New Champions Appreciation 2018

[J. D. Guy]

Is it gonna deal with a real-life shooting adapted into the MU or or is it gonna get dark and have Miles' school be the victim of a shooting?



If you're JUST now getting mad at how Champions is "disregarding escapism", I'll have to redirect you to issue #1. The one with the Champions stopping an underage sex trafficking ring.

Yeah, that comment was unwarranted. Like I said, this is the kind of thing that the Champions stand against as part of their overall credo.

[Kintor]

If you're JUST now getting mad at how Champions is "disregarding escapism", I'll have to redirect you to issue #1. The one with the Champions stopping an underage sex trafficking ring.

The problem with #24 is that Marvel is forgetting a fundamental rule of entertainment - know your audience. Most American readers would agree that sex trafficking is wrong but the same can't be said for gun control. The debate around the restriction of guns is by far the most contentious in the media today, a Marvel comic about a school shooting is just as likely to anger and repulse readers as it is to earn their praise. With this Champions ceases to be an entertaining comic book and just becomes thinly-veiled political messaging.

[responsarbre]

The problem with #24 is that Marvel is forgetting a fundamental rule of entertainment - know your audience. Most American readers would agree that sex trafficking is wrong but the same can't be said for gun control. The debate around the restriction of guns is by far the most contentious in the media today, a Marvel comic about a school shooting is just as likely to anger and repulse readers as it is to earn their praise. With this Champions ceases to be an entertaining comic book and just becomes thinly-veiled political messaging.

Marvel's all about showing "the world outside your window." They had Doctor Doom crying about 9/11, and they published at least four different miniseries about first responders in New York City afterwards. They published a miniseries about real-life terrorism, where people like Chuck Austen and Mark Millar wrote about their takes on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and North Irish terrorism (two issues that are definitely likely to anger and repulse readers).

In the early 70s, practically every other comic touched on hot-button issues. All the female superheroes talked about Women's Liberation, which led to a lot of angry readers writing in about how Marvel shouldn't turn characters into feminists (and just as many readers who wrote in pleased at the way Marvel heroes were keeping up with the times). Captain America fought President Nixon. Heroes fought corrupt politicians that enabled growing poverty, corporations that were hurting the environment, and racism. And yes, they had more than one PSA.

Go back to WW2, and you'll find Captain America actively campaigning for the US to enter a war that it wasn't yet a part of. (A very divisive issue in its time, with a certain fraction of Americans who even supported the Axis at the time.)

You're more than entitled to dislike that stuff in your comics, but it's not really that surprising. And I think you're assuming a bit much about the content of the issue. Who's to say it'll have a clear-cut stance on gun control, or even address the topic at all? We don't know that yet. We do know that everyone can agree that school shootings are wrong.

[Frontier]

I at least expect Zub will be able to handle such a major social issue a little more tastefully and adeptly then Waid would have.

[Flashback]

I have to ask Kintor with no disrespect but have you just started reading Champions? or have you been reading it from the beginning?

I know what you're saying, gun control is still a big issue to talk about, especially in the states and yeah in some series it wouldn't make sense to talk about it but in a series like "Champions" I feel that most fans or readers of the comic won't be too offended but who knows ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Also about what you said, that #24 would be the most "memorable issue of Champions entire run" again I really feel like your giving it too much importance...not to say that it probably won't be a good issue but...

(Hell, do you remember the issue that batman did about gun control?)

[Kintor]

Marvel's all about showing "the world outside your window." They had Doctor Doom crying about 9/11, and they published at least four different miniseries about first responders in New York City afterwards. They published a miniseries about real-life terrorism, where people like Chuck Austen and Mark Millar wrote about their takes on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and North Irish terrorism (two issues that are definitely likely to anger and repulse readers).

I think as though modern Marvel has been misinterpreting this mission statement lately to justify some truly god awful stories. Super hero comics have always been more 'hyper-real' then real, where you have eccentric vigilantes in brightly coloured uniforms super-imposed over contemporary society. It adds a certain air of the absurd to even the darkest story, which is why Marvel must tread carefully whenever they recklessly try to tackle hot-button social issues.

That image of Doom, Magneto, the Juggernaut, Dr Octopus and the Kingpin at ground zero is rightly derided as one of the most tone-deaf and misguided pages that Marvel has ever put to print. But Marvel is not a company that quickly learns from its mistakes, with the Champions now being the latest misadventure into the evening news. At best #24 is going to be good riff material on YouTube but it won’t have the desired political impact.

[Digifiend]

Which means that updated armor of Riri's did not make it to the Iron Man creative team in time for the illustrating of the issue.

Or worse, they didn't know it was changing at all. Spider-Man 239 and 240 has a related mistake, that being that Cyclops was with the team instead of Wasp and Snowguard. Likewise though, they may not have known about Zub's lineup changes (Bendis would've known this was where Riri would end up, so she did get included).

I wonder what UK mag Mighty World of Marvel will do when they eventually get to Champions #24 (it's currently up to issue 10, so roughly a year behind, though I guess #13-15 will be in Avengers Universe instead)? Gun control isn't an issue here, not since the Dunblane massacre.

[J. D. Guy]

I at least expect Zub will be able to handle such a major social issue a little more tastefully and adeptly then Waid would have.

That unnecessary Waid put-down, though.

[Tofali]

That unnecessary Waid put-down, though.

Is it a put down thou? I found Waid cringey, he made me drop the book in issue three when the team went to an ardu speaking nation so that they could rescue girls/women from fundamentalist then leave them as if it is that easy.

[Grimm911]

Here's another beautiful panel from the upcoming issue #24 of Champions

Pencils by Sean Izaakse

Colors by Marcio Menyz

IMG_3804.jpg

[Frontier]

That unnecessary Waid put-down, though.

I didn't mean to put-down Waid. He's one of my favorite comic writers, and I think he had the best of intentions when it came to the idea behind the Champions.

I'm just not sure he was the right choice to convey said intentions, and I liked his run for the most part.

[mreddie]

Comapred to Waid, Zub's run is already superior with the 5 issues with the Infinity tie ins.

[J. D. Guy]

I didn't mean to put-down Waid. He's one of my favorite comic writers, and I think he had the best of intentions when it came to the idea behind the Champions.

I'm just not sure he was the right choice to convey said intentions, and I liked his run for the most part.

It's just this thread's starting to take another slow south turn. And I liked Waid's run more than well enough, and he got me into the book in the first place and lasted 18 issues where other books I enjoyed didn't make it past 4-6, so, at least on my end, he deserves respect for that.

[MarvelFan91]

The problem with #24 is that Marvel is forgetting a fundamental rule of entertainment - know your audience. Most American readers would agree that sex trafficking is wrong but the same can't be said for gun control. The debate around the restriction of guns is by far the most contentious in the media today, a Marvel comic about a school shooting is just as likely to anger and repulse readers as it is to earn their praise. With this Champions ceases to be an entertaining comic book and just becomes thinly-veiled political messaging.

Superhero books have always been political. Film at 11. For pete's sake, what do you call Captain American punching Hitler then?

[Kintor]

Superhero books have always been political. Film at 11. For pete's sake, what do you call Captain American punching Hitler then?

That iconic image of Captain America punching Hitler in the face is goofy as hell. Today it's more meme-worthy than anything else, not the biting social commentary you're searching for.