View Poll Results: Do you think Miles Morales origin should be revised to fit the Marvel Prime Universe (Earth 616)?

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  1. #1
    Mighty Member ijacksparrow's Avatar
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    Question What is the origin of Miles Morales in the Marvel Prime Universe (Earth 616)?

    We've been discussing lately what is the origin of Miles Morales in the Marvel Prime Universe (Earth 616) on a thread drift thread that Mister Mets created about Miles remembering or not the events that happened in the Ultimate Universe. The character's creator, Brian Michael Bendis, has gone on record on interviews saying that the character "remembers everything", but at the same time never mentions anything about Miles knowing that he came from an alternate Earth where that world's Peter Parker died and he took over the mantle and the Spider-Man's name from there. Bendis reasoning for not mentioning is a good one, he feels the character that there won't be "fish out of water" stories of the characters, a reasoning that I wholeheartedly agree with: mentioning the Ultimate Universe and most of the events that Miles endured during there would just overcomplicate things for the character, instead of broadening his appeal.

    With that said, with that comes a dilemma. A dilemma that Bendis or whoever is writing the character and his old fans will have to face: the character as it stands right now doesn't have an in story origin that works. I've been accused by some of his old fans of hating the character, and what they don't seem to understand is that I don't hate the character, what I hate is how he has been handled so far, and I'm hardly the only one. Washington Post's Afro-Boriqua writer David Betancourt summed up on this article recently most of the reasonings that I have why I think the character could be handled better:

    But just as I reluctantly admit that Morales, in his historic run as Spider-Man, hasn’t done anything outlandishly Puerto Rican (no dominoes, no wondering why that last Menudo group never came out with a full album, no eating abuela’s arroz y habichuelas, no mention of the debt crisis) or black (no debating being a superhero of color — one who has his skin color covered up, granted — in the Black Lives Matter era), I have to assume that same feeling of a lack of authentic voice will come over me when I read Riri.

    Bendis’s heart is in the right place. And for those who don’t know, he is proudly the father of black children, and he’d have an invested interest in making sure the company he works for reflects his diverse family.

    Marvel at some point is going to have to realize that these announcements of diversity can only be halfway celebrated if the diversity isn’t behind the pages and not just in the panels. Somewhere there is a half African American/half Puerto Rican kid that would love to write Morales. (Heck, there’s a half African American/half Puerto Rican guy writing this story. They’re not hard to find, especially in New York)
    While that above is my biggest problem with the character, I want to repeat what I've said countless times to deaf ears around here: I do see the potential of the character. I do think he plays an important role, and that he should become a key spider related character in the Marvel Comics Universe and the Marvel Cinematic Universe. I think he has more potential than either Spider-Man 2099, Spider-Gwen and even more so than Silk, but I like all these characters better than him right now because all of them are more consistently better written than him. And that's why I criticize Miles portrayal: not because he is an "objectively bad character", because I don't really believe that even exists such a thing: he's a character with great potential that I feel it's very poorly written on his solo, and it's going through some "entering the Marvel Prime Universe (Earth 616)" growing pains that need to be addressed, rather sooner than later.

    What I mean is that the character has the opportunity now in the main Marvel Comics Universe of playing the big league, he has been an Avenger and he's about to become a Champion alongside Ms. Marvel, Nova, Amadeus "Hulk" Cho, Viv and Cyclops. But there's also an opportunity to make a revision of his origin story and make it fit with the Earth 616 Universe. Spider-Man never died at hands of Green Goblin in Earth 616 revealing his real identity in the process. Spidey did reveal his origin in the first Civil War but all of that was revised with the help of Doctor Strange, Tony Stark and Reed Richards. So what I'd like to see is Marvel Comics tackling the fact that Miles doesn't really have an origin story that works in universe right now, and it seems that they might have already start doing just that:



    This is a Marvel 101 video published on Marvel's Official Youtube, Twitter and Facebook pages. They are designed to give a basic character rundown on their origins and powers. Notice how subtly different it is from the one currently published with Miles Morales comics:



    "Bitten by a radioactive spider, he gained spider-like abilities and donned a colorful costume to fight crime and injustice. But wait! Miles didn't want to be a super-hero. He wanted a normal life as a normal teen-ager, but inspiration from the first wall-crawler illuminated his destiny, and the new Spider-Man hit the scene. Gifted with web-shooters, and guided by Peter Parker, Miles uses his abilities to stick to walls, sense immediate danger, produce a venom strike and camouflage himself to be a different kind of Spider-Man. Maybe the world's not ready for him, but he's proving his worth as an Avenger, a fighter and a winner". Outside their comics, that's how Marvel is presenting Miles to the world. Those with an attention to the details will get that instead of a "genetically altered" spider, they are saying that he was biten by a "radioactive" spider, which falls perfectly in line with how Spider-Man came to be in Earth 616. Also, instead of any mentions whatsoever about Miles taking over after Peter Parker's death, it's said that he's "under the guidance of Peter Parker". All of this seems very much more aligned with Earth 616 than the Ultimate Universe, and it's a great start. But it would be nice from Marvel to give us some sort of "Miles Morales: First Semester" storyline, with the basics of how he got his powers. I'd say that's an opportunity to directly link his impulse to do the best of his spider powers not just out of admiration for Spider-Man, but also to directly link his motivations to his Uncle Aaron evil deeds, basically doing a "reverse Uncle Ben" type of cautionary tale. I even suggested how that could happen, but that might be just me. Marvel doing an effort to make sense of Miles on this video is a great start, but at the end of the day completely meta. It would be good to finally see this addressed on his books, mostly because right now it makes very little sense what his motivations even are to putting on the costume and risking his life day in and day out. "Being Spider-Man is cool" is just not good enough for my tastes.

    What about you, do you think Miles Morales origin should be revised to fit the Marvel Prime Universe (Earth 616)?
    Pull list:

    Marvel Comics: All-New, All-Different Guardians of the Galaxy, Amazing Spider-Man and Peter Parker: Spectacular Spider-Man

    "You know... the world could always use more heroes" -Tracer


  2. #2
    Incredible Member Highland Chicken's Avatar
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    It's Bendis, just accept you're not going to get a clear/good answer and move on.
    "I can talk to spiders"
    - Kaine Parker

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member UltimateTy's Avatar
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    You need to let this thing go bro.
    We need better comics

  4. #4
    Mighty Member ijacksparrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UltimateTy View Post
    You need to let this thing go bro.
    "Letting it go" would mean that I don't really care about a character that I do see potential of growth. He needs some adjustments to fit the Marvel Prime Universe, and what mostly pissed me off about his creation always was the fact that Ultimate Peter Parker had to die for him to exist. Well, Ultimate Peter and the Ultimate Universe are no more. All I'm asking is for his origin to make sense within the universe he is. That's something that would guarantee the character to have longevity and a huge run ahead of him. I really dislike Bendis writing lately, but that doesn't mean that I don't see the value on Miles and what he brings to the Spider-Man mythos.
    Pull list:

    Marvel Comics: All-New, All-Different Guardians of the Galaxy, Amazing Spider-Man and Peter Parker: Spectacular Spider-Man

    "You know... the world could always use more heroes" -Tracer


  5. #5
    Junior Member Cosmic Spider's Avatar
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    Miles does have a (616?) origin. He is a refugee from another Universe.

    In my mind, Whether or not this is actually 616? And/or does 616 still exist? Are more pertinent questions.

    For the Time being I am continuing to call this Universe 616 for the sake of convenience. Does anybody know if Marvel is calling this 616? Or is that something only Nerds like myself could possibly care about?
    Life is the algorithm through which Goddess explores the infinite possibilities of Her own existence.

  6. #6
    Mighty Member ijacksparrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Spider View Post
    Miles does have a (616?) origin. He is a refugee from another Universe.

    In my mind, Whether or not this is actually 616? And/or does 616 still exist? Are more pertinent questions.

    For the Time being I am continuing to call this Universe 616 for the sake of convenience. Does anybody know if Marvel is calling this 616? Or is that something only Nerds like myself could possibly care about?
    I still call it Earth 616, and most of people online call it that too. Marvel writers and editors call it "Marvel Prime Universe" tho, which sounds silly and reminds me of "DC Prime Universe" too. Hell, my cellphone blockscreen is 616. :P

    Calling him a refugee from another universe doesn't bode well for the character's longevity, and that's the kind of confusion that I'm trying to make Marvel to stop. If they are serious about him being around, he needs an origin story in continuity. "Refugee from another universe" Spider-Man doesn't look really good.
    Pull list:

    Marvel Comics: All-New, All-Different Guardians of the Galaxy, Amazing Spider-Man and Peter Parker: Spectacular Spider-Man

    "You know... the world could always use more heroes" -Tracer


  7. #7
    Junior Member Cosmic Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zauri View Post
    I still call it Earth 616, and most of people online call it that too. Marvel writers and editors call it "Marvel Prime Universe" tho, which sounds silly and reminds me of "DC Prime Universe" too. Hell, my cellphone blockscreen is 616. :P

    Calling him a refugee from another universe doesn't bode well for the character's longevity, and that's the kind of confusion that I'm trying to make Marvel to stop. If they are serious about him being around, he needs an origin story in continuity. "Refugee from another universe" Spider-Man doesn't look really good.
    Marvel Prime Universe...Interesting.

    I am playing around with the concept that the destruction of all these Universes is a direct result of OMD. Basically, When Peter made the Devil Deal He really, Really, Really, F#$%$d up the works. Admittedly, I am biased, I could probably find a way to blame just about anything on OMD.
    Life is the algorithm through which Goddess explores the infinite possibilities of Her own existence.

  8. #8
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    The origin is super screwed up and definitely needs some TLC.

  9. #9
    Incredible Member HereNThere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zauri View Post
    What about you, do you think Miles Morales origin should be revised to fit the Marvel Prime Universe (Earth 616)?
    Yes, I do. Personally, I would also take this time to separate his origin further from Spider-Man, so that he fits in his own little place, rather than have it be someone who wants to recreate Spider-Man. You know, allow him to get his powers on his own terms, not connected from Peter, if that makes sense, despite the basics being similar. I'd probably find a way to incorporate his Father's S.H.I.E.L.D background in his origin somehow.

  10. #10
    Mighty Member ijacksparrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HereNThere View Post
    Yes, I do. Personally, I would also take this time to separate his origin further from Spider-Man, so that he fits in his own little place, rather than have it be someone who wants to recreate Spider-Man. You know, allow him to get his powers on his own terms, not connected from Peter, if that makes sense, despite the basics being similar. I'd probably find a way to incorporate his Father's S.H.I.E.L.D background in his origin somehow.
    While I understand why you'd want something like that, I'd say it's kind of too late for that. I really like how there's potential of telling a cautionary tale about his Uncle Aaron with Miles origin tho. There's potential for a Spider character that had the opposite of an Uncle Ben figure and decided to use his powers for good. The best way I could see that playing out is having Miles looking up to his Uncle Aaron even more than his father or his mother, but getting disgusted and gutted when he learns about his criminal ways. Somehow, that would put his family in danger and become the reason why he decides to use his powers for good. The whole bitten by a spider thing and using Spider-Man's name has already been established tho, and same goes for the "under the guidance of Peter Parker" thing, which I have no problems with.
    Pull list:

    Marvel Comics: All-New, All-Different Guardians of the Galaxy, Amazing Spider-Man and Peter Parker: Spectacular Spider-Man

    "You know... the world could always use more heroes" -Tracer


  11. #11
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    they just killed an entire universe leaving Miles and his supporting casts the only surviving members because the character is that popular. whatever happened to the rest of the characters like Doctor Strange, Beetle, Gwen, May, Eddie Brock, Kate Bishop, Peter's clones, and Peter and Mary Jane i don't know. somehow Miles and his supporting casts are the only ones who survive making Miles into even more of a trouble maker.

  12. #12
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    Its not really random. Miles talked to the source and so when the source reset things he did Miles a favor in exchange for hamburger. Kinda of Kooky sure but not hardly random.

  13. #13
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Spider View Post
    Marvel Prime Universe...Interesting.

    I am playing around with the concept that the destruction of all these Universes is a direct result of OMD. Basically, When Peter made the Devil Deal He really, Really, Really, F#$%$d up the works. Admittedly, I am biased, I could probably find a way to blame just about anything on OMD.
    I like that idea. Cascading collapse of the Multiverse caused by the metaphysical ripples from rewriting reality and history so that Peter and Mary Jane never got married. That would be doable, if Marvel was willing to commit to the realization that OMD was a very bad idea, a very bad thing that never should have been done or even conceived in the first place. As for the actual topic, I like Zauri's ideas for reworking Miles's origin now that he's been worked into the fabric of the main Marvel Universe, whether it's called 616 or "Prime." Having Uncle Aaron as a reverse Uncle Ben whose criminality and the danger it brings to Miles's family causes Miles to don the webs to stop him, using a Spider-Man disguise so Aaron will think it's just Spider-Man busting criminals as usual and have no reason to go after Miles's family in retaliation would be a good way of handling his backstory. Then Peter could hear about "Spider-Man" busting Aaron, check him out to see if he's not another villainous impostor who's gonna ruin his reputation, and upon learning Miles's good nature and intentions, decides it would be best to equip and guide Miles himself, nurturing a worthy possible successor should he kick the bucket from all the dangerous villains and situations he's been up against.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  14. #14
    Mighty Member ijacksparrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marvelguy25 View Post
    they just killed an entire universe leaving Miles and his supporting casts the only surviving members because the character is that popular. whatever happened to the rest of the characters like Doctor Strange, Beetle, Gwen, May, Eddie Brock, Kate Bishop, Peter's clones, and Peter and Mary Jane i don't know. somehow Miles and his supporting casts are the only ones who survive making Miles into even more of a trouble maker.
    Quote Originally Posted by JediKage View Post
    Its not really random. Miles talked to the source and so when the source reset things he did Miles a favor in exchange for hamburger. Kinda of Kooky sure but not hardly random.
    Yeah and that's the whole reason why his fans from the Ultimate days would be doing the character a giant favor for understanding that the character really needs a revision of his origin. Can a character to have an origin this much convoluted and have a book? Yes. Yes he's doing it fine, but for how long? A character to survive the long run needs a premise and an origin story. As it stands right now Miles is Spider-Man because he is Spider-Man and Spider-Man approves. Or his in origin story is that he's a Spider-Man from an universe that died in Secret Wars and he's now in the Marvel Prime Universe because of an hamburger, remembering but not remembering what happened in the Ultimate Universe, never mentioning that either he became Spider-Man after Peter Parker of that universe "died" and then cameback, or how his mother was dead and he quitted being Spider-Man for a full year.

    In social media I see people getting confused all the time about how he came to be, and most often than not what they think is that Peter Parker is dead and he is the new Spider-Man. When that's not true in the Marvel Earth 616. Their old fans need to understand that his Ultimate origin is way too convoluted to keep as it is, especially since he's part of Earth 616. Does anyone that loves the character really like him getting talked as the "refugee of a dead universe" Spider-Man? Because that doesn't look cool at all to me.
    Pull list:

    Marvel Comics: All-New, All-Different Guardians of the Galaxy, Amazing Spider-Man and Peter Parker: Spectacular Spider-Man

    "You know... the world could always use more heroes" -Tracer


  15. #15
    Mighty Member ijacksparrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    I like that idea. Cascading collapse of the Multiverse caused by the metaphysical ripples from rewriting reality and history so that Peter and Mary Jane never got married. That would be doable, if Marvel was willing to commit to the realization that OMD was a very bad idea, a very bad thing that never should have been done or even conceived in the first place. As for the actual topic, I like Zauri's ideas for reworking Miles's origin now that he's been worked into the fabric of the main Marvel Universe, whether it's called 616 or "Prime." Having Uncle Aaron as a reverse Uncle Ben whose criminality and the danger it brings to Miles's family causes Miles to don the webs to stop him, using a Spider-Man disguise so Aaron will think it's just Spider-Man busting criminals as usual and have no reason to go after Miles's family in retaliation would be a good way of handling his backstory. Then Peter could hear about "Spider-Man" busting Aaron, check him out to see if he's not another villainous impostor who's gonna ruin his reputation, and upon learning Miles's good nature and intentions, decides it would be best to equip and guide Miles himself, nurturing a worthy possible successor should he kick the bucket from all the dangerous villains and situations he's been up against.
    I'm not opposed to OMD as much as my fellow Spider-Man fans, I'm actually ok with Marvel ending the marriage. With that said, I completely agree that it was contrived as hell, and I'm still waiting for an epic storyline with Peter beating the crap out of Mephisto and knowing what happened to him. I think that would be a nice compromise between old and new fans of Spider-Man without really bringing the marriage back, and I actually have hopes that's what Clone Conspiracy is actually about.

    With that said, I really like where you're going with the whole Uncle Aarong angle here. And I actually like the idea of Peter guiding Miles, that's an angle that I'd love to see Marvel playing with. You see, you don't need to make Miles overpowered as hell to make me care about him, Marvel and Bendis. You just need to make him a compelling character. I don't need him to be "the best Spider-Man ever that beats Blackheart when not even the Avengers and Spider-Man couldn't", but a guy with a reason for doing what he does. Right now, he doesn't have a reason to be Spider-Man and risk his life other than Spider-Man's approval, and that's just too little reasoning. Spider-Man shouldn't never be just about "how cool it is to be Spider-Man" opposed to be a regular kid, or how Spidey is the best of all and the most overpowered of all with an ex machina venom sting to save the day and that's it. He is about power and responsibility, and how to juggle all of that with his personal life. Linking his origin to the whole Uncle Aaron thing gives him reasoning to do what he does, and that's way more than Marvel Comics has done for explaining why Miles does what he does lately.
    Pull list:

    Marvel Comics: All-New, All-Different Guardians of the Galaxy, Amazing Spider-Man and Peter Parker: Spectacular Spider-Man

    "You know... the world could always use more heroes" -Tracer


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