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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by MollyBarton View Post
    I'm currently reading the two hardcovers, and I'm really enjoying them. I especially love the Siege of Camelot, which is the beginning of the Captain Britain/Black Knight friendship. BFFs!

    The writing did leave a lot to be desired.

    The early stuff has not... date well, no.

    70s into 80s Marvel UK material was very much in tone with 'The Marvel Way' of the 60s. It's a little basic.

    But as any Captain Britain fan knows the roots of the character, and the premise, are sound. Regardless of how inconsistently those have been delivered by some writers (Lobdell, Raab, Remender...)


    Quote Originally Posted by PhantomReporter View Post
    That was actually the high point - MTU was far superior to the CB stories that had come just before. In fact it was arguably the best CB story up to that point.

    You couldn't really go wrong with that creative team. The Big Guns of Marvel, back in the day.

    It saddens me a little that we didn't get more Pete and Brian material, to be honest. Here in the UK 'Super Spider-man & Captain Britain' was the series which printed new Captain Britain stories for a while.

    And of course the the many parallels between Parker and Braddock were quite clear in those early stories.

    For Gwen Stacy or Mary-Jane Watson? We had Courtney Ross.

    For Flash Thompson we had Jacko Tanner.

    Both Pete and Brian were students at University. both were of similar age. Both jumped across the rooftops of their specific cities. Pete swung on ropes. Brian pole vaulted or later hovered very slightly.

    Many folks (and rather incorrectly) assume that because of the name Captain Britain was some kind of analogue for Captain America. Not so. Although he was pretty similar to Spidey in those early days.

  2. #32
    Incredible Member PhantomReporter's Avatar
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    Now i've recovered from my day without sleep, on to the next era:

    CAPTAIN BRITAIN AND THE BLACK KNIGHT.

    13 months after Brian's last appearance in Marvel Team Up 66 (Feb 1978) Marvel UK launched Hulk Comic, a weekly which gave us original British written Hulk stories which were based thematically on the Hulk TV series. It also had back ups such as Night Raven and Black Knight.

    Continuity also followed a unique British viewpoint, ignoring the fact that the Black Knight's soul was in his ancestor's body in the 12th century according to main continuity and established Dane Whitman was in modern England where he was embarked on a quest for Merlin. A year or two later over in Avengers, a 2 parter explained how Dane returned to the present and continuity was married up. All you need to know is that the Black Knight stories spanning Hulk Weekly 1, March 1979 to Hulk Weekly 63, May 1980 in fact took place AFTER Avengers 226, December 1982. (His appearance in Contest of Champions takes place after Av 226 as well). On his return to the present and the UK, Dane somehow connected more with his Arthurian roots and met Merlin as well as became aware about Otherworld.

    So in Hulk 1, he is on a mysterious quest and accidently causes a helicoptor to crash (authorities think BK on his flying horse Valinor is a UFO). Dane lands to help and realising the chopper is carry rare blood supplies to a hospital offers to take it there. Meanwhile a mysterious fair haired stranger in a trenchcoat wanders along the clifftops of the south coast and as the UK authorities launch harrier jets to take down the 'UFO' a listener overhears the radio transmission and realising its true significane runs off declaring 'Hah. We have him now.' 'The Black Knight has BROKEN COVER ... my master would know of this!'

    That master is the wizard Mordred/Modred (spelt both ways) - i'm not sure if this was meant to be the Arthurian Mordred who wasn't a wizard as far as i know although he was allied to his Aunt Morgane Le Fay who is a magic user. As harriers attack, wounding Valinor and causing the Knight to fall from his horse, two Mordred sent demon birds appear - a skipped week later, the huge birds attack Dane as Hulk Weekly 3 opens. He defeats them and finds a cave by the sea to shelter his steed but it appears someone lives there. Suddenly the stranger leaps at Dane!

    During the ensuing fight, Dane is surprised when his ebony blade (which can cut anything) fails to sever the stranger's metal staff but then he realises both weapons have Merlyn's mystic runes on them and as they both stand down, BK reveals he is on a quest for a hero ... and suspects correctly that the amnesiac stranger is in fact Captain Britain!

    Over the coming issues Mordred continues his attacks as Dane and Brian encounter Vortigen the Walker and Vortigen takes Brian on a trip to Otherworld - taking a long path through villages on Earth - a sort of mystic road through real time until the path opens. There were apparently 12 Walkers of British myth but 6 went bad - the other 6, the proud Walkers still fight for good.

    Seperately Dane and Brian fight trolls and other minions of evil before being reunited and meeting Moondog an elf. This is significant because we'll meet other Otherworld elves (this type are diminutive, sort of thin beardless dwarves really) including Cap's future sidekick Jackdaw. They fight goblins and more Walkers - good and bad are introduced - most, like Vortigen are names from Celtic/Ancient British myth like Cormac, Herne the hunter etc. At points in the run, Black Knight is off being the focal hero and Captain Britain is elsewhere on the road to Otherworld with elves and is the focus of an issue or two without Dane. Later we find out that Mordred/Modred is just an underling of a darker force as are other 'Nethergods' such as Mandrac who serve .... later. Oh and Merlin takes an active hand for a run of issues building up to Hulk Weekly 30 and at that point VOLUME THREE of Captain Britain closes.

    When VOLUME FOUR opens its Hulk Weekly 42 (no idea why 11 issues were skipped) and Merlin reveals their foe is Necromon. This is a seriously bad world class foe. A sort of mystical Thanos if you will. In this issue Brian also regains his memory thanks to Merlin - it appears he was flying home after his adventure in NYC with Spidey when he sensed an evil force reaching for his mind (Necromon) and freaks out, forcing the airplane door open and falling into the sea. This leads to months of amnesia and living in a cave until Dane finds him.

    Merlin reveals that in each age the hordes of Necromon rise up and a GREAT HERO rises to drive them back - in the past this was King Arthur. Merlin reveals that since then he has attempted to power new heroes in the same mould as Arthur, to stop the return of Necromon. The results are Black Knight and Captain Britain.

    The issues build to an epic conclusion byv Hulk Weekly 63 - in this time Moondog dies, Jackdaw is introduced, Arthur returns and a ton of heroes and villains from British mythology appear. Necromon is defeated and Arthur declares he will rebuild Camelot on Otherworld and invites Black Knight to join him.

    Captain Britain sticks around until issue 60 when Merlin sends him home as he is needed there - Jackdaw is sent with him.

    So there ends the SECOND/BLACK KNIGHT ERA OF CAPTAIN BRITAIN. It's April 1980 and this time we won't see Brian again until Marvel Superheroes 377 cover dated September 1981 where he will get his updated helmeted look.
    Last edited by PhantomReporter; 06-30-2014 at 06:17 AM.

  3. #33
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    I'm glad that US readers now have access to the Black Knight stories from Hulk comic. Through Marvel Team-UP US readers had seen Brian and Peter Parker interacting, but for the majority of the, these stories weren't know about.

    Brian has so many positive connections throughout the Marvel Universe. He has successfully teamed up with with more than many credit him for, forging a good many allies. Despite what Rick Remender may have tried to retroactively infer in Secret Avengers...

    But no more Remender grumbles. I could literally be here all day. Dane and Brian make awesome team mates. And this is where that all began.

  4. #34
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  5. #35
    Incredible Member PhantomReporter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Sword is Drawn View Post
    I'm glad that US readers now have access to the Black Knight stories from Hulk comic. Through Marvel Team-UP US readers had seen Brian and Peter Parker interacting, but for the majority of the, these stories weren't know about.

    Brian has so many positive connections throughout the Marvel Universe. He has successfully teamed up with with more than many credit him for, forging a good many allies. Despite what Rick Remender may have tried to retroactively infer in Secret Avengers...

    But no more Remender grumbles. I could literally be here all day. Dane and Brian make awesome team mates. And this is where that all began.
    I think Dane has been quite fortunate socially. When writers who didn't get him weren't writing him as stuffy, he comes across as a pretty cool, fun guy but mostly also the voice of reason if things get too out of hand. I think on his friendship with Brian they're on a pretty even keel but there i could see Dane bringing Brian slightly more out of himself and would like to see scenes where they hang out and have a drink at a pub together. Dane was also great friends with Hercules, but there he brought the calming influence to the table.

    I did read BK was pretty down in the Original Sin issue (not yet seen that) - don't know what about but i think as long as that's an occasional trait it won't overwhelm his character, which i see as pretty multi faceted. He can have a tendency to brood or think deep but is generally a social, happy guy. I can personally relate and its fun to see a character written as having many parts. What i don't like is when a bad or lazy writer takes one part of a character and ... i believe the term is Flanderization. Take one thing and make it the sum of the interpretation while ignoring the rest of the character's personality. Much like at times Brian could be insensitive towards Meggan but this is in no way, even a character trait. Its like saying 6 years ago i got snappy while on holiday with friends and some future comic book writer looking at the story of my life writes me as snappy/defining trait. Sadly some don't see any difference between actual character traits and a snapshot of how someone acted at any given time - more people need to understand context.

  6. #36
    Astonishing Member Panic's Avatar
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    Also worth mentioning is Night Raven. Set in 1930's America, it was first drawn by David Lloyd of V for Vendetta fame, and if you're impressed with Ellis' Moon Knights being "done-in-one's", have a look at a little story being told in just the three pages the comic allocated the Night Raven strip:




  7. #37
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    Another cool character. I was of two minds to mention him because he was a Canadian (by birth) character with mostly American set stories although in the Nocturne mini, a British Night Raven (same guy, similar history, set in UK) was established (alt Earth).

    Apart from Brian, Betsy and Dai Thomas (included for his later role in Knights of Pendragon) i don't think there were any heroes introduced in that 1976-80 period at Marvel UK (I will talk seperately about the Union Jacks, Spitfire, Destroyer, Crusaders etc as they were main Marvel to start although most had later M.UK play).

  8. #38
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    I don't really care about Captain Britain but his sister's pretty hot haha

    Seriously though, he's boring. Pete Wisdom could be the new Captain Britain instead. Or Oberon Sexton.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mideon View Post
    I don't really care about Captain Britain but his sister's pretty hot haha

    Seriously though, he's boring. Pete Wisdom could be the new Captain Britain instead. Or Oberon Sexton.

    He's often written pretty badly. Which is why some people do find him a little... unexciting.

    I think that does him a great disservice, though. I really do feel path at Marvel should allow a writer to do a Captain Britain mini outlining a more consistent portrayal of his origins. Actually get to the root of the character. We've seen some writers constantly misportray him, through a combination of poor research and a need to revert the character to other inconsistent periods of his life in comics. Personally I find the excuse 'others have written him in contradictory fashions, so that gives me license to do the same' as a pretty poor defence.

    The Braddock family are fascinating. There's so much about them left unexplored.
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  10. #40
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    "Night-time in the City..."

    It's how it begins. It's how it ends.

    Love Night Raven. A criminally underused character. I tracked down the Nick Fury and Black Widow special which brought Night a Raven into the Marvel universe a while back. I've yet to get a chance to read it.
    It Came From Darkmoor...

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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhantomReporter View Post
    Apart from Brian, Betsy and Dai Thomas (included for his later role in Knights of Pendragon) i don't think there were any heroes introduced in that 1976-80 period at Marvel UK
    Well, admittedly it's a bit of a stretch, but...
    http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/electrom.htm

    Oh, and since we're talking early CB, here's another oft-overlooked member of his early cast who, like Dai Thomas, actually pre-dates Brian. The first blonde female probably mutant telepath in Brian's life.
    http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix6/fraserkate.htm

    Heck, while I'm at it, here's more info on Lance Hunter, head of STRIKE.
    http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/lanchunt.htm

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhantomReporter View Post
    That master is the wizard Mordred/Modred (spelt both ways) - i'm not sure if this was meant to be the Arthurian Mordred who wasn't a wizard as far as i know although he was allied to his Aunt Morgane Le Fay who is a magic user.
    The spelling is inconsistent, but it is Mordred the Evil, nephew (and husband - ick) to Morgan Le Fay
    http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix2/mordredcamelot.htm

    Not to be confused with (though understandably often confused with) Modred the Mystic
    http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix2/modredmystic.htm

    Quote Originally Posted by PhantomReporter View Post
    Oh and Merlin takes an active hand for a run of issues building up to Hulk Weekly 30 and at that point VOLUME THREE of Captain Britain closes.

    When VOLUME FOUR opens its Hulk Weekly 42 (no idea why 11 issues were skipped)
    From the reprints? Because Panini assumed they were just reprints. From Hulk Weekly? Because they'd fallen behind schedule and needed to buy some time for the creators to get ahead again, so they ran the two main heroes' origin stories, a mixture of reprint and, critically, a small smattering of new material which tied those origins and some past adventures more closely to Otherworld. The Marvel US HC reprint volumes included these, because I made sure those assembling the collections were aware of this.

  13. #43
    Incredible Member PhantomReporter's Avatar
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    Electro-Man - very interesting points. It might be a cool homage to one day get a canon story which mentions he was active in the 70's/80's.

    Kate Fraser - I did note her two CB appearances and i wondered why she suddenly vanished. Of her older vintage i had no idea but there's certainly fodder for future storylines with her character.

    Lance Hunter - Again an interesting character that needs to rack up more appearances. What is the current status of STRIKE? I am a few years behind in my trades and currently reading a FEAR ITSELF: Wolverine trade where a bunch of rogue STRIKE agents hijack a decommissioned HAMMER helicarrier and they explicitly state that they have been lying low for years but Wolverine's reporter girlfriend finds intelligence reports which indicate STRIKE is now an active terror organisation.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhantomReporter View Post
    Lance Hunter - Again an interesting character that needs to rack up more appearances. What is the current status of STRIKE? I am a few years behind in my trades and currently reading a FEAR ITSELF: Wolverine trade where a bunch of rogue STRIKE agents hijack a decommissioned HAMMER helicarrier and they explicitly state that they have been lying low for years but Wolverine's reporter girlfriend finds intelligence reports which indicate STRIKE is now an active terror organisation.
    STRIKE is disbanded, with at least some members transferring to RCX and perhaps on to MI13 now. Some members have gone rogue, so I guess that while they might be only a tiny minority, anyone claiming to be a current member is, by definition, one of the rogues, and hence you could make the case that the reporter stated - since the STRIKE that worked for the UK is long gone, any group using the name now are terrorists.

  15. #45
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    If I remember correctly at the end of Fear Itself: Wolverine it is revealed that the STRIKE cell which appeared in that series seemingly was activated by Michelle Scicluna of Black Air, former boss of Pete Wisdom.
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