Would it work to have EVERY Superman back in continuity?

[L.R Johansson]

Yeah... this is something I just thought about, since some one on the board commented on how every reboot seems to change and hit Superman harder than just about every other character DC has:

Why do we have to chose anyway?

Originally it was because DC didn't have a Multiverse any more, but instead a merged Earth - but that changed like, 10-15 years ago!

So, why can't DC just use Rebirth as an excuse to remodel their Multiverse, and give us Earth-0 (Post-Crisis redux - aka Rebirth) Earth-1 (bronze age), Earth-2 (Golden Age) and Earth-52 (new 52) all at the same time?

Yeah, it would get super-crowded with all Supermen on the same Earth, but that could just be an introductory story, and then all of the Earth's could have a one-shot establishing each of them, with their Superman as the point-of-view figure. And then, why not publish a book here and there, with all of them? It could be a new variation on "The Adventures of Superman" -title: where a new writer comes in and does their take on a particular version of Superman. And, you could have recurring guest-appearances of the Supermen in the main books as well! : )

I'll leave the idea of what the main ongoing Superman should be, out of it, because it's just the general idea that's up on the table here - why erase ANY of them? If DC is about Legacy, then the legacy of Superman shouldn't be washed away - that was the original idea of Earth-2, keeping these older versions around, even though the regular comics had changed.

It honestly seems like such a simple straight-forward idea that I'm quite perplexed as to why DC themselves can't grasp it...

[manduck37]

I was thinking about this same thing recently. Actually, the thread started by Rikdad had me wondering if this isn't the direction they are ultimately going in. At least with Post-Crisis and New 52. I'm wondering if this isn't all a big push to say that both the Post-Crisis Superman and the New 52 Superman stories all count and are the "real Superman". We have Superdad, who thinks he's from another Earth and had a family with Lois. We have New 52 Superman with more golden age vibe who paid the ultimate price and has died. New 52 put a kind of modern spin on the Golden Age and Pre-Crisis Superman. Superdad covers the post crisis era. We know that all the heroes had years stolen from them. So perhaps Superdad is just an older version of Nuperman, displaced from time. He doesn't remember coming back to life or an early relationship with Wonder Woman and that kind of thing because of his stolen years. He doesn't remember his plan with Clark Kent and other things. Though at some point he came back, grew older and eventually married Lois. Now Superdad existed outside of time for a while, due to Convergence. He still has the memories of a lot of the lost years. Though the years that were reset with Flashpoint are lost to him, as he was outside of time. So things happened differently and there is a chunk of time he can't account for. Now, if this crazy theory has any truth to it, we could discover that both Supermen are actually the same person. Thus neither of them being what they think they are, as told by Oz. Superdad thinks he's from an alternate Earth and he's really not. Nuperman thinks he's been living his normal life when he's actually had time and experience stolen from him. Thus he's not what he thinks either, as he's missing some parts of his history.

If they turn out to be the same guy, we have a blending that essentially makes all Superman history count. Morrison established that he thinks "all Superman stories count" and reintroduced a Golden Age version of Superman to the mythos. Pre crisis elements like the Kents being dead from an earlier age were reintroduced. Superdad has his family and marriage to Lois from Post-Crisis. There are various elements from all eras that have been introduced with Nuperman and Superdad. This all could also explain why Superdad was willing to stay behind the scenes like he was. On some level he knew about the experiences of Nuperman, as they are his memories too, and knew it would all work out.

Granted, there are still plenty of hiccups that can punch some holes in this theory. Though I've never seen DC let some glaring plot holes stand in the way of their revisions or events. So I'm not ruling it out entirely. Just a theory I'm working on based on other posters here.

[adrikito]

This might have worked.. and less than a one year later, superdad is superman....

[L.R Johansson]

I was thinking about this same thing recently. Actually, the thread started by Rikdad had me wondering if this isn't the direction they are ultimately going in. At least with Post-Crisis and New 52. I'm wondering if this isn't all a big push to say that both the Post-Crisis Superman and the New 52 Superman stories all count and are the "real Superman". We have Superdad, who thinks he's from another Earth and had a family with Lois. We have New 52 Superman with more golden age vibe who paid the ultimate price and has died. New 52 put a kind of modern spin on the Golden Age and Pre-Crisis Superman. Superdad covers the post crisis era. We know that all the heroes had years stolen from them. So perhaps Superdad is just an older version of Nuperman, displaced from time. He doesn't remember coming back to life or an early relationship with Wonder Woman and that kind of thing because of his stolen years. He doesn't remember his plan with Clark Kent and other things. Though at some point he came back, grew older and eventually married Lois. Now Superdad existed outside of time for a while, due to Convergence. He still has the memories of a lot of the lost years. Though the years that were reset with Flashpoint are lost to him, as he was outside of time. So things happened differently and there is a chunk of time he can't account for. Now, if this crazy theory has any truth to it, we could discover that both Supermen are actually the same person. Thus neither of them being what they think they are, as told by Oz. Superdad thinks he's from an alternate Earth and he's really not. Nuperman thinks he's been living his normal life when he's actually had time and experience stolen from him. Thus he's not what he thinks either, as he's missing some parts of his history.

If they turn out to be the same guy, we have a blending that essentially makes all Superman history count. Morrison established that he thinks "all Superman stories count" and reintroduced a Golden Age version of Superman to the mythos. Pre crisis elements like the Kents being dead from an earlier age were reintroduced. Superdad has his family and marriage to Lois from Post-Crisis. There are various elements from all eras that have been introduced with Nuperman and Superdad. This all could also explain why Superdad was willing to stay behind the scenes like he was. On some level he knew about the experiences of Nuperman, as they are his memories too, and knew it would all work out.

Granted, there are still plenty of hiccups that can punch some holes in this theory. Though I've never seen DC let some glaring plot holes stand in the way of their revisions or events. So I'm not ruling it out entirely. Just a theory I'm working on based on other posters here.

Well, what you're suggesting is probably, sort of, what they will be going with.

I honestly don't think it's the right way to go though - There are so many aspects of the different Supermen that I don't think should be "evened out" so to speak - E2 Superman is distinctly different from E1, who is distinctly different from PC and N52.

I think the different Supermen shouldn't be blended, but that they should be allowed to retain their differences - because it's those differences that give the different versions their value! = )

Think about it like ice cream - Chocolate is good, vanilla is good, strawberry is good - even the more quirkier ones like beetroot, rhubarb and cookie dough have their qualities. Buut... if you start mixing them all, you end up with a kind of... less than appetizing mix - better then to serve different types, than to try and serve every one with one single flavour - doesn't really work.

[manduck37]

Well, what you're suggesting is probably, sort of, what they will be going with.

I honestly don't think it's the right way to go though - There are so many aspects of the different Supermen that I don't think should be "evened out" so to speak - E2 Superman is distinctly different from E1, who is distinctly different from PC and N52.

I think the different Supermen shouldn't be blended, but that they should be allowed to retain their differences - because it's those differences that give the different versions their value! = )

Think about it like ice cream - Chocolate is good, vanilla is good, strawberry is good - even the more quirkier ones like beetroot, rhubarb and cookie dough have their qualities. Buut... if you start mixing them all, you end up with a kind of... less than appetizing mix - better then to serve different types, than to try and serve every one with one single flavour - doesn't really work.

I agree. Especially since different versions can be a good window into their time and perhaps give a little social commentary. I really enjoyed exploring Golden Age Superman knowing the basis for his creation and what Seigel and Shuster went through in their lives, for example. Though from a WB perspective, they want to grab as broad an audience as possible. That means more money for them. So I wouldn't be surprised to see some kind of blending.

[JackDaw]

Yes..of course..you could have many different versions of Superman in different "verses" in current continuity and use them for different types of stories. As you could any character.

But I really don't see any big gain, compared to just using "Imaginary Tales" or "Elseword" or "All Star", etc set-ups from time to time when you want to use a slightly different Superman.

And gut feeling..it would undermine whoever the current "main" Superman is just a bit.

[Ascended]

I think there *might* be some value to Nuperman and Superdad co-existing, along the lines of Red/Blue. Maybe. Im not sold on the concept, but I think it's something that, under the right set of circumstances, could have value and if nothing else, it would allow both characters to expand a little bit beyond the usual trappings of the standard status quo. For example, you cant have them both working at the Planet, so what does the other guy do in his down time? Stuff like that. And through the process of building both characters' foundations you might stumble upon a golden nugget worth keeping in the future, after the inevitable reboot or relaunch.

More than that? That would, I think, almost certainly be a mistake. Some characters can have multiple partners, legacies, or doppelgangers at a time and be enriched by it, like Green Lantern or Flash, but multiple Supermen doesnt strike me as a sustainable, desirable goal. With just Nuperman and Superdad.....maybe. I wouldnt bet on it, but maybe. More than that? All you'll do is dilute the fanbase and sales across the board will sink as everyone gravitates to their favorite. I certainly wouldnt read Superdad if Kal-L was being published (assuming quality is similar across the board of course) but I might be willing to read Superdad if my only options are him and/or Nuperman (thus far I have given Tomasi a shot, though I dont know how long I'll stick around).

So what would be better? A small Super-line that sells decently, or a large line Super-line where each title sells low?

Now, if you want to publish a multiverse style book where Supermen from multiple worlds (that just happen to resemble various eras from the past) work together to battle hyper-moths and tesseract storms within the Bleed and vampire Monitors, then I am all over that. But I dont think having them share a world is a good idea.

[Sacred Knight]

Who knows why they don't utilize the multiverse more. Outside of Superman himself, nothing has been more mismanaged since they brought it back. But yeah, if they did utilize it, it'd be awesome to see a whole bunch of different versions published, maybe in an anthology alternate-earth themed title. But if they're going to insist on limiting themselves, and every indication is that they are, I think even two is a stretch. I think its workable, and in a sense could even argue it may be necessary for a while if only due to their own massive foul ups with the character over the years, but more than that would be too much.

[phonogram12]

Honestly, I just don't see why they just don't go down the Batman-Morrison route and say that all of his adventures happened. Considering how much more cosmic a character Superman is it makes way more sense for him.

[Ascended]

Who knows why they don't utilize the multiverse more. Outside of Superman himself, nothing has been more mismanaged since they brought it back. But yeah, if they did utilize it, it'd be awesome to see a whole bunch of different versions published, maybe in an anthology alternate-earth themed title. But if they're going to insist on limiting themselves, and every indication is that they are, I think even two is a stretch. I think its workable, and in a sense could even argue it may be necessary for a while if only due to their own massive foul ups with the character over the years, but more than that would be too much.

Short answer is that DC cant keep the continuity of their main line straight, how are they supposed to keep the histories of several realities intact?

Longer answer is that, and Im just spit-balling here, the market itself only seems to have a passing interest in the concept. While a story involving Earth-3 might sell fairly well in Justice League, books set on alternate earths like Batman 66 or Bombshells only sell mid-level at best, despite having decent quality. So for DC, would it even be worth the effort? Isnt it likely, given how fickle and conservative DC fans appear to be, that investing time and money in more multiverse stuff wouldn't sell half as well as a big Event, which are proven money makers?

The shade of COIE might still have an influence too. Obviously DC didnt learn the lesson when it comes to reboots, but they might fear turning their already convoluted history into an even bigger mess if they start crossing worlds on a regular basis.

I wouldnt be surprised if DC feared an alternate version becoming more popular than the main one as well. What if a Vampire Bat-Man series started doing much better than the regular Bat titles? Does DC capitalize on that and bring Vampy over to the main line, Miles Morales style? What sort of problems does that create within the fiction? If they dont take full advantage of that popularity, arent they just letting money fall out of their lap, and wont WB have something to say about that? DC might not see it as worth the hassle.

Obviously some multiverse stuff can be done and succeed (and I support more multiverse stuff personally), but how much of that will the market support? DC might not have as much say in this decision as we think they do.

[suemorphplus209]

Well, what you're suggesting is probably, sort of, what they will be going with.

I honestly don't think it's the right way to go though - There are so many aspects of the different Supermen that I don't think should be "evened out" so to speak - E2 Superman is distinctly different from E1, who is distinctly different from PC and N52.

I think the different Supermen shouldn't be blended, but that they should be allowed to retain their differences - because it's those differences that give the different versions their value! = )

Think about it like ice cream - Chocolate is good, vanilla is good, strawberry is good - even the more quirkier ones like beetroot, rhubarb and cookie dough have their qualities. Buut... if you start mixing them all, you end up with a kind of... less than appetizing mix - better then to serve different types, than to try and serve every one with one single flavour - doesn't really work.

I personally enjoy the multiverse for this very reason, different versions of the character going different ways or living in different circumstances.

[suemorphplus209]

Short answer is that DC cant keep the continuity of their main line straight, how are they supposed to keep the histories of several realities intact?

Longer answer is that, and Im just spit-balling here, the market itself only seems to have a passing interest in the concept. While a story involving Earth-3 might sell fairly well in Justice League, books set on alternate earths like Batman 66 or Bombshells only sell mid-level at best, despite having decent quality. So for DC, would it even be worth the effort? Isnt it likely, given how fickle and conservative DC fans appear to be, that investing time and money in more multiverse stuff wouldn't sell half as well as a big Event, which are proven money makers?

The shade of COIE might still have an influence too. Obviously DC didnt learn the lesson when it comes to reboots, but they might fear turning their already convoluted history into an even bigger mess if they start crossing worlds on a regular basis.

I wouldnt be surprised if DC feared an alternate version becoming more popular than the main one as well. What if a Vampire Bat-Man series started doing much better than the regular Bat titles? Does DC capitalize on that and bring Vampy over to the main line, Miles Morales style? What sort of problems does that create within the fiction? If they dont take full advantage of that popularity, arent they just letting money fall out of their lap, and wont WB have something to say about that? DC might not see it as worth the hassle.

Obviously some multiverse stuff can be done and succeed (and I support more multiverse stuff personally), but how much of that will the market support? DC might not have as much say in this decision as we think they do.

I can't speak for multiverse stuff in general, but getting into some of it for Superman and for the older Batman "Elseworlds". One of the appeals to me for a lot of these alternate universe stories is that the backstory of the character is fairly simple. I mean, All-Star Superman writes the book on a simple origin story right in the opening panels. Other ones stay kind of simple. Otherwise, I am pretty much feeling retro fever here and wishing that DC would just run with something for a while, but considering the reset button mashing that is pretty much the game of the big publishers nowadays, I just don't see it happening. I know it doesn't sound great to wish this, but I am essentially wishing that big relaunches/reboots from Marvel/DC would just stop being the big boosters that they are, just so that the big publishers can stick with a story/character for a while.

[Ascended]

I know it doesn't sound great to wish this, but I am essentially wishing that big relaunches/reboots from Marvel/DC would just stop being the big boosters that they are, just so that the big publishers can stick with a story/character for a while.

I largely feel the same.

For example, Im a big fan of Carol Danvers/Captain Marvel. But since she took up that mantle in 2012 she's had three different series, each with a completely different premise and supporting cast, and this fall she's getting yet another relaunch (though rumor is the current stuff will largely stick around; I guess Marvel likes her where she is now).

Now, each of those series I enjoyed for the most part (though series 2 was fairly weak most of the time) but there's no real sense of continuity; these could all take place on alternate realities with different, but similar, versions of Carol. I understand the appeal of these relaunches as they generate a lot of buzz and pull in high sales initially, but I think its a short term solution that creates a long term problem. Four years of Carol as Captain Marvel and we have virtually no established supporting cast, rogues gallery, or premise. Im sure all these series will look great as trades on the shelf when her movie hits in a couple years and people start eating up her older material, and without doubt stuff like that is part of Marvel's decision making process, but in ten years, or twenty, where will Carol be if she isnt allowed the time to grow and build a world around her? And this is a character that has been around for, what, forty-odd years? That she needs any world building at all is concerning; that she's been getting such focus from Marvel for four years and still doesnt have a status quo to work with is downright troubling.

Nuperman had the same problem; he was thrown from one big Event or crossover into another without any time to just be, and without the benefit of a big shiny new #1 on the cover every eighteen months, the damage became obvious and impossible to ignore.

All in all, its a disconcerting trend that is pushing me out of the hobby.