In order of Offense ...

[MasterOfMagnetism]

For anyone still offended by the "offense" of Iceman being gay I'm gonna' post something I've already written elsewhere.

--
Despite what some people said, Iceman being gay made sense; if a character like Scott Summers, Reed Richards or Peter Parker came out as gay it wouldn't make sense because those characters have had long-lasting iconic relationships with women but Iceman who was portrayed as being insecure, was raised by a narrow-minded bigoted father and had various flings with women he couldn't sustain, it fit that Bobby could be a "closet-case".

And most of the people who were upset by Iceman being gay didn't even give a **** about Iceman, they were just angry on the "principle" of not "turning" straight characters gay and using new gay characters instead. Those same people do not give a **** about new gay characters anyway. It's like with the give Cap a boyfriend thing; plenty of straight people get angry and say things like "use Wiccan and Hulkling instead of making Cap gay" but you will NEVER hear those people say "give us a Young Avengers movie where Wiccan and Hulkling fall in love with each other".
--

People need to seriously get over it. But then again people need to get over a lot of these "offenses".

[Pants]

I think the biggest offense is that they are charging $5 a pop for this rubbish. I was going to pick up the final issue of Contest of Champions today and saw it was $5 and put all of my Marvel issues back on the rack. I am done with all of this trash until they do their own Rebirth next year. I've been reading Marvel books for more than 40 years and have no clue what the hell is going on in any title. Even though Secret Wars stunk, I was at least hoping the reboot that followed would temper the chaotic nature of all the titles somewhat and all it did was ramp it up. All I see now is a contempt for reader (long time and new), a contempt for Marvel's history and characters, and Marvel trying to make as much cash as they can before they implode in two years, unless they pull a Rebirth and actually pull it off.

[Supermutant2099]

For anyone still offended by the "offense" of Iceman being gay I'm gonna' post something I've already written elsewhere.

--
Despite what some people said, Iceman being gay made sense; if a character like Scott Summers, Reed Richards or Peter Parker came out as gay it wouldn't make sense because those characters have had long-lasting iconic relationships with women but Iceman who was portrayed as being insecure, was raised by a narrow-minded bigoted father and had various flings with women he couldn't sustain, it fit that Bobby could be a "closet-case".

And most of the people who were upset by Iceman being gay didn't even give a **** about Iceman, they were just angry on the "principle" of not "turning" straight characters gay and using new gay characters instead. Those same people do not give a **** about new gay characters anyway. It's like with the give Cap a boyfriend thing; plenty of straight people get angry and say things like "use Wiccan and Hulkling instead of making Cap gay" but you will NEVER hear those people say "give us a Young Avengers movie where Wiccan and Hulkling fall in love with each other".
--

People need to seriously get over it. But then again people need to get over a lot of these "offenses".

As someone who looking time x-man fan and iceman fan I'm offended that you say I don't give a crap about a character. All those points really don't equal. I'm sorry but your projecting something on character that wasn't there. I have nothing against gay characters. I hope we get to see wican and hulking young avengers movie. Randomly making someone gay because small % of fan base says he is doesn't make it line up with characters history.

[MasterOfMagnetism]

As someone who looking time x-man fan and iceman fan I'm offended that you say I don't give a crap about a character. All those points really don't equal. I'm sorry but your projecting something on character that wasn't there. I have nothing against gay characters. I hope we get to see wican and hulking young avengers movie. Randomly making someone gay because small % of fan base says he is doesn't make it line up with characters history.

I'm not saying literally everyone who objected the character being gay doesn't care about the character. And if it was really such a small percentage of people that believed he should be gay than why was he outed as gay? I mean they even made a joke about it on Family Guy, I know whenever that's mentioned people say; "it's just family Guy, they do random stuff' but I highly doubt Seth MacFarlane and the Family Guy writers just randomly chose Iceman and they were like "umm I don't know, let's do a joke about him being a closet-case".

I don't think a supposedly small amount of people, or "trolls" as you put it, would be able to influence comics that much.

[SplinteringHeart]

Hey don't forget Namor killed by Hyperion/Squad Supreme!

Biggest offence for me is just all these "deaths" of classic characters...with or without them coming back, eventually, I just really dislike it...Bruce Banner being the latest, come on!!!

Oh yes, and all these constant bloody events series..I'm sick of them!

I also don‘t like all the political correctness that is going on, and the dramatic changes involved, and yet I'm generally a pretty PC person...

Bottom line, I'm still mentally stuck with old, traditional Marvel from say the 1960s/1970s...and I don‘t like the changes which are for a new, modern and younger audience...I appreciate that it‘s necessary, but I'm an old Marvel fan, stick in the mud and not taking kindly to all the change...I've reduced and will be reducing my Marvel titles accordingly......probably take more DC stuff instead...

Plus of course the price....Marvel sticks with $3.99 rigidly, but also bumps up to $4.99 "at the drop of a hat"....I've never read anything that Marvel has priced at $4.99 that was worth it and justifiable, which includes this bloody Civil War II nonsense, it's all just a continuing rip-off!

I‘be been reading Marvel Comics for 40+ years, " man and boy", but I'm now on the edge, and looking at giving it up and leaving it to you youngsters....out with the old, in with the new eh?

Jon

[Supermutant2099]

I'm not saying literally everyone who objected the character being gay doesn't care about the character. And if it was really such a small percentage of people that believed he should be gay than why was he outed as gay? I mean they even made a joke about it on Family Guy, I know whenever that's mentioned people say; "it's just family Guy, they do random stuff' but I highly doubt Seth MacFarlane and the Family Guy writers just randomly chose Iceman and they were like "umm I don't know, let's do a joke about him being a closet-case".

I don't think a supposedly small amount of people, or "trolls" as you put it, would be able to influence comics that much.

So we now base on comic history on what writers on family guy say? WTF? I think they did cause it was funny or someone heard at con thought it be funny stick it in. Just because it was family guy doesn't mean most fans agreed with it either. Bendis does whatever he wants anyway if its popular or not. I mean look at cwii. Plus seems to be also please SJW instead of promoting the real gay/lesbians characters at marvel. Marvel likes making headlines at the expanse of characters and story.

[dan12456]

Honestly none of them offend me, there's tons of back matter for me to read the old status quo. But here are the top 5 that I think are 100% fine or even a good change and the reactions were unnecessary.

1. X-23 as Wolverine: Seems like a natural legacy progression. If it wasn't for the other mantle changes I don't think anyone would be angry about this. Plus the story quality is great.
2.Captain America hails Hydra: Obviously this was just a story hook, there are dozens of stories where the hero is teased as going bad for a couple pages or on a final panel. I couldn't for the life of me get why everyone lost it.
3.Secret Wars "Everything Lives" reset: Welcome to comics, where everything returns to status quo and no one ever dies.
4.International Parker and Parker Industries: Peter grew up, about time.
5.Iceman revealed to be gay: This one comes with an asterisk. I have a friend who is a massive X-fan, he told me the Iceman reveal wasn't very shocking and there has been hints in the subtext of various runs that he was at least bi. He said he always thought it was possible. If so then the freakout is ridiculous and people should read the stories closer. But I haven't actually read any of what he was referring to myself so he could always be wrong.

HM: Banner killed by Hawkeye: I feel like this is a decent story idea that isn't too out of character (just because Hawkeye doesn't kill doesn't mean in a completely different situation where he is honouring a friends request he wouldn't feel pressure to do so). The issue is simply that it wasn't handled well.

[MasterOfMagnetism]

So we now base on comic history on what writers on family guy say? WTF? I think they did cause it was funny or someone heard at con thought it be funny stick it in. Just because it was family guy doesn't mean most fans agreed with it either. Bendis does whatever he wants anyway if its popular or not. I mean look at cwii. Plus seems to be also please SJW instead of promoting the real gay/lesbians characters at marvel. Marvel likes making headlines at the expanse of characters and story.

My point was the fact they made a joke about it on Family Guy shows that's it was more than just a handful of people on the internet who were aware of the theory that Iceman was gay and closeted. Some people acted like it was literally just the gay people on this site that were responsible for Iceman being gay.

But for all the accusations that Marvel "panders to SJWs" they certainly don't care about promoting LGBT characters, they've been steadily decreasing the number of LGBT characters appearing in their books.

[nnelg]

1. The death of Wolverine. I have no problem with X-23. She wasn't named Wolverine until at least a year after.

2. The whisper is stupid. Instead of Fury whispering in Thor's ear it should've been Odin. Its simple. Thor chooses to protect Midgard instead of Asgard. Odin gets pissed declares Thor unworthy because he ignored his duties as defender of Asgard again. Or Thor is fighting someone like Galactus and is hit so hard he almost dies and has to recuperate using Odin/Thor sleep. When he is damaged Mjolnir falls to earth and is picked up by Jane. If the first scenario is used then Asgard still needs a defender then Odin bestows Mjolnir to Sif or Valkyrie until Thor's worthiness is proven again. Simple.

3. Dr. Doom is to good for Ironman.


4.Nazi-Cap shouldn't exist unless it is in a What If.



5. She-Hulk is to strong to be knocked out with a missile. Crap writing by someone who doesn't know the characters.


6. Hawkeye see 5.


7.Falcon as Cap is fine with me. But most Steve fans want to read Steve. I do not see the offense in that. Just some people want to make the complaints about something that they're not about. The same with all of the other legacy characters.


8. Iceman revealed as gay was stupid but I see what they are doing.


9. Cyclops has sucked for years. At least he isn't being ruined anymore.


10. Cho as Hulk see 7


11. Riri as Ironman see 7


12. MJ should be married to Peter not Starks assistant. Where is Pepper?

[nnelg]

I think the biggest offense is that they are charging $5 a pop for this rubbish. I was going to pick up the final issue of Contest of Champions today and saw it was $5 and put all of my Marvel issues back on the rack. I am done with all of this trash until they do their own Rebirth next year. I've been reading Marvel books for more than 40 years and have no clue what the hell is going on in any title. Even though Secret Wars stunk, I was at least hoping the reboot that followed would temper the chaotic nature of all the titles somewhat and all it did was ramp it up. All I see now is a contempt for reader (long time and new), a contempt for Marvel's history and characters, and Marvel trying to make as much cash as they can before they implode in two years, unless they pull a Rebirth and actually pull it off.

I agree 100%. Maybe if they didn't charge 3.99-4.99 for their lower tier titles they might just sell.

[RobinFan4880]

Doesn't Matter:

- Falcon as Captain America: Heroes change mantles all the time. Steve was going to be back. Not a big deal.

- Captain America hails Hydra: a lame story focused on the manipulation of time. It will be resolved and set right, eventually.

- X-23 as Wolverine, mantles change all the time. People make a big deal of of this stuff for no reason.

- Jane Foster as Thor: again, mantles. Jeez.

- Cho as Hulk: people love to complain. Banner will be back.

- Warmachine killed by Thanos: heroes die and come back. Meh.

- She-Hulk knocked out by a missile: convenience of the plot. Dumb but not a big deal. This is more of a problem of lack of forethought. They just needed to say Warmachine had a Thanos-hurting missile. One line of dialogue justifies the story. Such lines matter more in the story than they do after the fact on tumbler.

- Secret Wars "Everything Lives" reset: how the heck else was this story going to resolve? Non-issue.

- Iceman revealed to be gay: he's been in the closet for decades. Lots of writers have hinted that he is bi or full gay. Not that big of a deal. It would have been better if he came out as BI, since that would mean he flip flops between the two but this was just another case of bi-erasure. Not a huge deal, really.

- International Parker and Parker Industries, just a story, not a big deal.

- MJ is Stark's Assistant, just a story. She'll be back in Peter's world eventually.

- Dr. Doom Ironman, he's basically already evil magic Iron Man. Him becoming Iron Man isn't a big deal. Like Lex Luthor joining the Justice League. Eventually he will go back to being evil.

- Riri Ironman, mantle taker. Not a big deal.

[autbey]

Iron Man attacking the Phoenix Force and causing it to posses the Extinction Team.

Wanda's BF that caused the loss of powers in countless mutants and the deaths of possibly thousands and convincing Doom that he was responsible.

[RobinFan4880]

Iron Man attacking the Phoenix Force and causing it to posses the Extinction Team.

What the heck else were you supposed to do when a planet destroying force of nature comes knocking?

[Supermutant2099]

- Iceman revealed to be gay, he's been in the closet for decades. Lots of writers have hinted that he is bi or full gay. Not that big of a deal. It would have been better if he came out as BI, since that would mean he flip flops between the two but this was just another case of bi-erasure. Not a huge deal, really.

Aka "we see things that were not there because we wanted to be something that he wasn't and we found someone who likes ignoring characters history that agrees with us. So we are right" Even though not true. Even though being done for headlines and not for story and character.

[RobinFan4880]

Aka "we see things that were not there because we wanted to be something that he wasn't and we found someone who likes ignoring characters history that agrees with us. So we are right" Even though not true. Even though being done for headlines and not for story and character.

No, they were there. You just didn't see them because you believed only what was written and did not read between the lines.