Multiple Supermen: How to Fix All of This

[manofsteel1979]

I think today's Superwoman issue is the earnest start of us eventually getting back to one Superman (at least one who goes by the name Clark Kent)and one Lois Lane,and I have a strong feeling that the segment of the fan base that simply want preFlashpoint Superman be this current alive main Superman and would rather they leave it at that and completely wipe away the last 5 years of the New 52 Superman as if it was some horrible abomination will be greatly disappointed.

The diehard Nuperman fans aren't going to get everything they want either ,but at least when all is said and done the Superman we have now will have always been Superman the whole time. the good elements of the New 52 will be folded into the ongoing narrative alongside ( hopefully) the greatest hits of not only the last 30 years,but the last 78 years and we finally get with Superman that DC has with Batman...I.e. the feeling of this being the same guy over his whole history who has lived different lives and has had thousands of crazy adventures, instead of all of these arbitrary stoping and starting points and dividing lines. No more Pre Crisis Superman or post crisis Superman or new 52 Superman or Rebirth Superman. Just,at last, Superman. In my opinion,more than anything else,that is the disease at the root that's been eating away at the character for a long time now. For Superman to truly be fixed,that needs to be addressed first.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

I feel like we might all be saying the same thing, but we just have different ways looking at terms like "everyman" and "farmboy".

I mean for instance, I think Superman helping his son with a science experiment that goes horribly wrong and transports them to and island full of dinosaurs in need of punching, would constitute as "everyman". It all boils down to Superman spending quality time with his kid. Also I agree with Slaughter, Superman is ultimately a guy from Krypton blessed by circumstances. He isn't the "chosen one", a prince, an elected officer, magic, or a billionaire. He would've just been Kal-El of Krypton had the planet not went up. Maybe he would've been a great scientist like his dad, or maybe he would've been less extraordinary by Krypton standards? Who knows? But what is known is that he would've just been a guy from Krypton. I feel like that can't be disputed.

Happenstance is his power. He's ultimately a immigrant trying to make his way in his adopted home. So with that in mind I can believe that he'd be in awe of the circumstances that birthed his friends as he knows them.

Oh yes, I agree on him being an immigrant. Also, him helping his son on a science experiment is also a very human thing. But the thing with DC is that they overemphasize it, to the point that he looks naive sometimes. To commend his comrades' qualities, and to a point be impressed (or perhaps "proud/ glad" would be better words) by how a human can achieve so much is good, but never to the point of dumbing him down.

It's like how they physically portray him. Look at the "solar flare" fiasco. He becomes human. As if he were one.

To dismiss your actual biology is inherently wrong, I think. Superman is an actual alien from another world. He wasn't born in Kansas and he isn't human.

I'm not a fan of Kingdom Come, so I can't really talk about that idea of him returning to his roots. To me "returning to his roots" wouldn't look like that at all. He has a Fortress of Solitude for a reason. He's a science fiction action hero. The beyond is always at his fingertips. He's our outlet to worlds far past our human comprehension. I don't think he'd be in awe of Batman or Wonder Woman, at all. They're pals of his, but at the end of the day they're just some Earth pals. Batman's entire career and war on crime would just seem so very small, from his perspective. I think the core of what brings Lois and Clark together is their similarities, and strength of character. That would mean more than his Superfriends.

I just do not see "farmboy" as a major part of Kal. Maybe now it is, since it's repeated so much as the truth but it just is lazy story telling. He lived in Smallville till what, 18? That doesnt make you a farmer, just a farmer's son. Yes it is really important that he comes from a poor economic background and that he is not a man of privilege, since he is the Champion of the Oppressed. Being a farmboy and being working class are not interchangeable words, though.

If you want to play that up, okay, show us more Smallville. Drop the Norman Rockwell schlock and show us a poor Midwestern family in a post-Reganomics America. Death of main street, and all that. If you want that to be a large part of him, that could be an interesting route. As it stands now, it's boring and lazy.

I see it this way: him being a farmboy because he was raised on a farm and worked there to help his parents is all good and well. But when writers try to add that naive, foolish "farmboy" attitude, by which he acts like a 5-year old at the sight of Batman or the first time he visits Metropolis, then we have problem.

As for his biology: yeah, I agree. Also, we are on the same page regarding Superman being a door to the wildest adventures.

Its in how DC uses it. There's nothing wrong with the fact he was raised on a farm and thus was a farmboy. In the literal, fact-of-the-matter situation, sure that applies. But there is sooo much more to him and DC's penchant is to use that phrase to dumb him down. Its used as code to overly-humanize him and take focus off his Kryptonian side. I say that not out of speculation, but from past evidence and experience. Its what they've done routinely in the past so whenever that word comes up, that's what it evokes. Especially when worded the way it was worded in this particular case.

Yup, pretty much. His Kryptonian heritage has been neglected for a long time (especially pre-flashpoint, IMO), and that needs to be addressed.

[Myskin]

The diehard Nuperman fans aren't going to get everything they want either ,but at least when all is said and done the Superman we have now will have always been Superman the whole time. the good elements of the New 52 will be folded into the ongoing narrative .

Bizarre to say, but that's exactly what they have been attempting to do since... 2003. I guess.
I don't know what will happen, but IMHO the outcome will be pretty simple, and it depends on one element: Jon.

If and when the "folding" will happen (I'm doubtful, but whatever) and if the last Superman standing will still have a son in present continuity, SuperDad will be the official Superman. Even if some elements of Nuperman will be included in his history.
If the "survivor" will not have a son, the official Superman will be Nuperman. Even if the Kents will still be alive, etc.

[Tayswift]

superman and nuperman simply won't merge, it would convolute more any continuity

[Rikdad]

superman and nuperman simply won't merge, it would convolute more any continuity

My supposition (at least, before digesting today's little clues) is that they won't merge, but they were never from different worlds, but different time from the same world.

However obvious it may seem that Superdad is the pre-Flashpoint Superman and the guy who died was the post-Flashpoint Superman, we've already been told that that isn't how it's going to play out. We don't know what the twist will be, but there will be a twist; that was promised. Both of their identities are not what they (and we) thought.

We also know that Rebirth was telling us that what was wrong in the pre-Rebirth DCU included the fact that some years had been taken away. My supposition is that Superdad is the post-Flashpoint's Superman without those years taken away. But, for the same reason that nobody remembered Wally West, the JSA, etc., nobody remembered Superman's missing years (during which he aged from about 27 to 32 and married Lois) either.

[Sacred Knight]

I think today's Superwoman issue is the earnest start of us eventually getting back to one Superman (at least one who goes by the name Clark Kent)and one Lois Lane,and I have a strong feeling that the segment of the fan base that simply want preFlashpoint Superman be this current alive main Superman and would rather they leave it at that and completely wipe away the last 5 years of the New 52 Superman as if it was some horrible abomination will be greatly disappointed.

The diehard Nuperman fans aren't going to get everything they want either ,but at least when all is said and done the Superman we have now will have always been Superman the whole time. the good elements of the New 52 will be folded into the ongoing narrative alongside ( hopefully) the greatest hits of not only the last 30 years,but the last 78 years and we finally get with Superman that DC has with Batman...I.e. the feeling of this being the same guy over his whole history who has lived different lives and has had thousands of crazy adventures, instead of all of these arbitrary stoping and starting points and dividing lines. No more Pre Crisis Superman or post crisis Superman or new 52 Superman or Rebirth Superman. Just,at last, Superman. In my opinion,more than anything else,that is the disease at the root that's been eating away at the character for a long time now. For Superman to truly be fixed,that needs to be addressed first.

ITA.

But I'm terribly concerned about how the history will be reconciled once everything is revealed. There's just absolutely no reason that it had to be as confusing and unreader friendly (I don't think that's a real word), as its going to be. It would take a master stroke of yet another limited series that tells the origin but this time also beyond to make sense of things and to be the definitive bible of this Superman's history. And not only do I not trust they can make that happen, it'd also be too long a wait before we'd even potentially get it.

superman and nuperman simply won't merge, it would convolute more any continuity

They're not merging. They don't NEED to merge; they're the same person. That's what Lois saw, that's what she understood before she left. She understood that Superman didn't die, and she understood that the "new" Superman and the other Lois are indeed future versions of him and her.

[Myskin]

They're not merging. They don't NEED to merge; they're the same person. That's what Lois saw, that's what she understood before she left. She understood that Superman didn't die, and she understood that the "new" Superman and the other Lois are indeed future versions of him and her.

Look, I really don't know what they will do, but technically speaking they ARE two different people. They are the same person in the sense that Nuperman and SuperDad are temperamentally identical. But if you take their personal backgrounds into account, they are different people with different personal experiences. The Kents, Krypton, their debut - these details are entirely different and there is no way to reconcile them.

[Sacred Knight]

I believe they're gonna try. I don't think they'll succeed at anything satisfactory, but that's what I believe.

[Last Son of Krypton]

I think that the Superdad/Nuperman situation isn't going anywhere like the multiple origins of Superman and other stuff of the past.
After Birthright and Infinite Crisis, readers were wondering what it was canon and what not, and we know how it ended.
It's not very different from what's happening today.

[adrikito]

I think today's Superwoman issue is the earnest start of us eventually getting back to one Superman (at least one who goes by the name Clark Kent)and one Lois Lane,and I have a strong feeling that the segment of the fan base that simply want preFlashpoint Superman be this current alive main Superman and would rather they leave it at that and completely wipe away the last 5 years of the New 52 Superman as if it was some horrible abomination will be greatly disappointed.

The diehard Nuperman fans aren't going to get everything they want either ,but at least when all is said and done the Superman we have now will have always been Superman the whole time. the good elements of the New 52 will be folded into the ongoing narrative alongside ( hopefully) the greatest hits of not only the last 30 years,but the last 78 years and we finally get with Superman that DC has with Batman..

Only one generation of fans remain happy after this 2 years... All those people who have been complaining the last 5 years ... and still continue to complain(Where is this? where is that? Come back to pre-flashpoint ..).... Nothing unexpected, DC did nothing to hide this... One family? That only of interest to fans of superdad.

If I not remember this bad.. Someone of DC said they did not want the repeated characters because they represent the same..

I would also prefer Stephanie Brown as Batgirl, better to see Barbara Gordon of burnside.. But this, is imposible..

[Rikdad]

I think DC is quite aware that they've created a mess and have a solution to make everyone happy in mind. Will the New 52 Superman return? I think he already did. The story and its clues are complicated, but the solution is coming, and I think it's going to end up relatively simple.

http://rikdad.blogspot.com/2016/07/s...-do-we-go.html

Six months later, the clues are still trickling in. In this week's Justice League #14…

Superman: "Batman once told me the only way to find the truth was to question everything."
Batman: "I didn't tell you that. I told my Superman that."
Superman: "Really?…"

This is not a random bit of awkward conversation dragged out over three panels.

Batman is quite certain that he told that to New 52 Superman, and he's not prone to being wrong. Yet [Lois-and-Clark] Superman remembers hearing it. This is not the sort of detail that a writer would spend time on just to show that memory is occasionally imperfect.

The possibilities are:
Lois-and-Clark Superman is the New 52 Superman, but aged a few years, during which time he married Lois.
OR
Pre-Flashpoint Batman told Pre-Flashpoint Superman this and Superman just remembers it incorrectly. The writer spent three panels showing that Superman has a bad memory.

There may be some additional cosmic detail or two, but the basic truth that they've been leaking out, clue by clue, is that the two Supermen are actually the same person, not just two universes' different takes on the general Superman idea, the way that Jay Garrick and Barry Allen are different Flashes.

They're taking their time getting around to the truth, but all the clues have pointed this way since the beginning.

[manofsteel1979]

Six months later, the clues are still trickling in. In this week's Justice League #14…

Superman: "Batman once told me the only way to find the truth was to question everything."
Batman: "I didn't tell you that. I told my Superman that."
Superman: "Really?…"

This is not a random bit of awkward conversation dragged out over three panels.

Batman is quite certain that he told that to New 52 Superman, and he's not prone to being wrong. Yet [Lois-and-Clark] Superman remembers hearing it. This is not the sort of detail that a writer would spend time on just to show that memory is occasionally imperfect.

The possibilities are:
Lois-and-Clark Superman is the New 52 Superman, but aged a few years, during which time he married Lois.
OR
Pre-Flashpoint Batman told Pre-Flashpoint Superman this and Superman just remembers it incorrectly. The writer spent three panels showing that Superman has a bad memory.

There may be some additional cosmic detail or two, but the basic truth that they've been leaking out, clue by clue, is that the two Supermen are actually the same person, not just two universes' different takes on the general Superman idea, the way that Jay Garrick and Barry Allen are different Flashes.

They're taking their time getting around to the truth, but all the clues have pointed this way since the beginning.

Yep. Convinced more than ever Nuperman and Superdad are the same guy and always have been. Superman is Superman.

[Sacred Knight]

Ha, funny looking back at this thread and seeing how much the theories have changed. I still believe they're the same guy, but via the Red Blue split, as opposed to time travel as I initially thought. So in a sense, it looks like the "they're the same guy" and the "merge" crowd will both end up right.

But yeah, that JL quote is quite intriguing. I would offer another theory though. Perhaps its that even as we speak, the two halves are kinda calling to each other, and Rebirth Superman (Blue), is recalling the memories of his other half(Red), almost in a telepathic way. In a sense the time space continuum, fate, or whatever you want to call it, is already trying to make them merge back together.

[Atomic Man]

One thing everyone here seems to be missing is that "Superman Reborn" is not likely going to be the final solution to the effects of Flashpoint, Manhattan and Pandora's meddling, and whatever it is that kicked off Rebirth itself.

I recently went through the calendar and, if nothing delays the twice-monthly schedule for the next year, Action #100 will hit in the second half of March, 2018. One year after Reborn and less than two months before the two year mark (and presumably, the resolution) of the overarching Rebirth storyline.

I think Action #1000 is going to be the final culmination of all of these threads we've seen with the various Supermen over the last year, as well as a resolution to the "problem" of a somewhat incomplete Superman. I also feel that Superman's final restoration will set up the final resolution of Rebirth, which will obviously culminate in a DCU that's mostly pre-Flashpoint with some New 52 elements woven throughout.

Superman Reborn is simply a set up for the next year of Superman stories, all of which are leading towards the landmark Action #1000. There's no way DC's not going to make that issue a massive event with ramifications not only for Superman, the very heart of not only the DCU but the superhero comic book genre as well, but also the DCU as a whole.

[Jon Clark]

Six months later, the clues are still trickling in. In this week's Justice League #14…

Superman: "Batman once told me the only way to find the truth was to question everything."
Batman: "I didn't tell you that. I told my Superman that."
Superman: "Really?…"

This is not a random bit of awkward conversation dragged out over three panels.

Batman is quite certain that he told that to New 52 Superman, and he's not prone to being wrong. Yet [Lois-and-Clark] Superman remembers hearing it. This is not the sort of detail that a writer would spend time on just to show that memory is occasionally imperfect.

The possibilities are:
Lois-and-Clark Superman is the New 52 Superman, but aged a few years, during which time he married Lois.
OR
Pre-Flashpoint Batman told Pre-Flashpoint Superman this and Superman just remembers it incorrectly. The writer spent three panels showing that Superman has a bad memory.

Or this is a conversation that many Batmen have with their respective Supermen. You could have had a scene set during Multiplicity where Superdad mentioned this lesson and President Superman replied that he had the same advice from his Batman.