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  1. #751
    Mighty Member KrustyKid's Avatar
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    New-52 wise of course

  2. #752
    Blind Bastard Orujo-man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrustyKid View Post
    Are any of the Robin's lacking in anything these days? From what I can tell they're all pretty solid. And as smart as Tim has been said to be, he's been wrong more than he has been right. He's also failed more than succeed, ironically more than anyone else in the Bat Fam. Doesn't really scream OP to me, at least not anymore than any of the others who have received training from Batman.
    Yeah, actually all the Robins (or almost) are pretty completes, without lacks, true. But when the core of one character is "win by effort an intelligence to compensate" and, like you said, none of the Robins have lacks these days I see a problem in this.
    Last edited by Orujo-man; 09-19-2016 at 04:42 PM.

  3. #753
    Mighty Member KrustyKid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orujo-man View Post
    Yeah, actually all the Robins (or almost) are pretty completes, without lacks, true. But when the core of one character is "win by effort an intelligence to compensate" and, like you said, none of the Robins have lacks these days I see a problem in this.
    Exactly, I really don't see any weakness from any of the boys. They're all OP, lol. Just not to the level of Batman himself, thankfully.

  4. #754
    Astonishing Member Doctor Know's Avatar
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    Just saw the news about Drake's death. How many of us predicted this back in January/February when Rebirth was announced? Hahaha... So predictable, it's sad.

  5. #755
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Know View Post
    Just saw the news about Drake's death. How many of us predicted this back in January/February when Rebirth was announced? Hahaha... So predictable, it's sad.
    He didn't die, Doc...he's sort of...MIA/POW right now.

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  6. #756
    Astonishing Member Doctor Know's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    He didn't die, Doc...he's sort of...MIA/POW right now.

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    So, MIA like the rest of the YJ4? Where o where are B̶a̶r̶t̶ Bar Torr and Kon-El? Haha. We know where Cassie is, and we know where she won't be (on the TT for Rebirth).

  7. #757
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orujo-man View Post
    But though his past is restructured, it will not change what it is now. In the case of he recovers his memories and part of his personality, but will not lose their fighting skills or their skills as a gymnast, nor his mastery with technology and computers.

    Even if he loses his actual memories and they changes for the memories of the Old Tim, the body has their own memories, muscle memory. In fact his body is not the same of the Old Tim. He will be stronger and more skilled and flexible than the Old Tim. He only becomes a shadow of the Old Tim. And the worst, he has the same problems of now.

    Only way to do this is kill actual Tim and bring back the Old Tim.
    I was of the opinion that if they changed Tim's history, they would have no reason to keep his New 52 history, in particular his martial and acrobatic skills. I mean, if you're going to scrub the history at all, why should you respect anything that happened on a critically lampooned Teen Titans? Especially if the kind of flaws that his physical prowess OP-ness is the kids that you could quietly sweep under the table. Heck, even in TEC he displayed none of the OP capabilities in terms of fighting skills, so it's not like you're bound and restricted to follow bad writing.

    I keep thinking that if Tim's past gets an overhaul, we're not looking at something small. He's perhaps the only Batman character who really could be in for a major repackaging in Rebirth's latter half. They haven't shied away from ignoring stuff like Lobdell's early twist on Jason's origins, since the man himself just bypassed it for the tires story, and that's arguably more important to a character than his fighting skills in a badly written book. And Simone's run on Batgirl was almost stupidly low tech, with her going to a library for a computer, but now suddenly she was acting as Oracle!
    Last edited by godisawesome; 09-19-2016 at 07:05 PM.
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  8. #758

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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    OP-ness

    What's OP-ness? (I'm trying to keep my mind out of the gutter, here.)
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  9. #759
    Blind Bastard Orujo-man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    I was of the opinion that if they changed Tim's history, they would have no reason to keep his New 52 history, in particular his martial and acrobatic skills. I mean, if you're going to scrub the history at all, why should you respect anything that happened on a critically lampooned Teen Titans? Especially if the kind of flaws that his physical prowess OP-ness is the kids that you could quietly sweep under the table. Heck, even in TEC he displayed none of the OP capabilities in terms of fighting skills, so it's not like you're bound and restricted to follow bad writing.

    I keep thinking that if Tim's past gets an overhaul, we're not looking at something small. He's perhaps the only Batman character who really could be in for a major repackaging in Rebirth's latter half. They haven't shied away from ignoring stuff like Lobdell's early twist on Jason's origins, since the man himself just bypassed it for the tires story, and that's arguably more important to a character than his fighting skills in a badly written book. And Simone's run on Batgirl was almost stupidly low tech, with her going to a library for a computer, but now suddenly she was acting as Oracle!
    I see what you mean, there is nothing to lose. But I don't like the thing "We changed this and nothing has happened here".

    One thing that I don't agree with you is about the origin of Jason. Actually changing his origin don't cause any mayor impact in the character. In Both, the new52 or the new Rebirth, Jason remains an orphan street-rat kid.

    In fact, and this is already in the personal interpretation of each one, one could fit both origins because Lodbell isn't entirely specific about when Jason encounters Batman for first time in the Rebirth issue. Only speculations.

  10. #760
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Bifrost View Post
    What's OP-ness? (I'm trying to keep my mind out of the gutter, here.)
    Over-Powered....-ness. I was trying to abbreviate and made amockery fo the english language. It happens.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orujo-man View Post
    I see what you mean, there is nothing to lose. But I don't like the thing "We changed this and nothing has happened here".

    One thing that I don't agree with you is about the origin of Jason. Actually changing his origin don't cause any mayor impact in the character. In Both, the new52 or the new Rebirth, Jason remains an orphan street-rat kid.

    In fact, and this is already in the personal interpretation of each one, one could fit both origins because Lodbell isn't entirely specific about when Jason encounters Batman for first time in the Rebirth issue. Only speculations.
    Actually, I was giving some thought to why Tim, and his story in Rebirth, may end up being one of the few "on-screen" examples of a character's past being modified and retold and acknowledged in universe. If they're going to change his past, they probably want to try and dodge the consequences for the "We changed this and and nothing has happened before" dilemma you brought up. And taking Tim and making it clear that something was wrong with his personal history in Teen Titans, and maybe even the personal history of those characters like Bart and Kon who got even worse, could be acknowledged without necessarily saying "none of it happened." all the stuff in Teen Titans New 52 could have broadly happened, and the characters could acknowledge that, but also with the great big asterisk that it was the result of some major timey-wimey wibbly-wobbly stuff and doesn't fit the true version of the characters. This would be a bit like how they're treating Superman; New 52 Supes happened, but its ambiguous as to the exact nature of his relationship to the current superman and Wally West's testimony that the timeline got changed and not restarted.

    Having said all that, I see and kind of agree with what you said about Jason's origin not changing him that much. It's probably more accurate to say it change the context of his relationship with Batman instead. I kind of removes the "random recruitment" angle Lobdell was pursuing before, which makes Batman look a bit better.
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  11. #761
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orujo-man View Post
    I see what you mean, there is nothing to lose. But I don't like the thing "We changed this and nothing has happened here".

    One thing that I don't agree with you is about the origin of Jason. Actually changing his origin don't cause any mayor impact in the character. In Both, the new52 or the new Rebirth, Jason remains an orphan street-rat kid.

    In fact, and this is already in the personal interpretation of each one, one could fit both origins because Lodbell isn't entirely specific about when Jason encounters Batman for first time in the Rebirth issue. Only speculations.
    Technically the tweaking in Jason`s origin was minimal and remains true to the character. He`s either charged of a robbery he helps to foil and vouched by Leslie when Batman is aprehending him or steals tires from the "Ferrari", meets Batman and Ma Gunn and foils her thing and Batman lets him in.

    In either case what Jason shows and stands for, despite the upbringing and the need to do what he does to survive, remains exacty the same. What Batman sees in him remains the same.

    Tim`s character suffered a bigger tweak with already making him things he wasn`t before, prior to meeting Batman.

  12. #762
    Blind Bastard Orujo-man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    Over-Powered....-ness. I was trying to abbreviate and made amockery fo the english language. It happens.


    Actually, I was giving some thought to why Tim, and his story in Rebirth, may end up being one of the few "on-screen" examples of a character's past being modified and retold and acknowledged in universe. If they're going to change his past, they probably want to try and dodge the consequences for the "We changed this and and nothing has happened before" dilemma you brought up. And taking Tim and making it clear that something was wrong with his personal history in Teen Titans, and maybe even the personal history of those characters like Bart and Kon who got even worse, could be acknowledged without necessarily saying "none of it happened." all the stuff in Teen Titans New 52 could have broadly happened, and the characters could acknowledge that, but also with the great big asterisk that it was the result of some major timey-wimey wibbly-wobbly stuff and doesn't fit the true version of the characters. This would be a bit like how they're treating Superman; New 52 Supes happened, but its ambiguous as to the exact nature of his relationship to the current superman and Wally West's testimony that the timeline got changed and not restarted.

    Having said all that, I see and kind of agree with what you said about Jason's origin not changing him that much. It's probably more accurate to say it change the context of his relationship with Batman instead. I kind of removes the "random recruitment" angle Lobdell was pursuing before, which makes Batman look a bit better.
    Sorry for the misunderstanding. English is not my native language and sometimes these things happens to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aioros22 View Post
    Technically the tweaking in Jason`s origin was minimal and remains true to the character. He`s either charged of a robbery he helps to foil and vouched by Leslie when Batman is aprehending him or steals tires from the "Ferrari", meets Batman and Ma Gunn and foils her thing and Batman lets him in.

    In either case what Jason shows and stands for, despite the upbringing and the need to do what he does to survive, remains exacty the same. What Batman sees in him remains the same.

    Tim`s character suffered a bigger tweak with already making him things he wasn`t before, prior to meeting Batman.
    Yeah I know what you mean, but I was comparing with Rebirth mostly because is more or less the same as the original. At least for now.

  13. #763
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Know View Post
    So, MIA like the rest of the YJ4? Where o where are B̶a̶r̶t̶ Bar Torr and Kon-El? Haha. We know where Cassie is, and we know where she won't be (on the TT for Rebirth).
    We (the readers) also know where Tim is.
    (You would, too, if you read Detective Comics #940.)

    Now, I glanced through future-Tim's last appearance in Batman Beyond . . . does anybody know if the (apparent) disappearance of future-Tim at the end have a direct connection to what happened in Detective Comics #940?

  14. #764
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    We (the readers) also know where Tim is.
    (You would, too, if you read Detective Comics #940.)

    Now, I glanced through future-Tim's last appearance in Batman Beyond . . . does anybody know if the (apparent) disappearance of future-Tim at the end have a direct connection to what happened in Detective Comics #940?
    No one knows, but we are all guessing its related.

    What i really want to hear is more Theories on Oz role in all of this. I think he may be in a way the good guy, or at least fighting this whole thing that happened with the timeline.

  15. #765
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lhynn View Post
    What i really want to hear is more Theories on Oz role in all of this. I think he may be in a way the good guy, or at least fighting this whole thing that happened with the timeline.
    Well, he was in the DC Universe Rebirth issue (where they sort of revealed who he really is) and I know he's been playing a role in Action Comics, but not sure where else he's shown up.

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