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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atlanta96 View Post
    That... was a bit harsh. But I agree that what happened to Jason was even more horrifying than what happened to Barbara. Mostly because he, well, died horribly. Even his resurrection was disturbing. Waking up in your own grave is just creepy.
    And it has much more influence on the character. Barbara usually appears in every Animated Batman series (and other alternate universes) without getting crippled.
    I don't think that we will ever get series (or any other alternate universe) with Jason as Robin without something like a death in the family, even when he appears in elseworld one shots he usually dies.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    And it has much more influence on the character. Barbara usually appears in every Animated Batman series (and other alternate universes) without getting crippled.
    I don't think that we will ever get series (or any other alternate universe) with Jason as Robin without something like a death in the family, even when he appears in elseworld one shots he usually dies.
    Thats alright, he wasnt a very good robin. It was like the writers never stopped writing Dick and thats what annoyed a lot of readers that were fond of him, they felt like he just got easily replaced. As Red hood hes a very good batman foil tho, so theres no reason to use one over the other.

  3. #48
    Mind Controller Arnoldoaad's Avatar
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    This didnt solidifies that it happen
    but HOW it happen
    and it does it very standard, its pretty much how it happen on TJK

    the good thing that I got from this is that it seems that all those ¨revisions¨ from issue 8,
    are no longer there, like Gordon not being in the room.
    It makes the story what it is intended to be and it is just more or less what happen in TKJ.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Kal-el View Post
    No because in the last Batgirl series it was revealed she had false memories we just didn't know what. Not a reboot
    the genius of it is that it becomes a ¨pick what you want to pick¨
    which really makes it flexible for later stories and it can still be utilized later.
    It was never I believe intended to remove it at all because it always goes back to her having the possible fake memories because of the implant she has on the spine.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muffin Crud View Post
    I'll never understand objection to what is Barbara's defining character and easily one of the best in comics. Oracle was/is saying "I'm not going to be a forgotten victim" and it's one of the most empowering messages ever.
    Because that was a case of OTHER writers adding onto Barbara's character later on. Turning a negative into something of a positive if you will. But it does nothing to boost TKJ since that was clearly not Moore or DC's intentions at the time. Heck Moore has said that DC was pretty dismissive/flippant about doing that to Barbara, which is very telling. And even he has expressed regrets for how it played out.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lhynn View Post
    Thats alright, he wasnt a very good robin. It was like the writers never stopped writing Dick and thats what annoyed a lot of readers that were fond of him, they felt like he just got easily replaced.
    He can be a fun charcter if you do it right, look for example at the DCAU-Tim Drake, thats basically what Jason just that the writers gave him Tims name because of the thing with Death in the Family.

    Btw. Jason was introduced more then 10 years after Dick left Wayne Manor at mostly appeared in solo stories and Titans, at this time Jason was quite different from the current version of Dick, and the difference between Tim and how Dick was written for a good part of his career is also not so big.

    Killing Joke never prevented Barbara from being used in any adaptation, and in most of this adaptations she doesn't get crippled. But thing is as soon Jason would appear somewhere every one would waiting for him to die.
    Last edited by Aahz; 07-22-2016 at 11:24 PM.

  6. #51
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post
    Because that was a case of OTHER writers adding onto Barbara's character later on. Turning a negative into something of a positive if you will. But it does nothing to boost TKJ since that was clearly not Moore or DC's intentions at the time. Heck Moore has said that DC was pretty dismissive/flippant about doing that to Barbara, which is very telling. And even he has expressed regrets for how it played out.
    This. I don't understand what it was that these writers hated about Batgirl... but it wasn't enough to just NOT WRITE HER... They wanted to kill her, destroy her, and salt the earth with her.

    Between Moore shooting her on a Joker whim.... and FranK Miller writing her out of existence in Year one... there was some serious Batgirl hate going on.

  7. #52
    Incredible Member Cowtools's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    This. I don't understand what it was that these writers hated about Batgirl... but it wasn't enough to just NOT WRITE HER... They wanted to kill her, destroy her, and salt the earth with her.
    And the weird thing is, DC did the same thing with Cassandra Cain, and Stephanie Brown too. Try to deliberately undermine the characters and write them out as if they never existed.

    Hmmm....there's some kind of pattern here. I can't quite put my finger on it...

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Why doesn't she belong there?
    She is just a lame character. I've disliked her since No Man's Land. The comic was great in the beginning. Because it was just Barbara and Dinah. Then the writers had to go and mess it up by adding her to the team. I was hoping when New 52 came around. They would leave her off the team, but no such luck and it seems we are going to be stuck with her again.

  9. #54
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    This Huntress and that Huntress are pretty much different characters. Not that i had a problem with Pre-52 Huntress.

  10. #55
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    I liked pre-52 helena more.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lhynn View Post
    I liked pre-52 helena more.
    I like Pre-52 Helena too. I mean the new 52 Helena is a bit more nosy given her time in Spryal and the fact that she already knows who Babs and Dinah are.

    She doesn't seem like a mobster daughter who is disgusted with her family's legacy like the old one was.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowtools View Post
    And the weird thing is, DC did the same thing with Cassandra Cain, and Stephanie Brown too. Try to deliberately undermine the characters and write them out as if they never existed.

    Hmmm....there's some kind of pattern here. I can't quite put my finger on it...
    Steph is something of a break from the pattern in that they started treating her like crap before she became Batgirl.

  13. #58
    Astonishing Member dancj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neonrideraryeh View Post
    They were originally going to strip her naked and there is older draft art that has that, but they decided to not go that direction. The final published product doesn't have nakedness. She isn't wearing too much but they didn't go that far in the end. A lot of people who didn't read it think that is the case though.
    Look again:
    Last edited by dancj; 07-25-2016 at 04:50 AM.

  14. #59
    LukeBoro
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    vote for Joker!

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