Multiple Supermen: How to Fix All of This

[Superlad93]

Superman stories work best as fables about humanity and what it all means to exist

Yes and the best way to get to the heart of this is to essentially make an everyman character with the volume waaaaay turned up. "What does it feel like when you have a fight with your friend?" "what does it feel like when relatives from out of town visit?" "What does it feel like to have a culture you'll never really know?" "What does it feel like to have a kid?"

That's all it breaks down to. What does it feel like for all of us. But with Superman, his friend is Jimmy, and Superman's acting like a dick because he's being influenced by some sort of prehistoric kryptonian scarlet fever. His relatives are from the far future, and they've brought some time crisis with them that you have to deal with. His culture that he'll never understand is that of a dead world. Just like a first generation Nigerian born in America can visit Nigeria and never quite feel like they belong in either place fully.

And for the kid in particular it's full of great potential, and strong allegory. For one, Superman fights for tomorrow. He fights for this ethereal and intangible idea, and Superman will fight tooth and nail for. But now tomorrow has voice. Tomorrow can laugh, cry, and skin it's knee. Tomorrow now looks to him for guidance and protection. Clark wants to beat back all of the boogeymen and monsters so that tomorrow can have a safe and possibility filled world to grow in.

I maintain that Superman is in fact an everyman, but with the volume turned waaaaay up.

[Superlad93]

From Grant "I created the greatest Superman story ever" Morrison.

This, more or less, is where I stand with the character. It's why I think making him this unknowable idea is the incorrect way to go. You close yourself off to all of the compelling flaws and foibles of being a man in the world. You know how dreams are just a strange collection and stretching/twisting of conscious and subconscious thought that you've compiled by simply living your life? (basically you creating allegory for your own life in your head) That's Superman. He's just a dude with the volume turned waaaay up.

Grant Morrison: In the end, I saw Superman not as a superhero or even a science fiction character, but as a story of Everyman. We’re all Superman in our own adventures. We have our own Fortresses of Solitude we retreat to, with our own special collections of valued stuff, our own super–pets, our own “Bottle Cities” that we feel guilty for neglecting. We have our own peers and rivals and bizarre emotional or moral tangles to deal with.
I felt I’d really grasped the concept when I saw him as Everyman, or rather as the dreamself of Everyman. That “S” is the radiant emblem of divinity we reveal when we rip off our stuffy shirts, our social masks, our neuroses, our constructed selves, and become who we truly are.
Batman is obviously much cooler, but that’s because he’s a very energetic and adolescent fantasy character: a handsome billionaire playboy in black leather with a butler at this beck and call, better cars and gadgetry than James Bond, a horde of fetish femme fatales baying around his heels and no boss. That guy’s Superman day and night.
Superman grew up baling hay on a farm. He goes to work, for a boss, in an office. He pines after a hard–working gal. Only when he tears off his shirt does that heroic, ideal inner self come to life. That’s actually a much more adult fantasy than the one Batman’s peddling but it also makes Superman a little harder to sell. He’s much more of a working class superhero, which is why we ended the whole book with the image of a laboring Superman.
He’s Everyman operating on a sci–fi Paul Bunyan scale. His worries and emotional problems are the same as ours… except that when he falls out with his girlfriend, the world trembles.

http://www.newsarama.com/1335-all-st...uperman-1.html

[Sacred Knight]

I'm fine portraying Superman as an everyman from a certain point of view, like in the various symbolic natures that Morrison describes. But one point of view for the everyman that I absolutely reject is the guy who is just a down home country boy to the point that he's left awestruck by other heroes. And that's exactly what Manupal describes Superman as. Those blurbs don't imply that he's an incredible being whose seen incredible things yet all the same witnessing the might of his friends, the way they triumph in their ways, still awes him. That's one thing. Superman is always awed by the human spirit; its one of the reasons he loves them so much. And there's certainly nothing wrong with him being impressed with the physical and/or magical power of others. But instead it specifically draws the correalation that he's awed by them because he's a farmboy. And its just so vexing because its straight from the crappy Book of Johns. And that's just so incredibly off the mark to me.

If he's awed by Batman it could be because of his unwavering spirit and his intelligence. If he's awed by Wonder Woman it can be due to the respect he has for her kindness even above the impressive strength of the gods that she possess. That's all well and good. He's seen all these attributes before many times over in his travels but there's no reason he can't impressed by these attributes in his friends. But don't try and feed me "Golly gee, I ain't never seen nothin like THAT before down on the farm, hyuk!" If that's not how the dynamic is actually played, well consider me relieved, but that's the impression it gives.

[Superlad93]

I'm fine portraying Superman as an everyman from a certain point of view, like in the various symbolic natures that Morrison describes. But one point of view for the everyman that I absolutely reject is the guy who is just a down home country boy to the point that he's left awestruck by other heroes. And that's exactly what Manupal describes Superman as.

But why shouldn't he be awestruck by billionaire play boys and Amazon warrior princesses? Just like Morrison describes, "Superman grew up baling hay on a farm. He goes to work, for a boss, in an office. He pines after a hard–working gal." That dream self he embodies as Superman is just an articulation of very mundane turned waaay up. As Morrison says, his roots are still that of a working class kid from farm in a small town. Nothing Manupal said strikes me as contradictory to what Morrison describes, and what I personally think of the character. So I don't personally feel any ill will. How he goes about it on the page is another story.

But instead it specifically draws the correalation that he's awed by them because he's a farmboy.

And I still don't see the issue or understand this stigma of being a "farmboy". Morrison's Superman was a farmboy at heart. He said the "real" Clark/Superman was the guy that knows how to drive a tractor and listens to weird alien music. Why wouldn't he be in awe a hyper competent billionaire human who fights an unending militaristic war against what seems to be the very idea of crime. Why wouldn't Superman be in awe of the princess who was trained from birth to be a perfect fighter and diplomat on a mythic Utopian island of women? Where they start from must be inherently awe inspiring to Superman, I feel.

It doesn't sound like he's down playing what they currently do, because they're all doing roughly the same things while on the JLA. I believe it's the starting point that takes him back.

[Flash Gordon]

There's a difference. Morrison is saying every one of us has a little Superman inside. All our adventures are just as big and wild, to us. In our dreams, we are all capable of tearing open our shirt to blast off ajd save our Lois Lane. He is not saying Kal-El is an everyman character. He doesn't write Superman that way.

Superman isn't just some guy from a farm. The humble upbringing is important for the hero's journey and for Superman to have a more populist experience of Earth. It isn't to make him "just some guy" since coming from a farm doesn't instantly make you "just some guy". It means you're someone who lived in a rural area once, it doesnt define you unless you want it to. He's far more of a writer, and adventurer, a scientist. I'd like to see Clark as more of a working class guy in Metropolis, trying to get published and get his blog to get more attention. I don't have much interest in farmer Superman, cause that's just an aspect of his backstory and not at all who he is.

It's a huge mistake, I believe, to water Kal-El down like that.

[Superlad93]

There's a difference. Morrison is saying every one of us has a little Superman inside. All our adventures are just as big and wild, to us. In our dreams, we are all capable of tearing open our shirt to blast off ajd save our Lois Lane. He is not saying Kal-El is an everyman character. He doesn't write Superman that way.

In the same sense as a dream being sort of allegory for articulating what one is feeling and/or doing in the real world then yes. His stories should always sorta just boil down to really simple ideas and issues that are turned waaaay up.

It isn't to make him "just some guy" since coming from a farm doesn't instantly make you "just some guy".

It does make his origins pretty down to earth in comparison to a Wonder Woman or Aquaman. It makes the utterly working class his personal roots and base understanding.

It means you're someone who lived in a rural area once, it doesnt define you unless you want it to. I'd like to see Clark as more of a working class guy in Metropolis, trying to get published and get his blog to get more attention.

I think it's okay to let it define him a bit. The idea that he knows first hand what rolling your sleeves up and getting to work means. Or knowing that nurturing and growing something takes time and elbow grease. But that doesn't mean he can't also be a city boy. My ideal Clark Kent is a farmboy turned metropolitan man. He's a writer because it's simply something he likes doing, and it happens to have the possibility of helping people like a lot of jobs do. His aspirations to get his book published are important to him in ways that something similar would never be to Diana or Bruce.

All of these ideas and aspirations scream everyman to me in a strong contrasting way to Wonder Woman: the diplomatic warrior princess, and Batman: the militarized billionaire playboy with ALL the free time ever, and this is my ultimate point.

I don't have much interest in farmer Superman, cause that's just an aspect of his backstory and not at all who he is.

I think the idea is the same as KC. When Clark doesn't have many options left to him, he goes back to his root, farming. I find that completely acceptable given the circumstances he's currently in. It's comforting, and provides a sense of stability while the world around him is unfamiliar.

My point is that he is an everyman character but turned waaaay up. And the word "everyman" or "farm" doesn't have to be some swear words in the Superman world.

[Slaughter]

I like Superman as The Everyman because all these Billionarie Playboys, Chosen Ones and Monarchs and Space Police Officers and Wizards whose existance is linked with fate, ultimately defer to a humble guy born in Kansas.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

My .02:

He is an everyman in the sense that, having a human upbringing, he has the same feelings and doubts we do. But he's NOT an everyman in the sense of him being just a regular joe with powers or being a naive farmboy. I reject that absolutely, and I will till the day I die. This is how some writers try to portray him, and I believe it's a big mistake. Humility and the ability to be in awe at the qualities of his comrades is one thing, another is to be foolishly impressed by those things, as Sacred Knight pointed out.

He's an alien. ALIEN. With what should be a totally different biology from us humans. Also, he's the door for us to experience the impossible. Time and space, other dimensions, etc. A la Dr. Who, if you will. A way for us to escape from reality. When a writer tries to "humanize" him, they shouldn't look at ways to depower him, root him to Earth or filling him with ENDLESS self-doubt (SOME of that is good sometimes, if the story really demands it, because of the dilemmas he should face), but to expose him to moral dilemmas, his impact on the world/galaxy/etc. and even everyday life. THAT, IMO, would be the everyman part in Superman. The rest: an adventurer, a scientist, a god.

[Tayswift]

So 1 theory could be that superdad is this universes superman,always has been,new 52 superman,who is a younger version of him,didn't die,just lost his powers,and went into hiding,and now clark kent.

Idk,convergence,and time travel,to conclude that every superman and clark are really the same guy?

Nuts

Jurgens already said clark kent isn't a obvious answer, him being new 52 would be too obvious.

[Superlad93]

My .02:

He is an everyman in the sense that, having a human upbringing, he has the same feelings and doubts we do. But he's NOT an everyman in the sense of him being just a regular joe with powers or being a naive farmboy. I reject that absolutely, and I will till the day I die. This is how some writers try to portray him, and I believe it's a big mistake. Humility and the ability to be in awe at the qualities of his comrades is one thing, another is to be foolishly impressed by those things, as Sacred Knight pointed out.

He's an alien. ALIEN. With what should be a totally different biology from us humans. Also, he's the door for us to experience the impossible. Time and space, other dimensions, etc. A la Dr. Who, if you will. A way for us to escape from reality. When a writer tries to "humanize" him, they shouldn't look at ways to depower him, root him to Earth or filling him with ENDLESS self-doubt (SOME of that is good sometimes, if the story really demands it, because of the dilemmas he should face), but to expose him to moral dilemmas, his impact on the world/galaxy/etc. and even everyday life. THAT, IMO, would be the everyman part in Superman. The rest: an adventurer, a scientist, a god.

I feel like we might all be saying the same thing, but we just have different ways looking at terms like "everyman" and "farmboy".

I mean for instance, I think Superman helping his son with a science experiment that goes horribly wrong and transports them to and island full of dinosaurs in need of punching, would constitute as "everyman". It all boils down to Superman spending quality time with his kid. Also I agree with Slaughter, Superman is ultimately a guy from Krypton blessed by circumstances. He isn't the "chosen one", a prince, an elected officer, magic, or a billionaire. He would've just been Kal-El of Krypton had the planet not went up. Maybe he would've been a great scientist like his dad, or maybe he would've been less extraordinary by Krypton standards? Who knows? But what is known is that he would've just been a guy from Krypton. I feel like that can't be disputed.

Happenstance is his power. He's ultimately a immigrant trying to make his way in his adopted home. So with that in mind I can believe that he'd be in awe of the circumstances that birthed his friends as he knows them.

[Tayswift]

I feel like we might all be saying the same thing, but we just have different ways looking at terms like "everyman" and "farmboy".

I mean for instance, I think Superman helping his son with a science experiment that goes horribly wrong and transports them to and island full of dinosaurs in need of punching, would constitute as "everyman". It all boils down to Superman spending quality time with his kid. Also I agree with Slaughter, Superman is ultimately a guy from Krypton blessed by circumstances. He isn't the "chosen one", a prince, an elected officer, magic, or a billionaire. He would've like have just been Kal-El of Krypton had the planet not went up. Maybe he would've been a great scientist like his dad, or maybe he would've been less extraordinary by Krypton standards? Who know? But what is known is that he would've just been a guy from Krypton. I feel like that can't be disputed.

Happenstance is his power. He's ultimately a immigrant trying to make his way in his adopted home. So with that in mind I can believe that he'd be in awe of the circumstances that birthed his friends as he knows them.

It's funny that from Trinity he is the more grounded because he was raised among humans without any privilege. He was a billionaire kid that went to best schools and have a limited view on the world. Clark was raised into a humble enviroment, where he interacted with everyman and everywoman.

[Flash Gordon]

To dismiss your actual biology is inherently wrong, I think. Superman is an actual alien from another world. He wasn't born in Kansas and he isn't human.

I'm not a fan of Kingdom Come, so I can't really talk about that idea of him returning to his roots. To me "returning to his roots" wouldn't look like that at all. He has a Fortress of Solitude for a reason. He's a science fiction action hero. The beyond is always at his fingertips. He's our outlet to worlds far past our human comprehension. I don't think he'd be in awe of Batman or Wonder Woman, at all. They're pals of his, but at the end of the day they're just some Earth pals. Batman's entire career and war on crime would just seem so very small, from his perspective. I think the core of what brings Lois and Clark together is their similarities, and strength of character. That would mean more than his Superfriends.

I just do not see "farmboy" as a major part of Kal. Maybe now it is, since it's repeated so much as the truth but it just is lazy story telling. He lived in Smallville till what, 18? That doesnt make you a farmer, just a farmer's son. Yes it is really important that he comes from a poor economic background and that he is not a man of privilege, since he is the Champion of the Oppressed. Being a farmboy and being working class are not interchangeable words, though.

If you want to play that up, okay, show us more Smallville. Drop the Norman Rockwell schlock and show us a poor Midwestern family in a post-Reganomics America. Death of main street, and all that. If you want that to be a large part of him, that could be an interesting route. As it stands now, it's boring and lazy.

[Superlad93]

To dismiss your actual biology is inherently wrong, I think. Superman is an actual alien from another world. He wasn't born in Kansas and he isn't human.

I never did, and I never said he was. I'd just rather funnel that through the allegorical angle of immigration rather than focusing too much on the science fiction character aspect of it. Not that science fiction doesn't play it's strong role though and grander to it all.

I'm not a fan of Kingdom Come, so I can't really talk about that idea of him returning to his roots. To me "returning to his roots" wouldn't look like that at all.

That's fine we can disagree on this.

He has a Fortress of Solitude for a reason.

This, to me, isn't his home or his roots. It's a mancave/shed/workshop/gym/lab/memorial/time capsual/and quite place to think when the need is there. But it's still not a home for him I feel. Or it shouldn't be

He's a science fiction action hero. The beyond is always at his fingertips.

Yes but as you yourself have admitted it's allegorical. Most of it is dressing for more intimate ideas and concepts.

Batman's entire career and war on crime would just seem so very small, from his perspective.

The comes off more like a condescending god who devalues the struggle of those "less than." I imagine he'd look at it from Bruce's perspective since Clark is such an inherently empathetic person without even including his powers. I imagine Batman's story pays as quite compelling and awe inspiring to the man who doesn't feel any job is "too small." Saying Superman would think Batman's entire reason for life were small rings and totally un Superman, and walking more along the Doctor Manhattan side of the Superman spectrum.

If you want to play that up, okay, show us more Smallville. Drop the Norman Rockwell schlock and show us a poor Midwestern family in a post-Reganomics America. Death of main street, and all that. If you want that to be a large part of him, that could be an interesting route. As it stands now, it's boring and lazy.

I honestly think this is overthinking it, IMO.

[Johnny Thunders!]

I think Supermen from across time, timelines, and dimensions is a lot of fun. Remember when Chris Roberson set up the Fortress of Solidatiry, sort of like Supreme's Supremacy or Captain Marvels Rock of Eternity? I would love that for Superman. I want more stories from President Superman and T Shirt Superman.

[Sacred Knight]

And I still don't see the issue or understand this stigma of being a "farmboy".

Its in how DC uses it. There's nothing wrong with the fact he was raised on a farm and thus was a farmboy. In the literal, fact-of-the-matter situation, sure that applies. But there is sooo much more to him and DC's penchant is to use that phrase to dumb him down. Its used as code to overly-humanize him and take focus off his Kryptonian side. I say that not out of speculation, but from past evidence and experience. Its what they've done routinely in the past so whenever that word comes up, that's what it evokes. Especially when worded the way it was worded in this particular case.