendship with the Russo Brothers and Kevin Feige, Deadpool's absurd success and Independence Day bombing, Fox situation isn't really that much different than Sony when they signed the deal for Spider-Man. Fox wants to make money, and literally all they have for that is the X-Men right now, and more specifically, Deadpool. I think the announcement could entail just the F4, but I wouldn't be surprised if actually involves the X-Men too, with Wolverine being their swan song and Josh Boone's new mutants project getting reworked or even delayed like it happened with Sony's Sinister Six.

[ijacksparrow]

Well, the comics have featured two mutant genocides plus a lot of Purifiers and Sentinel attacks, so i dont think that is a plus.

Marvel reworking their deal with Fox is the best that could help to the x-fans. Marvel would start caring about the franchise again. Everybody wins.