Should The Avengers Be More Like A Coprorate Brand Or An Ideal Symbol of what A Real hero is?

[Chrysalis_Changling]

i ask because these days people say you can't really be an avenger or be considered avengers worthy if you aren't shaking hands with tony stark and the original members....

but then comes the people who think being an avenger just means being a top tier hero in the marvel universe worthy of praise and admiration it doesn't mean being attached to a big corporate logo you must represent at all times it just means the best of the best

but whose to say certain heroes aren't worthy enough to be honored in such a way?

i believe superheroes that kick plenty of ass should get just as much credit as whoever tony stark shakes hands with that week and hands a membership card

[Wiccan]

A midterm of both.

[jackolover]

Should Avengers be big or small?

It seems the OP is questioning whether the Avengers are Tony Stark. In some ways it is, because Tony is continuing the legacy of the group since its inception. However, Tony was sort of on the outer when Heroic Age began, and questioned his membership because of his differences with head honcho Steve Rogers at the time. So, Tony may be a bit loosely attach to the Avengers logo, considering his role in Illuminati's planet busting, and his Inversion episode.

As for big or small, the big Avengers as a corporate brand became established a long time ago, and members were invited by the current leadership. That's how the system has been for a long time.

This situation with the splitting up of Avengers into AI, Mighty, New, main team, Dark, Academy, Assemble, and now USAvengers, Champions, and Occupy? All this is showing is that the brand is now splintered into an uncoordinated mess, that associates itself with the brand very loosely these days. Does anybody think the Avengers 3 or 4 groups are under the same umbrella anymore? I doubt it. I think the idea just survives, and, people like to call themselves that, but the real Avengers? Not sure it's a franchise, a real team anymore, or just capilatising in the brand. Where are the honourable Thor, Iron Man, and Captain America Steve Rogers? That used to constitute an Avengers Team.

There used to be a mission embraced by good minded and heroic people, who formed up to meet a threat no single person could meet. The 3 or 4 teams that exist now, or are going to exist, just seem to exist because... There seem to be too many options. I would want a single Main Avengers, unfunded by government, and a loosely held membership, and whoever shows up is the Team. A can't remember any of the original team saying, "you have to pass an exam before you are on the team".

[Mary Jay]

Hm. I voted before I read the original post. Now I'm not actually sure what I voted for.

Being an Avenger used to mean a lot more than it does today IMO. I agree with Jackolover. The spirit of what once was the Avengers seems to be diluted into so many teams, that sometimes barely tie in to the original goals and principles of the Avengers, the way they were formed.

I personally don't like the fact that there are so many teams that it becomes the norm to be an Avenger, that as soon as you show some sort of power you get to become an Avenger sooner than later. I like the fact that there are independent heroes going around. Deadpool, Wolverine, Spiderman should never have become Avengers. I'm not saying this to belittle them in any way. They're good characters (well, I don't like Deadpool but I know a lot of people do so he must be good) but it doesn't mean they belong on a team.

So to develop on the original post, no, people shouldn't become Avengers just because Tony Stark said so. It should be a process in which the current members recruit new members through vote and consultation. I don't think the two choices in the poll exclude each other.

[jackolover]

What this brings to mind is how many super heroes are in the 616. Just this issue of Spiderman # 6, Miles mother complains what a completely bizarre world they are in. The pressure to incorporate super people into teams is enormous now with so many, that it becomes natural to place as many into teams as can fit.

I didn't ever want to say this, but putting Initiative teams in each state may have been the right way to go.

[Chrysalis_Changling]

does texas even have any active superheroes right now Post SW?

[itspopularnowitsucks]

In my opinion, any group of heroes who came together to fight threat no single one of them can withstand, and then decided to form a formal organization and call themselves Avengers, should be considered "real" Avengers, which would include Luke Cage's Mighty Avengers, whom (Superior) Tony Stark accused of stealing the brand (and the lawyers trudged on in his absence), as well as Sunspot's New Avengers, whom (Hydra) Captain America disapproved.

[Pat Thomas]

Should Avengers be big or small?

It seems the OP is questioning whether the Avengers are Tony Stark. In some ways it is, because Tony is continuing the legacy of the group since its inception. However, Tony was sort of on the outer when Heroic Age began, and questioned his membership because of his differences with head honcho Steve Rogers at the time. So, Tony may be a bit loosely attach to the Avengers logo, considering his role in Illuminati's planet busting, and his Inversion episode.

As for big or small, the big Avengers as a corporate brand became established a long time ago, and members were invited by the current leadership. That's how the system has been for a long time.

This situation with the splitting up of Avengers into AI, Mighty, New, main team, Dark, Academy, Assemble, and now USAvengers, Champions, and Occupy? All this is showing is that the brand is now splintered into an uncoordinated mess, that associates itself with the brand very loosely these days. Does anybody think the Avengers 3 or 4 groups are under the same umbrella anymore? I doubt it. I think the idea just survives, and, people like to call themselves that, but the real Avengers? Not sure it's a franchise, a real team anymore, or just capilatising in the brand. Where are the honourable Thor, Iron Man, and Captain America Steve Rogers? That used to constitute an Avengers Team.

There used to be a mission embraced by good minded and heroic people, who formed up to meet a threat no single person could meet. The 3 or 4 teams that exist now, or are going to exist, just seem to exist because... There seem to be too many options. I would want a single Main Avengers, unfunded by government, and a loosely held membership, and whoever shows up is the Team. A can't remember any of the original team saying, "you have to pass an exam before you are on the team".

Back before they started letting in any hero who wanted to join, they could nominate somebody and they would vote. When Spider-Man wanted to join, they made him go capture
the Hulk as an initiation test. The Swordsman also had to go through probation during his final tenure with the team. I'm pretty sure they only officially made him an Avenger after
he'd been killed.

[Icefalcon]

I think there are just too many Avengers teams at the moment. There has always been minor heroes and those who can't hold down their own titles on the team but usually you get a couple mainstays, usually Cap and AN Other. That worked for a long time why can it still not work now?

[chamber-music]

The Avengers used to be a superhero club that heroes joined. They had charters, regulations and longstanding members gave heroes the ok to join.

The Avengers now is more like a franchise. Any group of heroes can come together and call themselves Avengers.

[Knives]

To me they look more like government hound dogs in recent years than heroes at least half of them.

[Matternativ]

Corporate Brand of course.
Avengers is a name. A name of a certain Team. It doesn't matter how idealistic the team is or isn't or how much the roster changes.

Let me put it that way: Metallica is Metallica. They changed their style but they are still Metallica. If they had switched out James Hetfield somewhere along the way they would still be Metallica. They haven't released an Album in years but they are still Metallica. They inspired generations worth of Metal Bands but none of them will ever be Metallica. Doesn't matter if they are better, equal or worse than Metallica, they just won't. They are their own Bands on their own terms with their own music.
Most of them have much more in common with the spirit of older Metallica Albums than Metallica themselves have in common with their older works but they are still Metallica (notice a pattern?)

Thus I consider most Avengers Teams right now not actual Avengers teams. I think apart from ANAD Avengers and Uncanny Avengers the others just shouldn't be named as such.
The new Avengers for example have no ties to the main team, yes Barton was an Avengers Mainstay for decades but that doesn't matter.
To return to my Metallica-example: Dave Mustaine was part of Metallica. So was Jason Newsted but both are in different Bands now and those Bands aren't called All New All Different Metallica or Secret Metallica

[Vic Vega]

Corporate Brand of course.
Avengers is a name. A name of a certain Team. It doesn't matter how idealistic the team is or isn't or how much the roster changes.

Let me put it that way: Metallica is Metallica. They changed their style but they are still Metallica. If they had switched out James Hetfield somewhere along the way they would still be Metallica. They haven't released an Album in years but they are still Metallica. They inspired generations worth of Metal Bands but none of them will ever be Metallica. Doesn't matter if they are better, equal or worse than Metallica, they just won't. They are their own Bands on their own terms with their own music.
Most of them have much more in common with the spirit of older Metallica Albums than Metallica themselves have in common with their older works but they are still Metallica (notice a pattern?)

Thus I consider most Avengers Teams right now not actual Avengers teams. I think apart from ANAD Avengers and Uncanny Avengers the others just shouldn't be named as such.
The new Avengers for example have no ties to the main team, yes Barton was an Avengers Mainstay for decades but that doesn't matter.
To return to my Metallica-example: Dave Mustaine was part of Metallica. So was Jason Newsted but both are in different Bands now and those Bands aren't called All New All Different Metallica or Secret Metallica

The idea of there even being a Secret Metallica just cracks me up.

Thanks

[Moral_Gutpunch]

They can easily be both with the right contract. Why can't a symbol be someone who gets money?

[Nick Miller]

I think both too.

I Wish they would go back to 6 tight books,

Avengers
New avengers
Young avengers
Secret avengers
Avengers initiative
Cosmic Avengers