New Champions Appreciation 2018

[leo619]

That concept isn't actually bad because I could see how a team like that could be created. There are real concerns about how heroes are operating in universe that could be addressed and lead to some interesting stories. The monopolization of superheroics by SHIELD, overzealous heroes "fixing" things that lead to conflict (see Civil War I and II, World War Hulk), and some incredibly flawed leaders who exercise too much control over the broader hero community (Tony, Carol). Those are legit criticisms to be made of how heroes do business and I could see how young heroes want to turn away from all that and be more interested in social justice. You know, actually helping people on the ground and taking out real problems.

However, truly being socially active requires an intimate relationship with the people and area you're affecting and a dialogue more or less. That's hard to do when you're globetrotting heroes going from one side of the Earth to knock out terrorists then another side to take out some supremacists. Being grassroots for these heroes is hard because their so disembodied from normal people while their doing their actual hero work. Social justice in this book should be more than just knocking out easy targets like religious extremists or racists.

The concept would've been better if they actually had a base somewhere where social justice could be applied and they did more than beat up bad guys. A place where they could help people in one area, grow to understand it and their role in helping make it a better place. Then they could expand from there. They should be meeting with community leaders and facing what it really means to be "for the people". Hulk could meet the people whose property he destroys in every battle, Viv tries to carve out a respectable social media presence for the group and deals with online bullying or something. I mean, them being embedded somewhere and actually being activists opens up new stories for them and differentiates them from other groups.

Agreed, to be honest, a "woke" avengers would be an ingenious idea for a slew of reasons.

1) It's more likely that those who are "woke" are usually younger, and are more willing to change and advance social dynamics. Studies show that older individuals are more conservative and more resistant to change.

2) When Youth actually do participate in change, it's essentially the biggest demo graphical group that can influence society. Of course, the biggest problem is motivating youth to begin with. So they're always the sleeping giant.


So the champions would have been a perfect candidate to represent that gross root motivation. So the problem wasn't the idea, the problem was the execution. That's why I said a better writer for a "woke" avengers would have been spencer IMO, his Captain America Sam Wilson book was one of the best woke books of recent times.

[PSJ]

well the old Champions are meeting each other again dont know if i should post this here

[Digifiend]

Yeah, in Iceman's solo. And well, this is the NEW Champions appreciation thread, but there doesn't seem to be one for the old Champions...

[PaxHouse]

Yeah, in Iceman's solo. And well, this is the NEW Champions appreciation thread, but there doesn't seem to be one for the old Champions...

True.....but you can always settle for the BLACK WIDOW Appreciation Thread, the Iceman Appreciation Thread, the Hercules Appreciation Thread, the Johnny Blaze/Ghost Rider Appreciation Thread, Warrant Worthington/ArchAngel Appreciation Thread and Darkstar Appreciation Thread........

Good luck....

[Digifiend]

All of the modern Champions also have solo appreciation threads.

[FantasticVision]

Here's an interview Waid did about the Champions/Avengers crossover:
https://www.newsarama.com/35254-inev...-showdown.html

It seems they're doing the only story I don't trust them with. They might shove in some conflict around Vision's actions in Uncanny Avengers ages ago, but that was so OOC it's barely canon. I guess it could end with Vision and Viv hugging it out and getting some therapy finally, but Waid does love to make poor Vision an antagonist, and anyway the only person I trust with Vision fallout is Tom King, who's not coming back for a long while.

Coupled with those rumours about the Champions turning into a team led by America Chavez with every member except Viv, I'm pretty worried right now. I just want my faves to not be ruined.

[PSJ]

Here's an interview Waid did about the Champions/Avengers crossover:
https://www.newsarama.com/35254-inev...-showdown.html

It seems they're doing the only story I don't trust them with. They might shove in some conflict around Vision's actions in Uncanny Avengers ages ago, but that was so OOC it's barely canon. I guess it could end with Vision and Viv hugging it out and getting some therapy finally, but Waid does love to make poor Vision an antagonist, and anyway the only person I trust with Vision fallout is Tom King, who's not coming back for a long while.

Coupled with those rumours about the Champions turning into a team led by America Chavez with every member except Viv, I'm pretty worried right now. I just want my faves to not be ruined.

why are they forcing America chavez on the team? can they just not bring back the Young avengers?

Edit: where you hear this rumor of this?

[FantasticVision]

why are they forcing America chavez on the team? can they just not bring back the Young avengers?

Edit: where you hear this rumor of this?

I mean, it is probably nothing, it was from 4chan after all, but I think Waid's done enough damage by not capitalising on The Vision solo that future writers would see Viv as too boring to write for. Waid just writes her as mini-Vision but a girl (and possibly gay or ace but that's been addressed twice in 10 issues so), and Marvel writers hate Vision, to my eternal frustration. I think even if they aren't led by America, it's a valid concern.

The rumour suggested they'd be led by America after her solo got cancelled, but I still don't see why they wouldn't just bring the YA back. Maybe they're worried it would outsell Champions so they'd use America's popularity for better sales? Sales on this book are pretty bad right now, or at least not as much as would be expected for a flagship book they're pushing that has Ms Marvel and Miles on it.

[PSJ]

I mean, it is probably nothing, it was from 4chan after all, but I think Waid's done enough damage that future writers would see Viv as too boring to write for. Waid just writes her as mini-Vision but a girl (and possibly gay or ace but that's been addressed twice in 10 issues so), and Marvel hates Vision, to my eternal frustration. I think even if they aren't led by America, it's a valid concern.

The rumour suggested they'd be led by America after her solo got cancelled, but I still don't see why they wouldn't just bring the YA back. Maybe they're worried it would outsell Champions so they'd use America's popularity for better sales? Sales on this book are pretty bad right now, or at least not as much as would be expected for a flagship book they're pushing that has Ms Marvel and Miles on it.

you should mean they try to get America popular again... her book is poorly written i want the YA America back but we will never get her

[Sprite]

Given her solo's poor reception, potentially adding Chavez to the team (especially as leader) probably wouldn't be a good idea right now. I can understand not wanting to bring back the YA to overshadow the Champions, but people might see MAC and turn the other way thinking it'll be like her book. That said, 4chan rumors are pretty finicky to begin with.

[PSJ]

I mean, it is probably nothing, it was from 4chan after all, but I think Waid's done enough damage by not capitalising on The Vision solo that future writers would see Viv as too boring to write for. Waid just writes her as mini-Vision but a girl (and possibly gay or ace but that's been addressed twice in 10 issues so), and Marvel writers hate Vision, to my eternal frustration. I think even if they aren't led by America, it's a valid concern.

The rumour suggested they'd be led by America after her solo got cancelled, but I still don't see why they wouldn't just bring the YA back. Maybe they're worried it would outsell Champions so they'd use America's popularity for better sales? Sales on this book are pretty bad right now, or at least not as much as would be expected for a flagship book they're pushing that has Ms Marvel and Miles on it.

Just saw the rumor you were talking about they said she might be placed on the Avengers and be made leader

[PSJ]

Given her solo's poor reception, potentially adding Chavez to the team (especially as leader) probably wouldn't be a good idea right now. I can understand not wanting to bring back the YA to overshadow the Champions, but people might see MAC and turn the other way thinking it'll be like her book. That said, 4chan rumors are pretty finicky to begin with.

YA overall is better then what the Champions are right now i still dont know why they ended that book. i enjoy the champions because of the big three on the team mainly miles.

[Digifiend]

Just saw the rumor you were talking about they said she might be placed on the Avengers and be made leader

That happened months ago - it was the Ultimates, not the Avengers or the Champions!

[PSJ]

That happened months ago - it was the Ultimates, not the Avengers or the Champions!

this is a recent rumor...saying marvel wants to push America as the lead Female over marvel because the push for carol is not working

[FantasticVision]

Actually the new one I saw was that they're relaunching Ultimates for all the legacy characters as an imprint.

So Miles becomes Ultimate Spider-Man again, Riri becomes Ultimate Ironheart and all that, and the Champions become the Ultimates, led by America Chavez with Riri and Nadia (and maybe Patriot) but minus for some reason Viv. Hence why I'm worried about the crossover, because she might die at the end of it.

The only way I'd accept her not being part of the team is if she gets out of the hero game entirely to become a civilian who occasionally appears (maybe as a form of Mission Control?) in whatever Avengers title Vision ends up in - the rumours suggested a more classic book written by Aaron.