New Champions Appreciation 2018

[Hypestyle]

what are bombshell's powers? what is her origin?

[Digifiend]

Bombshell is an Ultimate Universe mutant who was displaced to 616 alongside Miles after Secret Wars. Her powerset is the ability to create sonic shockwaves or explosions.

I'm glad to see I wasn't the only one noticed that. Both Rayshaun and Dante were totally absent from those comics. I, too, wonder what the underlying reason for that was?

Dante was NOT absent from those comics. They starred Squirrel Girl, Ms Marvel, Ms America and Inferno. The heroes missing were Ghost Spider, Quake, Lockjaw, Captain Marvel, and Patriot.

[Frontier]

Although they took it slow with Joaquin's character and intro (because of everything else going on in the story and also because then no one could claim they "shoved Joaquin down their throats" or somesuch usual complaint), both he and Sam did get the chance to develop a relationship and dynamic during Spencer's run. The thing was, they developed a dynamic of grateful, starstruck and eager mentee on Joaquin's side and a reluctant mentor on Sam's side that eventually evolved into a strained relationship when Sam's flaky mentorship combined with his choices that Joaquin gradually grew critical of eventually led to the latter becoming emotionally fed up and exhausted of the former. The logical conclusion transpired and Joaquin broke away from Sam when Sam broke away from being Captain America.

I'm not saying they didn't have any kind of dynamic or relationship, but it didn't feel very well-developed or meaningful, especially when it was a dynamic that kind of hinged on the lack of a connection and relationship between the two characters.

I really don't know why everyone, who ostensibly read the run, seems to have come away with the idea that little to nothing every happened between Sam and Joaquin during that time, as that really wasn't the case. It wasn't the happiest of progressions, sure, but it was still a relationship and a dynamic between the two that isn't acknowledged and treated as non-existent. And granted, the climax of the Secret Empire event's entire existence meant that Joaquin and Sam didn't get the continuation they would have by Spencer, but that did not erase what Spencer did do with both characters together beforehand.

I think it's because it was a relationship and dynamic that existed, but not one that seemed to have a considerable effect or importance to Sam compared to his other relationships in the book.

As I mentioned above, the bold isn't really the case. It may have seemed that way because their relationship and dynamic that Spencer did establish wasn't a totally healthy one and in turn evolved logically thus. This is why Joaquin grew close to Rage in the first place (not so much D-Man; that was more Joaquin being a fan of D-Man's wrestling side when that came to light, and the two never really interacted beyond that point, and in fact started out poorly, since D-Man was post-transformation-pre-Falcon Joaquin's guardian and Joaquin didn't care for that), because Joaquin's relationship and dynamic with Sam was such that Joaquin began gravitating towards Rage because their relationship and dynamic that grew and was established was more fulfilling to Joaquin compared to his with Sam by that point, which was deep on Joaquin's end but reluctant on Sam's, leading to the former's disillusionment.

You kind of make my point for me here by saying how their relationship wasn't necesarilly the best and that led to Joaquin gravitating twoards other characters. That speaks to me to his relationship with Sam just not being very meaningful or close where it counts, or that they had a good mentor/protege dynamic.

Point is, to say time wasn't spent developing any mentor/protege dynamic/relationship is to ignore or reduce what Spencer did do and what was there. And again, even though Barnes wrote Sam and Rayshaun with a more straightforwardly positive and overall healthier dynamic and relationship (because Sam at the point had grown past being a reluctant mentor), making it seem like they did more or were "more relevant" or something, that doesn't mean Sam and Joaquin did not have a dynamic or a relationship with each other during Spencer's run and that that relationship and dynamic was irrelevant.

And I think my problem is is that there just wasn't much there when it came to Sam and Joaquin, compared to their other relationships in that book.

[J. D. Guy]

Dante was NOT absent from those comics. They starred Squirrel Girl, Ms Marvel, Ms America and Inferno. The heroes missing were Ghost Spider, Quake, Lockjaw, Captain Marvel, and Patriot.

I didn't mean the Secret Warriors comic, I read that and definitely knew they were in there. I (and presumably skyvolt2000) was referring to those Marvel Rising series of one-shots that only starred Squirrel Girl and Ms. Marvel (and a new villainess, I think), and that's it.

[Digifiend]

No no no! That comic did add Inferno and America a couple of issues in! The previous Secret Warriors comic has nothing to do with Rising at all!

Also, Emulator's not really a villain - she was being manipulated by Arcade.

[J. D. Guy]

I'm not saying they didn't have any kind of dynamic or relationship, but it didn't feel very well-developed or meaningful, especially when it was a dynamic that kind of hinged on the lack of a connection and relationship between the two characters.


I think it's because it was a relationship and dynamic that existed, but not one that seemed to have a considerable effect or importance to Sam compared to his other relationships in the book.

You kind of make my point for me here by saying how their relationship wasn't necesarilly the best and that led to Joaquin gravitating twoards other characters. That speaks to me to his relationship with Sam just not being very meaningful or close where it counts, or that they had a good mentor/protege dynamic.

And I think my problem is is that there just wasn't much there when it came to Sam and Joaquin, compared to their other relationships in that book.

This is more or less what I was contesting in the first place (and the notion that was nonexistent or might as well not have been), the idea that it wasn't well developed or meaningful (whatever that means) or similar. It wouldn't have had the same impact if it was done differently, not to mention require shuffling the story around/eclipsing it (something what totally would have gotten the stink-eye if they did). It's kind of a two-front thing, but as it was presented, it worked.

That their relationship wasn't as fulfilling on Joaquin's end was kind of the point, because it was part of the emphasis on the events that were weighing Sam down that led to him giving up being Captain America. Sam was just not at his best as that story progressed, and it was reflected in his choices and relationships (and not just with Joaquin, either; all his relationships/dynamics suffered).

[J. D. Guy]

No no no! That comic did add Inferno and America a couple of issues in! The previous Secret Warriors comic has nothing to do with Rising at all!

Also, Emulator's not really a villain - she was being manipulated by Arcade.

It did? I guess that shows what I know about it (I haven't read it, mostly because I was kinda sitting on the idea and maybe wanted to read it in a collection format). Was it just me, or did it seem like there was no advertising/showcasing on covers and such of anyone other than Squirrel Girl and Ms. Marvel? Because that's where the impression came from and why it felt so off compared to that initial reveal of the whole concept.

I was aware that the new girl, Emulation, wasn't "truly evil", but she did function as the villain/antagonist/person whom the leads had to deal with in the open throughout most of it, or at least the beginning and middle acts, as far as I am aware of, correct?

[Tantalus]

My Nova commission made by Daniel HDR.
4A448D13-6315-4415-8161-54430DA0A8BE.jpg

[Personamanx]

My Nova commission made by Daniel HDR.
4A448D13-6315-4415-8161-54430DA0A8BE.jpg

That's awesome, how much did it set you back? He's definitely on the list of artists I want sketches/commissions from.

[Vak]

My Nova commission made by Daniel HDR.
4A448D13-6315-4415-8161-54430DA0A8BE.jpg

Excellent!!!

[Digifiend]

It did? I guess that shows what I know about it (I haven't read it, mostly because I was kinda sitting on the idea and maybe wanted to read it in a collection format). Was it just me, or did it seem like there was no advertising/showcasing on covers and such of anyone other than Squirrel Girl and Ms. Marvel? Because that's where the impression came from and why it felt so off compared to that initial reveal of the whole concept.

I was aware that the new girl, Emulation, wasn't "truly evil", but she did function as the villain/antagonist/person whom the leads had to deal with in the open throughout most of it, or at least the beginning and middle acts, as far as I am aware of, correct?

You're right about the lack of promotion. The only cover America and Inferno was on was a variant showing the TV designs, on an issue they weren't even in! And yeah, Arcade's involvement was a plot twist later on, it did look like Emulator was a villain at first, but the story ended with her having to be rescued, and then dropped off in New Attilan.

The covers were done by Gurihiru though, who didn't draw the interiors, so maybe they didn't know that America and Dante were involved?

Changing the subject, I wonder if we'll hear anything about the Champions at NYCC?

[Tantalus]

That's awesome, how much did it set you back? He's definitely on the list of artists I want sketches/commissions from.

I got this commission on a convention in my city, and he charged me only 80 reais (approximately 20 dollars). Yeah, pretty cheap. I'm actually gonna see him again at the end of the year at São Paulo's Comic Con and try to get at least 2 more commissions from him.

[Personamanx]

I got this commission on a convention in my city, and he charged me only 80 reais (approximately 20 dollars). Yeah, pretty cheap. I'm actually gonna see him again at the end of the year at São Paulo's Comic Con and try to get at least 2 more commissions from him.

That is a fantastic deal. If he ever comes to one of the shows we have in my parts I'd hop on that in a hot minute. Usually you only get pieces that nice for that little from talented unknowns, but Daniel HDR is just shy of a legend to some.

Get as many pieces from him as you can!

[Digifiend]

If we're getting any news from NYCC, it'll be soon - Zub's involved in a panel going on right now.
https://www.newsarama.com/42238-nycc...big-thing.html

Young Avengers is coming back by the way, so the Champions now have competition for potential new recruits.

[Tantalus]

If we're getting any news from NYCC, it'll be soon - Zub's involved in a panel going on right now.
https://www.newsarama.com/42238-nycc...big-thing.html

Young Avengers is coming back by the way, so the Champions now have competition for potential new recruits.

I don’t think that’s good news at all for the Champions. For how long have the Young Avengers been gone?