Major possible Tim Drake SPOILERS

[JasonTodd428]

I agree about his parents; to me, that alteration to his history was not a bad idea by Lobdell/editorial. Rather, their idea behind it's implementation and purpose was shoddy. A Tim who does not constantly interact or think about his family and the normal life they represent is a Tim who doesn't need a living family, and by and large Tim in TT (and in the Eternals) was written as a totally free and emancipated minor, with his parents only appearing to be a hostage fake out. Even the literally emancipated minor of the Red Robin solo had a stronger connection to his "normal life" than this guy. They seemed to view it as just a tertiary distinguishing feature on a Robin they wanted to just fit the normal archetype of "Teen Titans's Robin." There's a reason why TEC didn't feel the need to focus on his family's reaction here; the time and energy was better spent focusing on the cast of the book reacting to his death, who have actually been developed as characters, rather than the almost total cypher a Jack Drake and his wife are. They may make an appearance later so that Steph can feel more pain at their loss, but if they don't, is anyone really going to miss this iteration of these characters?

I really hope they get an overhaul when Tim comes back, and that the whole family's history is about to change. I think there is a way to have the cake-and-eat-it-too scenario editorial wants, with Tim both having his family alive and important but also being able to treat Tim as a largely autonomous hero like in his last solo. Have Tim constantly and utterly worried about his family's safety, maybe justify it by having Jack Drake suffering from some injuries from a badguy's attack, and introduce an arc where his mother and father try desperately to get him to physically see them again. Then admit that Tim should really be an 18 year old by now and capable of living on his own. Change the origin so that Tim wasn't the idiot who got his family in trouble, and make him dedicated to ending the threat against their lives. Bada-Bing-bam-boom, you've got a Tim who's motivated and constantly connected to his parents and the natural life they represent, but you've also got a scenario where he operates apart from them.

That would go a long way toward fixing his character I think. I'd really like to see them give Tim enough leeway that he can be living on his own and doing his own thing as young adults do but still have his parents around for him to interact with. I'd keep the closeness they seem to have had in this iteration as well. I really liked that aspect of his N52 origin even though I didn't care for the rest of it at all.

[MajorHoy]

The problem with Tim's parents being alive / at all active in his life is that he wouldn't have originally been able to become Robin if they were so involved. Pre-Flashpoint, they were alive but constantly away for extended periods, so without as much supervision he had more freedom to do what he did and become Robin. When his father became ill and was at home more, it started interfering with that, causing Tim to have to sneak out of the house to become Robin.

That's why killing off Tim's dad in Identity Crisis benefitted Robin: it removed that problem (though it did amp up Tim's angst level). That's why Bambi's mother died, and so many other children in literature were orphaned.

[Buried Alien]

The problem with Tim's parents being alive / at all active in his life is that he wouldn't have originally been able to become Robin if they were so involved. Pre-Flashpoint, they were alive but constantly away for extended periods, so without as much supervision he had more freedom to do what he did and become Robin. When his father became ill and was at home more, it started interfering with that, causing Tim to have to sneak out of the house to become Robin.

That's why killing off Tim's dad in Identity Crisis benefitted Robin: it removed that problem (though it did amp up Tim's angst level). That's why Bambi's mother died, and so many other children in literature were orphaned.

I didn't feel that Jack Drake's presence in Tim's life during his earlier years as Robin was a hindrance to storytelling (though it was to Tim's activities as Robin): it actually created a distinct new storytelling element to Robin's life that had not been applicable to Dick Grayson or Jason Todd.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[godisawesome]

I agree with pretty much everything you said. But even as bad as this run of TT was, my point is that what happened in the final issue was pretty believable given what we have seen from everyone(the characters) leading to that point.

I was just trying to point out how some readers refuse to hold any of the dramatic moments of Teen Titans seriously because of how arbitrary and insane its plotting got. I think if they'd had more stories like the Mystery Island one, people might think they were that close. But there was hardly ever any downtime, and it kept on being sabotaged by Tim going evil, or half the team being evil doppelganagers, or having an arc end with a Villain Sue like Harvest show up to carry out editorial's edicts. A lot of the book's attempts at establishing a tight companionship between ten cats feel like empty lip-service when they never learned enough about each other to spot multiple evil versions (seriously, Jon Kent, Raven, Bar Torr, and Tim were all against the team in volume one, Manchester Black was the most obviously evil patron of all time), realize that Superboy was a weapon perfectly capable of killing innocent people, and at time s never seemed to develop full personalities.

Plus, trying to see a Titans funeral for Tim without Kon and Bart (Bar Torr doesn't count) is just a bad idea. And Beast Boy's comments on the other Robins just points out that his knowledge is currently the result of poor New 52 writing requiring retcons to perhaps bring BB knowledge he may have of Dick, and I still don't know where he got info on Damian at all. It feels like a manufactured moment that only exacerbates complaints about the rest of the volumes.

[Atlanta96]

I didn't feel that Jack Drake's presence in Tim's life during his earlier years as Robin was a hindrance to storytelling (though it was to Tim's activities as Robin): it actually created a distinct new storytelling element to Robin's life that had not been applicable to Dick Grayson or Jason Todd.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I don't disagree with that, but as long as the New 52 parents are his real parents we'll be pretty much stuck with the revised origin. So I think it's best to reveal his actual parents were dead the whole time and the living ones are imposters, and that his superhero origin that he remembers is an alteration of what actually happened.

[MajorHoy]

I didn't feel that Jack Drake's presence in Tim's life during his earlier years as Robin was a hindrance to storytelling (though it was to Tim's activities as Robin): it actually created a distinct new storytelling element to Robin's life that had not been applicable to Dick Grayson or Jason Todd.

That's the main point: it was a hindrance to Tim's activities as Robin, and he wouldn't have been able to do what he did to become Robin in the first place if his parents had constantly been around at home all the time. As for Jack Drake being alive and at home so much, that would have become boring / annoying for writers (if not the readers) eventually . . . or a trope like Aunt May's health / heart condition became for Peter Parker back in the day.

[Aahz]

The problem with Tim's parents being alive / at all active in his life is that he wouldn't have originally been able to become Robin if they were so involved. Pre-Flashpoint, they were alive but constantly away for extended periods, so without as much supervision he had more freedom to do what he did and become Robin. When his father became ill and was at home more, it started interfering with that, causing Tim to have to sneak out of the house to become Robin.

That's why killing off Tim's dad in Identity Crisis benefitted Robin: it removed that problem (though it did amp up Tim's angst level). That's why Bambi's mother died, and so many other children in literature were orphaned.

Jack knew about Tim beeing Robin and was OK with it when he was killed of in Identity Crisis.

[Buried Alien]

I also believe that Jack's presence was an important reason that as Robin, Tim more often operated in the Batcave or on his own rather than nightly rooftop patrol with Batman as Dick and Jason usually had.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Lhynn]

The problem is this Tim drake as a whole being depicted and developed so differently from the original that we now find ourselves in a place that simply cant have both be the same person.

[Buried Alien]

The problem is this Tim drake as a whole being depicted and developed so differently from the original that we now find ourselves in a place that simply cant have both be the same person.

I think the best solution is to bring Tim back to his roots and scupper more recent developments that have proven generally unpopular.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Alycat]

My only problem with Tim having parents is what is the point if they don't effect the story in any way? There was that one time in Batman and Ronin eternal with Dick being suspicious but I honestly can't think of much else. He doesn't even live or visit them.

[Lhynn]

I think the best solution is to bring Tim back to his roots and scupper more recent developments that have proven generally unpopular.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Probably every Tim fan thinks this.
Yeah sure, they made nu52 Tim into a decent character in Tec, but its not Tim Drake, or even half as good.

[Atlanta96]

Probably every Tim fan thinks this.
Yeah sure, they made nu52 Tim into a decent character in Tec, but its not Tim Drake, or even half as good.

Yeah we definitely need at least some retconning to happen in order to save Tim's character. But that seems to be the direction they're headed in so I feel like I can be an optimistic Tim Drake fan right now.

[adrikito]

i think the best solution is to bring tim back to his roots and scupper more recent developments that have proven generally unpopular.

buried alien (the fastest post alive!)

i respect all the bat-story.. If this is the best for him.. Good luck, with rebirth this is not impossible.. They are doing this with almost all the characters...

[Godlike13]

How do they bring Tim back to his roots though, they're not gonna make him go back to being Robin. That genie is already out of the bottle. So at best they would probably would give us some compromised imitation of Tim going back to his roots. Like putting him back his Robin costume but with an extra 'R' on it. But even if they do that it still doesn't solve the problems of Red Robin not having any real relevance, and not really bringing something different to the table.